Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[LannTheStupid]

Also, some solo persuasion checks can be mitigated by alignment.

 

[Absinthe]

Other Charisma dependent classes include Scaled Fist Monk and Eldritch Scion Magus.
But like Desiderius wrote, you don't really need to focus on Charisma for anything important. 95% of the cases, you can subcontract the Persuasion/Intimidation checks to your party members. And with some buffing and equipment choices, by midgame you can pass pretty much all checks by yourself, even with rock bottom (5) Charisma.

Paladin is much better than Scaled Fist Monk and I'm not sure the Eldritch Scion Magus is advisable over playing a Sorcerer either. There is also Feyspeaker Druid, I think.

 

[Haplo]

Opinions....

 

[Desiderius]

Ironically Feyspeaker Smilodon pet could be most painless for new player just because the pet could solo the content and carry a bunch of loot.

 

[Yosharian]

Other Charisma dependent classes include Scaled Fist Monk and Eldritch Scion Magus.
But like Desiderius wrote, you don't really need to focus on Charisma for anything important. 95% of the cases, you can subcontract the Persuasion/Intimidation checks to your party members. And with some buffing and equipment choices, by midgame you can pass pretty much all checks by yourself, even with rock bottom (5) Charisma.

Paladin is much better than Scaled Fist Monk and I'm not sure the Eldritch Scion Magus is advisable over playing a Sorcerer either. There is also Feyspeaker Druid, I think.

Eldritch Scion is alright. Sword Saint is better. The big problem with Scion is the underwhelming bloodline implementation

 

[Desiderius]

Well thanks for the Awards, Serious_Business. I'm touched.

So, to sum up, since the Amor slot does nothing Wild Shaped might as well keep Oak's Pelt/Tiger's Stripes there for convenience's* sake if you're not using them on other toons, though their effects are powerful enough that they merit serious consideration for using them for their intended purposes.

* - Pelt keeps your Natural Armor on when in human form (regular armor wouldn't stack with the Bracers you'd always have on), Stripes gives your natural weapons +5/+5 if you use the right button which is better than you can get from items/spells before endgame and frees up amulet slot if you were using that.

 

[Desiderius]

Other Charisma dependent classes include Scaled Fist Monk and Eldritch Scion Magus.
But like Desiderius wrote, you don't really need to focus on Charisma for anything important. 95% of the cases, you can subcontract the Persuasion/Intimidation checks to your party members. And with some buffing and equipment choices, by midgame you can pass pretty much all checks by yourself, even with rock bottom (5) Charisma.

Paladin is much better than Scaled Fist Monk and I'm not sure the Eldritch Scion Magus is advisable over playing a Sorcerer either. There is also Feyspeaker Druid, I think.

Eldritch Scion is alright. Sword Saint is better. The big problem with Scion is the underwhelming bloodline implementation

Scion is a reasonable class that does fun things like Aldori Defender or Archaeologist (the most natural MC class). Sword Saint is overcooked as Eldritch Archer is undercooked. What's wrong with the Bloodline implementation?

 

[NJClaw]

Wow thanks a lot everyone, i'll probably start with Aldori Defender for my 1st playthrough, for some reason just couldn't get into DOS2 or POE2, hopefully this one won't disappoint.

In my opinion, the Paladin is one of the most "forgiving" choices for a beginner: thanks to Bestow Grace you can reach saving throws values so high that no effect in the entire game will be able to affect you and Smite Evil trivializes a big chunk of bosses and mini-bosses. With a Paladin well-buffed by your companions you can leave the group in a room and face some of the tougher enemies 1 on 1 (that's true for most of the classes, with a Paladin it's just simpler to achieve).

Just remember to always bring with you a bard with the Lingering Song feat. Even if you just use him only to activate Inspire Courage, Dirge of Doom and Inspire Heroics, the character it's still worth a slot; however, he is also able to cast, while singing, some of the best buffs and control spells in the game. Cacophonous Call, Mass Cacophonous Call and Fascinate are so strong it's not even fun.

 

[Haplo]

Other Charisma dependent classes include Scaled Fist Monk and Eldritch Scion Magus.
But like Desiderius wrote, you don't really need to focus on Charisma for anything important. 95% of the cases, you can subcontract the Persuasion/Intimidation checks to your party members. And with some buffing and equipment choices, by midgame you can pass pretty much all checks by yourself, even with rock bottom (5) Charisma.

Paladin is much better than Scaled Fist Monk and I'm not sure the Eldritch Scion Magus is advisable over playing a Sorcerer either. There is also Feyspeaker Druid, I think.

