Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Pink Eye]

Reading through this thread have made me realize just how shit my own builds really are.

Why?

 

[NJClaw]

Reading through this thread have made me realize just how shit my own builds really are.

Why?

As we all know, the strength of a Kingmaker character is determined only by the hotness of the portrait and, you have to admit, Desiderius is clearly pushing that kind of optimization to its limits.

That's also the reason why monks are usually seen as "weak": it's hard to find a hot monk portrait.

 

[Desiderius]

 

[Pink Eye]

Reading through this thread have made me realize just how shit my own builds really are.

Why?

As we all know, the strength of a Kingmaker character is determined only by the hotness of the portrait and, you have to admit, Desiderius is clearly pushing that kind of optimization to its limits.

That's also the reason why monks are usually seen as "weak": it's hard to find a hot monk portrait.

Meh. Entire point of the thread is to discuss your "bad" builds and have others give advice.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Also another question - does shatter defenses trigger from weapon focused ray spell?

 

[Desiderius]

Yes, but rarely relevant.

 

[Yosharian]

Also another question - does shatter defenses trigger from weapon focused ray spell?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Shatter Defenses works with any weapon or attack, if that's what you're asking.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Also another question - does shatter defenses trigger from weapon focused ray spell?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Shatter Defenses works with any weapon or attack, if that's what you're asking.

That answered my question, ty

 

[PETEX]

Hello! I have asked help before elsewhere and I received some. But I recently found out about this forum and wanted to ask more experienced players if they had any additional ideas. So I've been trying to come up with a STR dual wielder that works even for higher difficulties. What I have so far is as follows:

Motherless Tiefling
Str: 18 > 22
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 17 > 18 @ 20
Cha: 7

Monk (Traditional) 1/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 16/Slayer 3

Lvl1: Monk - Dodge // Crane Style
Lvl 2: Alchemist
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Accomplished Sneak Attacker // Feral Mutagen
Lvl 4: Alchemist
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Two Weapon Fighting // Combat Trick > Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 6: Alchemist
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Crane Wing // Combat trick > Outflank
Lvl 8: Alchemist
Lvl 9: Alchemist - Exotic: Two Bladed Sword // Combat Trick > Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Lvl 10: Alchemist
Lvl 11: Alchemist - Weapon Focus: Two Bladed Sword // Combat Trick > Dazzling Display
Lvl 12: Alchemist
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Improved Critical: Two Bladed Sword // Combat Trick > Shatter Defenses
Lvl 14: Alchemist
Lvl 15: Alchemist - Greater Two Weapon Fighting // Greater Mutagen
Lvl 16: Alchemist
Lvl 17: Alchemist - Crane Riposte // Combat Trick > Double Slice
Lvl 18: Slayer
Lvl 19: Slayer - Power Attack // Combat Trick > Dreadful Carnage
Lvl 20: Slayer

What do you guys think? Do you have any ideas for improvement or moving things around?

 

[PETEX]

Oh and additional question (the edit time) how much worse would a half-orc with double axe be with the same build?

 

[Yosharian]

My first question would be, why are you using a CHA-dumped build to perform Demoralise on enemies.

 

[Seari]

Oh and additional question (the edit time) how much worse would a half-orc with double axe be with the same build?

You either go non orc and go for Twin Crystals or you go orc and use Faterender, whichever you prefer. Also orc saves you a feat, since you don't need exotic. If you go non orc you'll probably have to cut Accomplished Sneak Attacker for Exotic.

If I were to make a build around two bladed weapons it would be something like this:

Half-Orc
Str: 18 > 22
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 7
Cha: 15 >16 @ 4

Scaled Fist 1/Fighter 1/Alchemist 12/Archeologist 2/Dragon Disciple 4

Lvl 1: Monk - Dodge // Crane Style
Lvl 2: Fighter - Weapon Focus: Double Axe
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Dazzling Display
Lvl 4: Alchemist - Feral Mutagen
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Outflank
Lvl 6: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Two Weapon Fighting
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Crane Wing
Lvl 8: Alchemist - Feral Wings
Lvl 9: Alchemist - Shatter Defenses
Lvl 10: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Lvl 11: Alchemist - Crane Riposte
Lvl 12: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Improved Critical: Double Axe
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Double Slice
Lvl 14: Alchemist - Greater Mutagen
Lvl 15: Bard - Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Lvl 16: Bard - Crippling Strike
Lvl 17: DD - Combat Reflexes
Lvl 18: DD
Lvl 19: DD - Seize The Moment or Toughness
Lvl 20: DD

Mirror Image with extend rods. Fighter dip so you can use the best weapons you find until you get Faterender, WF is only 1 AB. For Twin Crystals go human.
Concept build, I didn't test it ingame.

