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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

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Indeed, projects in KM are about as good as Russia is at capitalism.

It's kind of crazy how inefficient buildings are in raising stats compared to consistently succeeding in all of the events. For half the game you're basically stuck at 30 CP per week but the stats you get from events are worth like 100+ a week. But there's not much strategy because you can't plan around what stats to get from events, success is highly random, etc etc.
 

KainenMorden

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Codex Year of the Donut
as soon as your toy is criticized, you fly into a rage like a scorned child.
It's not my game. It's one I enjoy and want to do well so other people will buy it and the devs can afford to make more and other so other devs will make similar games.

You lied to to the forum in a way so transparent you insulted the intelligence of anyone reading your comment. I returned the insult in a way just as unmistakable so you wouldn't think you'd gotten away with it. It's a shitty way to act.

So you think the management draws people to the game?

Come on now, there's no way you believe that.

Now you're intimating that I'm lying about my own subjective experience that I've transparently explained? Not good.

Yes, it drew me. A lot of people out there like kingdom-building stuff so probably drew them initially too. Implementation wasn't great (as I said I didn't like it at first) and people like you were already getting the brainworms started so people let themselves get talked out of figuring it out and stayed bad at it so didn't like it. People never gave Wrath Crusade a chance because the mindless pile-on was so so sweet but that wears off after awhile and Wrath sales have done well so they'll probably find a softer target on which to feed.

If RT gets it right then there will be a lot of people who forget that they hated it. Just like there's a lot of people now who forget that they loved Oblivion when it came out or whatever.

I didn't lie, I have my opinion and many agree, the actual crpg gameplay is great, the management, not so much. Anyone who plays after the first Act can decide for themselves and I never told anyone not to play it, just that the mechanic does nothing for me and is pointless. Some enjoy it, that's fine also.

It sold well enough for a sequel and the devs are working on another game but that mechanic doesn't belong in a crpg and despite a larger market than ever, being able to easily purchase games online and a console release, didn't sell as well as the BG games did 20 years ago. They probably would have without the mechanic and just sticking to being a crpg.

You want to enjoy the game on it's terms, that's fine but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Yes, children often try to get their point across with insults, it's not your fault, you clearly don't know any better.
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
KM guide:

General Priorities:

0) The Curse is the only timer that matters and the only way you can get really screwed/lose the game. Be at HQ and free (not ranking-up/claiming) at exactly 14 days before it expires and you're good. Every day you don't handle it past that eats big stats. No reason for this ever to happen. Ideally you've got an advisor to do the one day project while you clear Hilltop causing the project to automatically succeed.

Global buffs/immunities that you can unlock via KM always apply at Hilltop since it's in your territory (so is Depths, and you can get Womb in your territory if you're quick):

Compulsion Immunity at Hilltop.jpg

Here Immunity to Compulsions, which is handy there.

1) Advisors: many hands make light work. The more advisors you've unlocked the less likely you are to miss problems/opportunities and the better you can match advisor strengths to each one that comes up. Some will have green/red tabs on them to indicate that certain advisors will get a bonus/malus if they're matched.

2) Regions: annexed regions unlock artisans, count as being in your territory for global buffs (see above), unlock resources for claiming, come with a significant stat boost, and by midgame host teleporters. I think they also reduce danger of random encounters? Some of the upgrades eventually provide a couple relevant bonuses.

3) Artisans: main income stream and best/most unique buildaround items in the game, also spawn quests for EXP.

Step-by-step plan for good start:

0) Prioritize Community to unlock Relations Advisor and North Narlmarches region. Build Windmill, Brewery, Granary in first few towns. Orphanage can even be decent since Loyalty is second priority (for Kamelands/Culture Advisor). More expensive equivalent Monument boosts adjacent Shrines (Divine unlocks Arcane for Teleporters). Need to get to 60 and rank III Community ASAP so every little bit is big including bldgs and map resources.

1) Claim Outskirts ASAP and build up town there. Sell all extra loot to get bldgs up. Getting to 20/40/60 in a stat unlocks rank-up which can boost stat etc... Don't put them off for anything but Curse.

2) Go to Sorrowflow as soon as you can handle it (main threat is random encounters on the way that can be bypassed with good enough stealth) to get Kanerah for Treasurer. After getting twins exit then re-enter area with full party to clear cave which unlocks KM project and has some good loot. Jub can replace her once Troll Trouble starts but there's a gap where she can help out (including on the Sorrowflow project).

3) On the way back you can claim some relatively valuable resources that are already on the eastern edge of your territory and clear at least first room of Barrow. Arbor Rock has +1 Warhammer and Diamond.

