Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Yosharian]

Really? Unless your Damage Resistance says that it has an exception against magic it should stop it. Stoneskin for example gives DR against all except adamantine, so I don't see any problem here.

It's not supposed to work that way.

...So how is it supposed to work? Never played Pathfinder before, so I'm just going on from what the game tells me. In-game it is consistent at least.

Well, for starters 2d6 bonus damage is equivalent to Holy, or Bane. So it's a tremendously powerful damage bonus, on par with some of the most powerful enchantments in the game.

Secondly, the damage is from an enchantment, so it's not weapon damage.

Thirdly, the damage is untyped per RAW, which implies that it's force damage or energy damage. If it was physical damage it almost certainly by typed, like slashing, etc.

You could definitely interpret it as plain physical damage, but that's plainly not how the enchantment is supposed to work.

If it did work that way, it would be better than Holy, or Bane, or any other enchantment, as it's 2d6 against anything, with an easily avoided damage penalty.

That's why most of the sources I found ruled that it isn't blocked by DR.

So... Umm, do I use it or not?

Well, I personally wouldn't, but I'm not playing the game at the moment, either =p Do what you want dude =) At the end of the day, balance is less of big deal in a single player game. It's not like you're ruining anyone else's fun.

 

[Yosharian]

Actually, I overstated Bane and Holy. They're only +1/+2 effects. Not the most powerful enchantments.

 

[Ent]

Has anyone tested out elven curved blades using rogue finesse? I was wondering if you could get 1.5 dex to damage while two handing it that way.

 

[J1M]

This is literally a thread about the game builds, not pnp.

Yes. If it is bugged, then what is there is not as intended. Isn't that why you asked the question to begin with: You don't know what is it supposed to be. The only possible source when the game itself is wrong is to go back to what it is based on.

I can't believe that I have to explain it to you.

This thread has a few retards that apologize for bugs by calling them design decisions. You'll get used to it.

 

[Lawntoilet]

This is literally a thread about the game builds, not pnp.

Yes. If it is bugged, then what is there is not as intended. Isn't that why you asked the question to begin with: You don't know what is it supposed to be. The only possible source when the game itself is wrong is to go back to what it is based on.

I can't believe that I have to explain it to you.

This thread has a few retards that apologize for bugs by calling them design decisions. You'll get used to it.

So is the way they implemented flanking a big because the positioning requirements are different than PnP?

 

[Cael]

Any sort of DR will do. So Adamantine armor, Stoneskin, Angelic Shape, Epic Proportions. It becomes quite easy after a while.

This is correct. Unless otherwise stated, the extra damage done (both ways) is the same as the base damage type of the weapon. It is no different to the +x damage you get on weapons. Just because it is a d6 type number instead of a fixed number doesn't change that. A +5 greatsword doesn't do 2d6 slashing damage + 5 untyped damage + x untyped damage based on strength.

So, yes, that Greatsword is doing the equivalent of 4d6 slashing damage. It is hilariously broken for obvious reasons, but not as broken as the kind of crap a two-hander power attacker can get up to if they really put their minds to it.

 

[rashiakas]

Any legit STR builds? I feel like everything I see is DEX.

I'd like to do a melee fighting inquisitor but it seems like it just spreads out the skills and attributes too much.

Melee DEX Builds are way overrated. For STR melee Inquisitor I would go sacred huntsmaster with a Fauchard. 20 14 12 10 14 7 spread as Human. Spend feats on martial weapon, exotic weapon fauchard, heavy armor prof. Outflank with your pet and use bane/divine favour for tough oponents.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Any legit STR builds? I feel like everything I see is DEX.

I'd like to do a melee fighting inquisitor but it seems like it just spreads out the skills and attributes too much.

Melee DEX Builds are way overrated. For STR melee Inquisitor I would go sacred huntsmaster with a Fauchard. 20 14 12 10 14 7 spread as Human. Spend feats on martial weapon, exotic weapon fauchard, heavy armor prof. Outflank with your pet and use bane/divine favour for tough oponents.

people only talk about DEX melee builds so much because they're finicky and require some extra planning. STR builds are straightforward--they just work.

 

[panda]

Really? It says something about negative energy or whatever so I thought normal damage reduction wouldn't go around it

This is 1d6 piercing damage(check combat logs). Which makes sense if you pay attention to sword model

However, it is true that self damage type indeed contradicts to effect description, unlike bonus damage to enemy which is labeled in logs as 'magic'(most likely so called untyped damage)

 

[Haplo]

Any sort of DR will do. So Adamantine armor, Stoneskin, Angelic Shape, Epic Proportions. It becomes quite easy after a while.