Fuck the demoralize feats, you can't afford them and they are a waste. Just take a proper bard with you with Dirge.

 

[Yosharian]

Either way Twin-Bladed Sword is not a very good weapon to throw away an Exotic feat on, and Half-Orc is just a trash race.

 

[Seari]

I imagine playing a Half-Orc MC would involve a lot of reloads.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah fuck their implementation of that race, it's just sad

 

[PETEX]

My first question would be, why are you using a CHA-dumped build to perform Demoralise on enemies.

Yeah it might only work later on the game or not even be worth it.

Either way Twin-Bladed Sword is not a very good weapon to throw away an Exotic feat on, and Half-Orc is just a trash race.

Which weapon type would you rather choose for twf str build? Double axe but with Motherless Tiefling or human? Double weapon would be 1.5 str and are light off hand so lesser penalties if I'm not mistaken. Seems good for str stacking twf even though the availability is limited.

You either go non orc and go for Twin Crystals or you go orc and use Faterender, whichever you prefer. Also orc saves you a feat, since you don't need exotic. If you go non orc you'll probably have to cut Accomplished Sneak Attacker for Exotic.

If I were to make a build around two bladed weapons it would be something like this:

Scaled Fist 1/Alchemist 12/Archeologist 2/Dragon Disciple 4

Fuck the demoralize feats, you can't afford them and they are a waste. Just take a proper bard with you with Dirge.

This seems good. How about adding a single Sword Saint level in the middle instead of Fighter at the back and pick the weapon type there? I saw something similar in Haplok's Vivi build. Also are the Archaelogist/DD levels better than additional Vivi levels?

Thank you for the responses.

 

[Desiderius]

Either way Twin-Bladed Sword is not a very good weapon to throw away an Exotic feat on, and Half-Orc is just a trash race.

Do I have to do a Twin Crystals demonstration now?

When will Yosh stop talking out of his ass?

 

[Desiderius]

I imagine playing a Half-Orc MC would involve a lot of reloads.

What, for Diehard?

On Unfair if you're under zero you're usually way under zero so it wouldn't come up much (you just work on not getting hit much at all). Most fights you can take one hit so you work to make sure it takes a twenty to get there and that the bad guys don't get many rolls.

Orc is fine if you've got an Orc weapon in mind.

 

[Desiderius]

Oh and additional question (the edit time) how much worse would a half-orc with double axe be with the same build?

There's a test for that here:

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...rom-owlcat-games.125267/page-630#post-6630954

Two-bladed weapons aren't the easiest to manage, but when you get there they combine the best of both worlds between two-weapon and two-handed.

 

[Haplo]

My first question would be, why are you using a CHA-dumped build to perform Demoralise on enemies.

With Intimidating Prowess. That's like at least +15 Intimidate from Str alone, probably more.
The 5 from Cha he's not gaining really isn't a huge deal.

 

[Haplo]

Hello! I have asked help before elsewhere and I received some. But I recently found out about this forum and wanted to ask more experienced players if they had any additional ideas. So I've been trying to come up with a STR dual wielder that works even for higher difficulties. What I have so far is as follows:

Motherless Tiefling
Str: 18 > 22
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 17 > 18 @ 20
Cha: 7

Monk (Traditional) 1/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 16/Slayer 3

Lvl1: Monk - Dodge // Crane Style
Lvl 2: Alchemist
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Accomplished Sneak Attacker // Feral Mutagen
Lvl 4: Alchemist
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Two Weapon Fighting // Combat Trick > Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 6: Alchemist
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Crane Wing // Combat trick > Outflank
Lvl 8: Alchemist
Lvl 9: Alchemist - Exotic: Two Bladed Sword // Combat Trick > Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Lvl 10: Alchemist
Lvl 11: Alchemist - Weapon Focus: Two Bladed Sword // Combat Trick > Dazzling Display
Lvl 12: Alchemist
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Improved Critical: Two Bladed Sword // Combat Trick > Shatter Defenses
Lvl 14: Alchemist
Lvl 15: Alchemist - Greater Two Weapon Fighting // Greater Mutagen
Lvl 16: Alchemist
Lvl 17: Alchemist - Crane Riposte // Combat Trick > Double Slice
Lvl 18: Slayer
Lvl 19: Slayer - Power Attack // Combat Trick > Dreadful Carnage
Lvl 20: Slayer

What do you guys think? Do you have any ideas for improvement or moving things around?