Eldritch Scion is alright. Sword Saint is better. The big problem with Scion is the underwhelming bloodline implementation

Scion is a reasonable class that does fun things like Aldori Defender or Archaeologist (the most natural MC class). Sword Saint is overcooked as Eldritch Archer is undercooked. What's wrong with the Bloodline implementation?

He should be getting Bloodrager Bloodlines instead of Sorc bloodlines. It's a tradeoff I guess. Bloodrager bloodlines are considered weaker... and I think maybe also need Pool points to activate?

However he cannot use Sorceror Bloodline abilities which involve spells with levels higher then 6. Also the UI is busted, as it doesn't communicate this.

 

[Galdred]

I am trying to design a Dex Sword Saint: Human SS19/TradMonk1

I am going to be using Scimitars, and I need some help with what works and what doesn't for this build.

- Weapon Finesse + Slashing Grace is the way to go, right?
- Does Piranha Strike work in my case?

(Funnily enough, after hours of searching online I did not find any such dex Sword Saint builds mapped out. Maybe I am blind.)

I am considering going for a Dex Sword Saint too.
How better is it than the STR one when it comes to defenses? Does it make a significant difference regarding Reflex and AC?
Would the build be similar to the ineffect one when it comes to feats? I suppose swapping Aasimar for human makes up for the required finesse feat.
Is Dueling swords the only reasonable weapon for a Dex Build (wouldn't Estoc work too?)?

 

[Haplo]

I am trying to design a Dex Sword Saint: Human SS19/TradMonk1

I am going to be using Scimitars, and I need some help with what works and what doesn't for this build.

- Weapon Finesse + Slashing Grace is the way to go, right?
- Does Piranha Strike work in my case?

(Funnily enough, after hours of searching online I did not find any such dex Sword Saint builds mapped out. Maybe I am blind.)

I am considering going for a Dex Sword Saint too.
How better is it than the STR one when it comes to defenses? Does it make a significant difference regarding Reflex and AC?
Would the build be similar to the ineffect one when it comes to feats? I suppose swapping Aasimar for human makes up for the required finesse feat.
Is Dueling swords the only reasonable weapon for a Dex Build (wouldn't Estoc work too?)?

Well, about 2-3 AC more at start, up to 5 more later on? Significant at level 1, becomes pretty moot fast, particularly if you do the 1 level monk dip with Crane Style as bonus feat. At level 5 you're nearly unhittable when buffed either way. By midgame you're unhittable all the time, even as hybrid Str build.
And even if your Dex is maxed, as opposed to a hybrid Str build, it still costs you 2 AB if you want to do solid damage (cause you want Legendary Proportions for improved weapon damage dice then - and Huge size incurs -2 AB, while its +6 Str buff does nothing for you).

I'd only ever consider a Dex SS if I hated monk dipping and/or lawful character and/or was dead set on the SS capstone level 20 ability, cause it can play rather safe even without the monk dip.


And no, Dueling swords are most certainly no the only weapon option. Sure, an estoc would work well with Fencing Grace. But the way Slashing/Fencing Grace works, you can use Dex for any one-handed slashing or piercing weapon (it uses Dex for BOTH to-hit and damage for the selected weapon, even if its not finessable). So you can also use falcatas, longswords or even bastard swords, should you so desire.
Falcata is probably the best pick if you have Varnhold DLC (although it caps at +3.. but as a magus you can enchant the missing 2), followed by estoc (but you have to wait long for the end game variant).

 

[Seari]

Scaled Fist 1/Feyspeaker 6

Not a bad tank for lvl 7, with 3 mirror images. I don't do any damage, but that's what the pet is for early game. At lvl 9 I'll get leopard form, and I'll turn off combat expertise, but I'll get Crane Wing to compensate.

 

[Lawntoilet]

I'd only ever consider a Dex SS if I hated monk dipping and/or lawful character and/or was dead set on the SS capstone level 20 ability, cause it can play rather safe even without the monk dip.

I'm not even sure that I'd say it's better if you want to avoid the Monk dip. A Dex build is more feat-hungry, so it's easier for a Str build to spare the feats for Improved Unarmed + Dodge to get Crane Style without taking Monk levels.

 

[Seari]

Lvl 9 update. My damage still really sucks in leopard form, but at least I'm not just a meatshield. I'll see how it changes at lvl 13 with smilodon.

 

[Desiderius]

I used to get Crane one way or another on open-handed toons. Now I don't bother. It only turns on once you've attacked (and only works vs melee) and if you're attacking you're already winning.

Especially with SS who already gets the killer combo of Shield + Image. It's better for solo, but at the end of the day you're still taking a -2 hit to AB and burning three feats for a few AC.