Gee, yet another thing that isn't functioning correctly. DR is not supposed to negate this damage at all.

I do believe I've read its supposed to be fixed, so that DR doesn't stop the Vicious self damage.

 

[vazha]

Any sort of DR will do. So Adamantine armor, Stoneskin, Angelic Shape, Epic Proportions. It becomes quite easy after a while.

Gee, yet another thing that isn't functioning correctly. DR is not supposed to negate this damage at all.

I do believe I've read its supposed to be fixed, so that DR doesn't stop the Vicious self damage.

What does? and what kind of maximum damage would I be inflicting upon myself during every successful hit? can that damage crit on myself?

 

[Elex]

it’s a barbarian weapon it make sense that having DR/- reduce the damage.

 

[Andnjord]

Any sort of DR will do. So Adamantine armor, Stoneskin, Angelic Shape, Epic Proportions. It becomes quite easy after a while.

Gee, yet another thing that isn't functioning correctly. DR is not supposed to negate this damage at all.

I do believe I've read its supposed to be fixed, so that DR doesn't stop the Vicious self damage.

What does? and what kind of maximum damage would I be inflicting upon myself during every successful hit? can that damage crit on myself?

That 1d6 damage does get doubled when you inflict a critical hit, yes. It is still a tremendously powerful weapon, especially when you consider the peculiarities of that 2d6 bonus damage (it gets rolled separately, so it applies a lot of bonus damage twice).

 

[vazha]

Latest observations on spellstrike: You can effectively spellstrike with a two-handed weapon (Fauchard for example), and not at the cost of, as Yosharian implied earlier, your subsequent attacks in the round. Or something like that.

The way it works is, let's say you've got enough bab for three attacks per round - with one handed weapon + spell strike + spell combat you can one spellstrike attack (it explicitly says you get ONE free attack of this sort) and two more classic spell combat ones, both of them involving spells, with your one-handed weapon at cummulative -4 attack penalty for the spellstrike attack, whereas with a fauchard you can deliver ALSO ONE such melee +spell combo attack per round, BUT unless you have that touch spell toggled on (the character will wait for the start of a new round in this case), you can STILL deliver your remaining two melee attacks (without spell component) with your fauchard.

So, what gives? If this is intended and not a bug (logically, it shouldn't be, the description says you can use any weapon), I think a Two-handed magus might be a very viable build and in right hands, far superior to the classic scimitar-wielding archetype. After all, unless you go pure magus (which you most likely wont be), you'll be mostly using spells for buffing yourself and the best touch spells you're getting are about lvl 4, so it might be a reasonable tradeoff. Or, you could assume the role of debuffer and fatigue/shake/frighten your enemies through melee attacks instead of opting for acid/cold damage.

UPD: If you invest in estoc or bastard sword, you can alternate between the two modes which is even more fantastic and very convenient. IF there are good estocs in game, considering the crit range, I'd say Estoc is an ultimate weapon for such a build.

UPD: Don't know why but my maguses don't get bloodline selection feats. Sorcerers and Dragon Disciple do, but not maguses. Should be a bug.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Not quite sure I get what is happening in the game as I stopped my magus game and restarted as a boring but safe EK. But spellstrike should work with any weapon, two handed included. It's spellcombat that should require one hand free, so no other attacks with that two hander this round, apart from the free spellstrike one that came with the spell. Maybe something got lost in the translation to rtwp?

 

[Parabalus]

So, at this moment the most powerful non-druid build is the Arcane Trickster. Octavia is super optimized except for being a half-elf. Make a human counterpart, take level one of Vivisectionist and then go full wizard with transmutation spec. You have now two bonuses to the dex that will stack and you can leave it at 13.

The reason AT is so powerful is that it preserves full spellcasting progression and gives you 5 sneak dice. With Accomplished Sneak Attacker, you are basically at level 10 AT with only one spellcasting level lost and ranged touching everything to oblivion.

What do you use to RT with Octavia?

How is it better than an Alchemist machinegunning bombs?

 

[vazha]

so no other attacks with that two hander this round, apart from the free spellstrike one that came with the spell. Maybe something got lost in the translation to rtwp?

Why no other attacks? Where do your remaining 2 attacks go? The way it is now you can spellstrike once (with two-handed) per round and then deliver the remaining melee attacks without spell component if your bab allows so. Nowhere in the description does it say it takes away your remaining attacks. It says "you get one free [spellstrike] attack" - does it mean you get only one attack per round? I don't think so. The way it should be is 1 spellstike +remaining normal attacks.