I'd try to tempo Shatter Defenses to get it around level 9-10.
Oh and Outflank should be at level 5!

If its Alchemist 16, why don't you have Grand Mutagen?
Also I'd really want Crippling Strike Advanced Talent in there.

Expendable feats IMO include Dodge and Accomplished Sneak Attacker.

 

[Desiderius]

My first question would be, why are you using a CHA-dumped build to perform Demoralise on enemies.

With Intimidating Prowess. That's like at least +15 Intimidate from Str alone, probably more.
The 5 from Cha he's not gaining really isn't a huge deal.

Takes awhile to kick in, but you do eventually get there, vs CHR builds which can reliably do it all game.

 

[Haplo]

My first question would be, why are you using a CHA-dumped build to perform Demoralise on enemies.

With Intimidating Prowess. That's like at least +15 Intimidate from Str alone, probably more.
The 5 from Cha he's not gaining really isn't a huge deal.

Takes awhile to kick in, but you do eventually get there, vs CHR builds which can reliably do it all game.

His plan is to take Dreadful Carnage at level 19...
Before that he probably shouldn't use Dazzling much (which is a full round ability nowadays). Shatter is important. Someone else can do the demoralizing till Dreadful kicks in (a bard with Dirge?)

 

[Desiderius]

No Save Dirge is kinda shitty. I've been getting some of the same results with Dirty Trick - Blind.

 

[Yosharian]

My first question would be, why are you using a CHA-dumped build to perform Demoralise on enemies.

Yeah it might only work later on the game or not even be worth it.

Either way Twin-Bladed Sword is not a very good weapon to throw away an Exotic feat on, and Half-Orc is just a trash race.

Which weapon type would you rather choose for twf str build? Double axe but with Motherless Tiefling or human? Double weapon would be 1.5 str and are light off hand so lesser penalties if I'm not mistaken. Seems good for str stacking twf even though the availability is limited.

You either go non orc and go for Twin Crystals or you go orc and use Faterender, whichever you prefer. Also orc saves you a feat, since you don't need exotic. If you go non orc you'll probably have to cut Accomplished Sneak Attacker for Exotic.

If I were to make a build around two bladed weapons it would be something like this:

Scaled Fist 1/Alchemist 12/Archeologist 2/Dragon Disciple 4

Fuck the demoralize feats, you can't afford them and they are a waste. Just take a proper bard with you with Dirge.

This seems good. How about adding a single Sword Saint level in the middle instead of Fighter at the back and pick the weapon type there? I saw something similar in Haplok's Vivi build. Also are the Archaelogist/DD levels better than additional Vivi levels?

Thank you for the responses.

It'll work, it's just not super effective until your STR score gets big. The point of that feat is to double-dip on ability score bonuses, not to replace a non-existent CHA bonus.

That said, Hap's right when he says it'll probably be OK. I just don't think it's very efficient to invest in these feats long-term when Frightful Aspect on a support Cleric gets it done instantly, no-save, min-per-level duration.

Two-bladed sword is 19-20/x2 for an Exotic feat. That's flat-out worse than weapons you can already equip. Yes there's added efficiency from having one weapon as the source of all your damage, but I'm not certain it's worth a feat, especially considering there are other things you should be picking up at that level (see Hap's comment).

Double weapons do not receive 1.5x STR modifiers. They are considered light off-hand, but that's irrelevant, there are decent off-hand weapons that don't require a feat.

Frankly depending on your team setup TWF might not be the best choice. For starters you need someone wielding Vanquisher - if you haven't got that, then ditch the TWF and go for greataxe instead.

Faterender is rather decent, but any kind of DR reduces its damage significantly. Twin Crystals is good for piercing DR but aside from that is rather boring and isn't going to be superior to a lot of the other weapons you could wield.

You want to pick your weapon type early to get access to Shatter Defenses in a timely manner, but unless you're a Sword Saint there's nothing stopping you from simply using another weapon in the meantime regardless of your Weapon Focus feat.

Martial proficiency gets you longsword and shortsword, Allslayer is one of the best off-handers and there are a couple of amazing longswords. That's what I'd go for, and in the meantime while waiting for the best in slot items to show up, you can use whatever best items you have since martial gives you proficiency in tons of weapons.