4) Hit Bridge for Trip Cloak and robbing Linnorm treasure with Stealth + Invis. Some other decent loot/EXP on map.

5) Go to Lone House and Ekun Tower map before Troll Trouble starts for extra loot and EXP. Lone House can be cleared three different times. Wait for quest to spawn there before going to Trobold.

6) Once you run out of funds for BP from selling loot and need another big chunk (I did it to claim North Narl before Trobold) *take the loan*. By the time it costs you more than you initially got you'll be rolling in cash and there's a project to turn off the penalty then anyway.

7) Do the Sweet Teeth quests in Sister's House as soon as they come up to get items for Artisan Quests and some EXP.

8) Once Artisans are established in North/South Narl and Kamelands and you've done their quests (early ch3) you'll have a nice income stream w/ good items to build your characters around and a good start building up the probability of getting their best items as the game goes on. Should be able to get all Advisors but Espionage by then too.
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
But there's not much strategy because you can't plan around what stats to get from events, success is highly random, etc etc.
I thought that too but you really can focus on getting the stats you need via bldgs and resources up to the threshold points that unlock big gains. Getting Community up early unlocks the extra advisor which gets a lot of other things rolling better (including results on events), and the stat boost from the additional region, additional map resources, another town of bldgs, etc...
 

Cael

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I didn't lie
Yes, you did. It's upthread for everyone to see. I "flew into a rage" to make sure you didn't try it again. Bad look.

Ok, thanks for the guide.
The guide is a lie anyway. YOU can be free and waiting for the curse. However, your ADVISORS may be stuck doing something else and then you are fucked because if you need a PARTICULAR advisor to solve that event, and he is tied up, you lose stats PER DAY (or per two days, I forgot) until he gets free and solve the problem.

Oh, and there is a repeatable event where you lose 500BP instantly, which will easily drive you into the negatives, AND YOU ARE NOT WARNED ABOUT THIS. And negative BP means your kingdom starts rioting. And if you don't have the spare cash at the time, you are basically PERMANENTLY FUCKED as it is extremely difficult to increase stability barring certain advisor level up events. And decreased stability means penalties to your advisors solving events. It is a spiral that you can't get out of because there is no way for you to fix it.
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
I forgot. Lower taxes when it gives you the choice so you can get your kingdom to Serene. There’s a couple other ways to lower unrest but Cael is right in general that its a pretty underdeveloped mechanic.

By the time the Bandits steal some of your treasury (I’ve only gotten that event once) you should be have cash on hand to take advantage of other events that pop you can use it on. There’s also a Kingdom Upgrade you can get that earns interest on cash on hand.

I’m not sure if the Curse event thing is a bug or what. I had it happen when I played a few months ago to test some (good) KM advice some guy was giving here upthread, but don’t remember it happening before.

Good idea to try to get as many advisors free as you can for that 14th day before the Curse to make sure you can handle it. Might even need to cancel an Opportunity if the advisor you need is tied up. I’d need to retest. Pretty sure multiple advisors can handle it.

On the bright side it’s an auto-success that only takes one day.
 

whydoibother

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The negro ranger is quite inoffensive, as far as diversity propaganda goes. He is for all intents and purposes, a white dude with blackface.
If your view of blacks is that they are ultravilent rapemonkeys junkies, than any politically correct depiction of a negro would seem to you just a white dude with blackface.
In a sense, you have to respect blacks as humans, in order to be offended that there's black characters who are actually black and not just color swapped whites.

Anyways, he speaks and is named african-ish. And he takes up the ranger role, in a game clearly meant for a druid or ranger protagonist.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
The negro ranger is quite inoffensive, as far as diversity propaganda goes. He is for all intents and purposes, a white dude with blackface.
If your view of blacks is that they are ultravilent rapemonkeys junkies, than any politically correct depiction of a negro would seem to you just a white dude with blackface.
In a sense, you have to respect blacks as humans, in order to be offended that there's black characters who are actually black and not just color swapped whites.

Anyways, he speaks and is named african-ish. And he takes up the ranger role, in a game clearly meant for a druid or ranger protagonist.
(1) That's in his quest. If he gets Kaepernicked she convinces him to hate whitey and he becomes the ultraviolent rapemonkey junkie.

(2) He's only a color-swapped white in the sense that he's product placed into a setting/role where he doesn't belong*, but unlike ads that do this his actual character/quest isn't simply the average Redditor's fantasy of their ideal self. If you respect blacks as humans you know that they can go either way, though the ones that go Ekun's way like yourself prefer to hang out with their own so you don't see them as much as the assholes who suck up to whites/are ultraviolent rapejunkies.