 

[Ent]

Precise bombs takes care of the friendly fire issue

 

[vazha]

Bombs are AoE which means friendly fire. To RT with Octavia use first simply the cantrips. All damage ones are RT. Later all rays are on the table when you get them. Greater spell focus in transmutation and then Disintegrate is your Boss blower.

Ever heard of a grenadier and his precise bombs? Alchemists are so broken in this game they make unfair trivial.

 

[Parabalus]

Bombs are AoE which means friendly fire. To RT with Octavia use first simply the cantrips. All damage ones are RT. Later all rays are on the table when you get them. Greater spell focus in transmutation and then Disintegrate is your Boss blower.

Ever heard of a grenadier and his precise bombs? Alchemists are so broken in this game they make unfair trivial.

I have her auto-cast cantrips, she hits every time with a sneak attack, sure, but that's 1 hit per round.

My MC is just a ranged rogue who can hit 4 SA per round, Nok-Nok does 5-6 attacks 50-60 damage per round, Jubilost can hit 5 bombs per round for similar damage.

Just don't get how AT is the "strongest" non-druid class as you put it, I get RT AC is very low but the damage is still abysmal.

 

[razvedchiki]

Dwarf fighter/grenadiers work or its better to go full alchemist?

 

[Parabalus]

Bombs are AoE which means friendly fire. To RT with Octavia use first simply the cantrips. All damage ones are RT. Later all rays are on the table when you get them. Greater spell focus in transmutation and then Disintegrate is your Boss blower.

Ever heard of a grenadier and his precise bombs? Alchemists are so broken in this game they make unfair trivial.

I have her auto-cast cantrips, she hits every time with a sneak attack, sure, but that's 1 hit per round.

My MC is just a ranged rogue who can hit 4 SA per round, Nok-Nok does 5-6 attacks 50-60 damage per round, Jubilost can hit 5 bombs per round for similar damage.

Just don't get how AT is the "strongest" non-druid class as you put it, I get RT AC is very low but the damage is still abysmal.

Don't forget all the CC that the wizard can put on that. That is the real strength of the AT. Because it loses only one spellcasting level, you are actually way more flexible than the rogue.

So it's just a wizard who can fight trash (conserve spells) by using 1 sneak attack per round, that's it?

 

[Serus]

Bombs are AoE which means friendly fire. To RT with Octavia use first simply the cantrips. All damage ones are RT. Later all rays are on the table when you get them. Greater spell focus in transmutation and then Disintegrate is your Boss blower.

Ever heard of a grenadier and his precise bombs? Alchemists are so broken in this game they make unfair trivial.

I have her auto-cast cantrips, she hits every time with a sneak attack, sure, but that's 1 hit per round.

My MC is just a ranged rogue who can hit 4 SA per round, Nok-Nok does 5-6 attacks 50-60 damage per round, Jubilost can hit 5 bombs per round for similar damage.

Just don't get how AT is the "strongest" non-druid class as you put it, I get RT AC is very low but the damage is still abysmal.

I would assume that ranged touch should be much easier to land than bow attacks or even melee most of the time so the difference is less pronounced. No damage if you miss.
And you don't need to go in melee as you need with nok-nok which has its own disadvantages.
Also you get rays that allow to land several sneak attack rolls per one spell. Granted, those are limited in numbers but still against hard enemies you get crazy damage output and it's all from range.
And you get an almost full wizard (-1 level) on top of that.
And what Kit Walker said.

 

[Parabalus]

Bombs are AoE which means friendly fire. To RT with Octavia use first simply the cantrips. All damage ones are RT. Later all rays are on the table when you get them. Greater spell focus in transmutation and then Disintegrate is your Boss blower.

Ever heard of a grenadier and his precise bombs? Alchemists are so broken in this game they make unfair trivial.

I have her auto-cast cantrips, she hits every time with a sneak attack, sure, but that's 1 hit per round.

My MC is just a ranged rogue who can hit 4 SA per round, Nok-Nok does 5-6 attacks 50-60 damage per round, Jubilost can hit 5 bombs per round for similar damage.


Also you get rays that allow to land several sneak attack rolls per one spell. Granted, those are limited in numbers but still against hard enemies you get crazy damage output and it's all from range.

That's what I've asked, which spells are those? That explains it.

 

[Elex]

arcane trickster can perform multiple simultaneous sneak attacks.
and also ignore many DR.