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Yeah, I ultimately found even the monk splash for AC & Evasion not necessary. There are alot of great medium armors that permit high Dex bonuses, and Reflex is so high that Evasion is overkill. The sneaks are great, but when 1/4 of your attacks will do 100+ damage, they are less relevant. In my tests with random items in Endless Dungeon mode, the 2:18 Paladin:2H Fighter would do like 55 damage minimum to anything, using just a +1 Fauchard. With proper itemization from the campaign, that can be improved greatly. Great Cleave for hordes, iterative attacks for unique enemies. Everything explodes. The fighter class features really add up.
+1 AC is a drop in the ocean. It's about Opportunity cost (what you're giving up to get the one AC).
Barb 2 gets you Martial Proficiency, another Bite (while Raging, if you're into that), Some Rage, Speed (i.e. larger Charge range), and Uncanny Dodge.
Everybody builds the cool Vivi starting out, but it's not like you're breaking the game or anything. I've found iteratives (including bites) to be overrated. Feel free to experiment with what works for you.
Okay I tried also putting this together (Barb 2/ Viv X) put I noticed that after the few first levels I'm at a loss on which feats to choose. Could you please provide any outline on which feats and at which level you chose while testing or would choose during a playthrough?
No. It's the bare minimum number of feats (another hint that maybe Vivi isn't all it's cracked up to be), and three of those are taken up by your two-weapon fighting feats. The fun of the game is figuring those out for yourself.
A couple non-obvious ones:
Blindfight helps a lot in Season, then gives you gaze immunity for the late game.
The radius for adjacency in Teamwork feats is 5 meters, so they're better than they look.
Shatter Defenses is a lot better for builds trying to land iterative attacks and bites, but it costs three Feats to get it if you're not using Combat Style Feats from Ranger/Slayer, one of the reasons I've leaned away from iteratives. It also requires mobs to be Shaken, to which Undead (including Ghosts) are immune.
On my current playthrough I'm going as a Vital Striking Freebooter. I'm wondering how useful Monks' AC bonus and Crane chain of feats is in general. On one hand the early going must have been easier with the AC, while on the other I'm thinking that maybe armor access and buffs would be enough even then for frontlining. Not to mention the early AB hit. Of course there is also the possible opportunity cost of having something else that early. I'm pondering the ways to avoid damage and resting early but I'm guessing that as long as Val has the main aggro it isn't such a huge deal.
I never took more then the 1st basic Crane Style feat, granted freely by 1 monk, without prerequisites. Found it useful when tanking. Makes Defensive Fighting useful, otherwise its too costly IMO. YMMV.
On my current playthrough I'm going as a Vital Striking Freebooter. I'm wondering how useful Monks' AC bonus and Crane chain of feats is in general. On one hand the early going must have been easier with the AC, while on the other I'm thinking that maybe armor access and buffs would be enough even then for frontlining. Not to mention the early AB hit. Of course there is also the possible opportunity cost of having something else that early. I'm pondering the ways to avoid damage and resting early but I'm guessing that as long as Val has the main aggro it isn't such a huge deal.
I never took more then the 1st basic Crane Style feat, granted freely by 1 monk, without prerequisites. Found it useful when tanking. Makes Defensive Fighting useful, otherwise its too costly IMO. YMMV.
I've played that way most of my playthroughs, and I guess you kind of have to to survive early game Unfair, but I've gotten away from it now unless I'm taking Dodge for something else like Duelist Parry (so Crane Wing is easier to get to) and I want the CHR/WIS to AC.
Fighting Defensively isn't on when you need it (flat-footed), it only comes on when you attack.
How do you generally view Dragon Disciple dips? Namely four levels for additional stats/possible spells? This in regards for melee characters of course.
How do you generally view Dragon Disciple dips? Namely four levels for additional stats/possible spells? This in regards for melee characters of course.
Stats (especially STR) end up being a dime a dozen.
Archeologist means only Light Armor, Eldritch Scoundrel no armor at all. Melee characters have a lot of things they can do without dabbling in spells at all, and many of those things get better with levels.
Think clearly about what you're giving up and what you're getting, and other ways you can possibly get it. The game is biased toward single-classing, even for melee. Took me a long time to come to that conclusion.
Things like Barb 10/Freebooter 10 on Amiri end up being very powerful, but make sure you have a specific, game-changing purpose in mind before multi-classing (in this case Pounce at Barb 10 and all three Combat Style Feats from Freebooter), not just going for a few stats.
How do you generally view Dragon Disciple dips? Namely four levels for additional stats/possible spells? This in regards for melee characters of course.
Unfortunately Dragon Disciple is really suboptimal for nearly all builds.
If you're desperate for a bite attack there are usually other, better, options, and additional attacks like this are usually only worth it if you have lots of Sneak Attack dice, which DD doesn't offer. I mean if you're bite stacking then it could be valid, but otherwise no.
The loss of spellcasting levels is just really bad, and isn't justified by what DD brings to the table. If it was a full spellcasting PrC it wouldn't be so bad.