(3) The white guy whose job he took isn't there, and no the game is not meant for Druid/Ranger protagonist so he and Jewb (to buff Okbo) are close to optimal party members for anything other than variety/rp purposes.

* - I'm sure if jRPGs/anime had a run where all LG characters are mysteriously white Westerners people who are offended by this idea would all of a sudden figure out that something's up.
 

whydoibother

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He's black? I don't care.
He's a ranger? Not taking him in my party, sorry not sorry.

Also pretty sure the first new NPC you meet after the tutorial is a ranger Six Eyes whatever the fuck who lets you hire generic ranger companions. In this game about the fey protagonist replacing the archer nature guy as the leader of the magical forest barony. I hope you played as druid/ranger.
 

Desiderius

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Nah, I want to be a king not some treehugger fairyphag, but you do you. Plot is about manly civilization vs effeminate grass huts (how women who chase cads who abuse them undermine societies).

Mercs suck and so do bows until right around the time Ekun shows up.

Turns out I did have one woodsy MC, but she used Two-handed Combat Style Feats to get the big Cleaves/Vital Strikes (Standard Actions) going with Freebooter's Bane (Move Action) instead of Archery (Full Action):

CG Ranger MC.jpgBooter11crit.jpg
 
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LannTheStupid

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Pathfinder: Wrath
He's black? I don't care.
He's a ranger? Not taking him in my party, sorry not sorry.

Also pretty sure the first new NPC you meet after the tutorial is a ranger Six Eyes whatever the fuck who lets you hire generic ranger companions. In this game about the fey protagonist replacing the archer nature guy as the leader of the magical forest barony. I hope you played as druid/ranger.
I don't understand that.

Ekundayo has the largest point buy in the game (I think). He is, basically, a walking M2 Browning. He has a pet who is stronger than Regongar. His only minus is that he is not with the main hero during Act 1, but it would have been too much of a handicap for the poor Stag Lord. If you make your main a Ranger - he would be weaker than Ekun.

I guess some people just... have too much bone in their skulls. Mayhaps, me including.
 

Delterius

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Also pretty sure the first new NPC you meet after the tutorial is a ranger Six Eyes whatever the fuck who lets you hire generic ranger companions. In this game about the fey protagonist replacing the archer nature guy as the leader of the magical forest barony.
Ekun is really fucking powerful and you're wasting money hiring a generic ranger that is worse than him and can't even be a good councillor. Plus, there's no fey ranger so if that's your angle for a protagonist you'll be a druid or a sorcerer. Unless you're playing an archer yourself Ekun is a great add to any party.
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Well... I didn't have Ekun in my default Unfair party (though took him to Trobold/Hunting Grounds/Womb):

Reasons Ekun isn't *THAT* good in vanilla P:K:

1) Combat Style: Archery is the weakest Combat Style by far in vanilla which unlike CotW lacks Cover mechanics (so Improved Precise does very little - Echolocation duplicates it and gives Gaze Immunity) and Ranged Teamwork Feats. Other Combat styles can give you Two-Weapon Fighting Feats without DEX reqs, Shield Mastery at lvl 6, the Cleave Feats, or bypass prereqs for Shatter Defenses. To add insult to injury Ekun has already burned two regular Feats the Combat Style offers when you get him.

2) Favored Enemy: Ekun comes with one level of Magical Beast and two of Giant Humanoids. While this makes him a beast in Trobold and pretty good in Ch3 (and tbf against Zombie Giants in Vord Tomb) unlike Wrath P:K presents a wide variety of creature types among the most dangerous foes and he can end up spread pretty thin if you make him a default party member (instead of focusing him for part time use). Wrath tried to emulate this environment by dividing up Demon types but that didn't go over very well. So my Nomad Lann gets +10 AB/dam vs Demons (most foes) while Ekun would get a much more modest bonus.

3) Okbo: pets are much weaker in P:K than Wrath because they level slower and can't use equipment. Dog in particular can be a nonbo for an Archer because Prone gives a -4 AB malus to Ranged attax. With modest if any Favored Enemy bonus and the -2 Oversized Malus on Devourer of Metal Bow (which is only +1 itself) Ekun can already run into issues landing his iteratives, especially if trying to take advantage of Deadly Aim. Pets are a 3/4 BAB class and only get 3 levels for every 4 levels of their master in P:K so even though Ekun has burned a Feat on Boon Companion when you meet him Okbo's BAB itself isn't that great. Without Shield from Jub his AC can be an issue and his saves aren't very good either.