 

[Desiderius]

Lvl 9 update. My damage still really sucks in leopard form, but at least I'm not just a meatshield. I'll see how it changes at lvl 13 with smilodon.

Yeah, Leopard was a disappointment (mostly since Pounce isn't working). Make sure you've got Power Attack or Piranha Strike by the time you hit Smilo.

 

[Seari]

Yeah, Leopard was a disappointment (mostly since Pounce isn't working). Make sure you've got Power Attack or Piranha Strike by the time you hit Smilo.

Can you explain why that would be good? My ab is already not the greatest and im not using freebooter or tristian buffs. Also I'm already feat starved, still planning to get trip feats.
I get that smilodon gets 5 attacks, but can I afford to shit on my ab with PA?
Does PA damage increase by 50% with natural attacks? That might be worth it.

 

[Desiderius]

All Smilo attacks are at full AB (not iterative)

Tristian buffs are just silliness. Freebooter makes it tougher, but most toons are getting -10 on third iterative by then and Smilo isn't. Throw a Tranformation on for some real ridiculousness.

 

[Yosharian]

Lvl 9 update. My damage still really sucks in leopard form, but at least I'm not just a meatshield. I'll see how it changes at lvl 13 with smilodon.

Nice Arcane Protector abuse haha

 

[Seari]

Nice Arcane Protector abuse haha

What abuse is that? All dodge bonuses stack and only shifters can afford to dual wield stat sticks. I'll use Perfection later and maybe Thundering Claw.

 

[Yosharian]

Nice Arcane Protector abuse haha

What abuse is that? All dodge bonuses stack and only shifters can afford to dual wield stat sticks. I'll use Perfection later and maybe Thundering Claw.

I mean those weapons are not 'equipped' while wildshaping so you shouldn't get the benefit of them. Shifters need all the help they can get though so it's all good

 

[Desiderius]

Nice Arcane Protector abuse haha

What abuse is that? All dodge bonuses stack and only shifters can afford to dual wield stat sticks. I'll use Perfection later and maybe Thundering Claw.

I mean those weapons are not 'equipped' while wildshaping so you shouldn't get the benefit of them. Shifters need all the help they can get though so it's all good

There are Feats in PnP that let you "meld" your weapons into your claws, so the devs effectively gave those feats to you for free to make Wild Shaping suck less. They were pretty much priced into doing that since itemization, especially weapon itemization, is so central to the mechanics of the game.

The bigger problem is dual wielding a unique weapon.

(a) there are already better options like Shields and Lightning Duelist

(b) why are you obsessing so much about AC? You've got Mirror Image and a Smilodon pet. Slay.

 

[Desiderius]

On a related note, Eldrtich Arcana mod has the Share Spells feat and Druid is one of the few classes with the prereqs to get it. The puzzle of sharing Mirror Image has finally been unlocked.

 

[Desiderius]

I played around some with your build Seari. I guess if you're determined to fight Wild Shaped before your high level Druids spells kick in the Monk splash is fine, it is a ton of AC from CHR, but it slows down those spells and once you get them you just destroy anyway. Pounce and tanking isn't really a combo.

This gets you to Crane Wing (which is kind of iffy Wild Shaped since you don't really have a free hand), but you'd be better off just spending those feats on Shatter Defenses or something to help you land all your awesome spells. Trip feats are entirely unnecessary. You only get Trip from Smilo if you burn your Cloak slot for it, and if you do that you don't need the Feats. You can get the +4 CMB from Aspect of the Bear and Aspect of the Wolf (+2 each). Greater Trip is AoO but that's win more. You've already got a million attacks and everyone already gets one when the tripped dude stands up, which shouldn't happen that often since it will usually be dead.

What things look like with some self-buffs and rudimentary group stuff. Would really benefit from Transformation from Jub or Octavia on hardest fights of course, but you should be ok with Inspire Courage and Outflank bonuses. Looks like you need to be careful when you cast the Seamantle, but as you can see plenty of AC options. Likewise Magic Fang, Greater gets cast after Wild Shape.

Some better things to equip

Sweet, sweet Eighth level spells you're working toward. Forgot that you get Legendary at seven, which straight Feyspeaker (no Monk) could get in time for VTomb.

 

[Seari]

Why do you value Lightning Duelist so highly? Don't you just pounce before combat, so initiative doesn't matter?

Totally forgot I can use bucklers, Bladeguard is worth considering for sure. I kinda wish to try Thundering Claw because it's cool, probably shit though.

I'll consider cutting the Trip feats.