Medium BAB means that any STR bonuses have to be weighed against that loss of BAB.
STR bonuses basically amount to +2 to hit and +2 to damage. That's really poor value, even for 4 levels, especially since it's a medium BAB class. If you get other things from the STR boost then it could be more valuable, for example Regongar gets bonuses to his kingdom management role so STR is more valuable for him.
The natural armor is one of the best things about this PrC but it doesn't apply to touch attacks unlike, say, Stalwart Defender AC, so it's not that good, it's just OK.
The other cool stuff such as the INT boost, the bonus Wings feat, Blindsense and so on come too late to be worthwhile, though they are nice bonuses.
It's a real shame cos thematically this PrC has a lot going for it. If it had full spellcasting, it would be a really good option.
Main Hand: Dormition (+5 Dagger, +2 to spell DC when casting a Death spell)
Offhand: Lightning Duelist (+1 Shock Dagger, +1 Dodge to AC, +4 Insight to Initative)
Armor: Robe of the True Master (+5 Deflection to AC, SR 18, +4 Resistance to saves, +2 SP)
Belt: Greater Belt of Perfect Components (1st-, 2nd- and 3rd-level spells auto-extended)
Boots: Sure Step (+4 ?? bonus to CMD, +4 Enh. bonus to CON, trip/slow immunity)
Gloves: Lightest Touch (+6 Enh. to Dexterity)
Head: Crown (+6 Enh. to INT/WIS/CHA)
Neck: Wind Breath (+4 Morale bonus to Initiative)
Ring1: Ring of Law (+4 Defl. to AC, Fear/Confusion immunity)
Ring2: Ring of Circumstances (+2 Circumstance bonus to Cha, DC, Skills, Saves)
Shoulders: Cloak of Sold Souls (-4 CON, +2 to CL/DC for Necro spells, 3x Vamp Touch)
Wrist: Bracers of Armor +6 (+6 Armor bonus)
Rod: Rod of Power Source (+4 to Conjuration spell DC)
Rod2: Rod of Undeath (+2 to Necromancy spell DC, +1 caster level, Maximise 5/day)
Loot Locations:
Main Hand: Dormition [CH3, Varnhold Vanishing: side with Enneo and against Jaethal]
Offhand: Lightning Duelist [Loot Stefano Moskoni]
Armor: Robe of the True Master [CH3 Varnhold Vanishing: Abandoned Keep, in room behind hidden wall]
Belt: Greater Belt of Perfect Components [CH6, Purchase from Rushlight for 170k]
Boots: Sure Step [Artisan: Tirval ('boots', T5)]
Gloves: Lightest Touch [Artisan: Nazrielle ('speed', T3)]
Head: Crown [Coronation event]
Neck: Wind Breath [Artisan: Mim ('amulet', T0)]
Ring1: Ring of Law [CH5, War of the River Kings]
Ring2: Ring of Circumstances [CH5, Rushlight Tournament, Magical Accessories trader]
Shoulders: Cloak of Sold Souls [Collect 15x Ancient Scrap of Script-Covered Leather]
Wrist: Bracers of Armor +6 [Unknown]
Rod: Rod of Power Source [Artisan: Irlene ('Rod', T3)]
Rod2: Rod of Undeath [Artisan: Irlene ('Rod', T4)]
Just a sorcerer build, basically. Crazy CC power throughout the game, endgame annihilates stuff with Wail of the Banshee.
You can make a good tank out of her using TSS 9 + something else, though. Probably Stalwart Defender. Gaining the shield bonus on Touch AC is a really big buff for endgame tanking.
Haplo I have a question about your bastard Sword 1 monk/19 saint build. How do you take GVS at lvl 18, it requires 16 BAB yet you have 14 BAB at that point, am I missing something? Wouldn't you need another full bab class level to be able to take it at level 19?
A few more questions since I never used standard action combat feats before.
Tell me if I understand this correctly, Vital strike chains via Improved Cleaving Finish, so every target I kill, the next one will recieve Vital Strike damage? Is Great Cleave pointless once you get Vital Strike?
Do you only use Vital strike vs more targets or do you use it vs only one target as well? Are iteratives with haste better vs one target?
Thanks.
A few more questions since I never used standard action combat feats before.
Tell me if I understand this correctly, Vital strike chains via Improved Cleaving Finish, so every target I kill, the next one will recieve Vital Strike damage?
Not quite. If there are several mobs in range and all at full health, it might be beneficial to weaken them all first, rather then deliver a strong blow to one and not kill him or chain just one more attack.
And it is a a prerequisite for Improved Cleaving Finish...
Do you only use Vital strike vs more targets or do you use it vs only one target as well? Are iteratives with haste better vs one target?
Thanks.
Vital Strike (or Cleave) is used after movement, when you can't full attack. Or combined with other Move actions (like Freeboter's Bane).
Iteratives are better in most cases if you don't have trouble hitting. Although Vital Strike is good to deliver accurate blows vs enemies that are not easy to hit (for example with a Quickened TrueStrike), even better if they are also mighty blows (SS Perfect Strike is simply... perfect for this).