4) Point buy. 20 DEX is fine but only boils down to +1 AB over 18 (no DEX to damage and AC rarely matters) for 7 CPs. 16 STR is a couple extra pts of damage maybe because unlike Power Strike Deadly Aim doesn't multiply STR bonus. 15 WIS means burning a stat boost at lvl 8 to round it off and doesn't really come into play since he's not beating saves.

I gave Jae Devourer of Metal instead since she gets Judgements, Divine Favor/Power, and Bane Weapon:

Jae13Inqcrit.jpgJae14Castigate, Mass.jpgJae13Inqowning Devourer.jpg

Jae can also cast AoEs vs ambushes.

Valerie went TSS1/Feyspeaker to get full Smilo that was much stronger on offense than Okbo (and obviously available earlier) and didn't give ranged malus from Prone, while Feyspeaker Val provided a good tank (with Displacement/Mirror Image) and spells up to level 9.

Val14tank.jpgValFeyspeakerOwning.jpgVal14SmilomaulingDemonBless.jpgVal's revenge.jpg

I Wild Shaped Val once she hit Smilo though it probably wasn't worth it since Wild Shaping hasn't really been supported yet (hope to see it in new DLC) but she's still tanking fine in first pic and getting revenge against Evil Sheyln guy in last one (note Pounce from Wild Shape). She's also full caster Druid which eventually comes in handy and you can see Smilo putting his Pounce to use in other pic. Early game Val tanked well with Full Plate and Tower Shield (though she couldn't re-equip them as Druid).
 
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whydoibother

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Okay, so I only got into this conversation to mock people not hiring an NPC because he's black. HOWEVER, I do strongly believe that the protagonist should be fay/natura/outsider/forest guy for this module. The obvious pick is Druid, and the module makes most sense for a druid. Ranger is a close second.
This is also shown by your initial party members covering the other generic roles, except druid and ranger. The one druidy guy you meet early can't be a companion, that old believer tree cleric man. And the one ranger you meet early is the first boss you have to kill. So clearly the authors of the module meant for the player to pick one of those two classes.

The blax folx thing I don't care about, I was just trolling. The protagonist should be druid/ranger thing I do care about, and I am right, and you are wrong.
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I do strongly believe that the protagonist should be fay/natura/outsider/forest guy for this module. The obvious pick is Druid, and the module makes most sense for a druid. Ranger is a close second.

Owlcat just hates Nature Divine theme.

Both Kingmaker and WOTR have ample chance for massive Druid/Nature related content. The Feys in case of KM alongside, you know, the bloody wild untamed land of the Stolen Land. Hell, there are even slight glimpse of it here and there (Witch Hut). WOTR has you know the fucking Sarkorian.

But in both nothing happens. No Nature themed Mythic too (Azata doesn't count). I guess they try to fix it with this latest DLC but it won't fundamentally change that there is a big "DRUID CONTENT HERE" hole in both KM and WOTR.
 
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whydoibother

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Yet another thing that blessed Swen and holy Larian fix with their upcoming masterpiece Baldur's Gate 3: Age of Incline.
First settlement you visit: Druid Grove. First big quest chain: Druid Circle drama. First rescue and escort mission: A druid stuck in bear form. First big side quest: A wild witch.

Available for preorder now.
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Yet another thing that blessed Swen and holy Larian fix with their upcoming masterpiece Baldur's Gate 3: Age of Incline.
First settlement you visit: Druid Grove. First big quest chain: Druid Circle drama. First rescue and escort mission: A druid stuck in bear form. First big side quest: A wild witch.

Available for preorder now.

You won't sway me with your honeyed word Larian Devil! Begone!
 

Delterius

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The obvious pick is Druid, and the module makes most sense for a druid. Ranger is a close second.
I'd say Sylvan/Fey Sorcerer is even more aligned with that theme, making Rangers a third option. More importantly it's not like you can't rotate your companions. I try to use all of them where it's appropriate. Having two Rangers some times, wether one of them is melee or both are archers is perfectly fine IMO.
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
There’s only one archetype that is setting specific, and it even has it’s own Preftige Class.

Aldori Defender/Swordlord or go home.
 

Delterius

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There’s only one archetype that is setting specific, and it even has it’s own Preftige Class.

Aldori Defender/Swordlord or go home.
Eh, I guess it can work and especially if you add modded backgrounds which include the campaign specific ones. Ie brevic nobility. But if the tabletop Kingmaker was a sandbox, the CRPG Kingmaker makes some clear choices in its story. Whereas some tabletop campaigns are outright about the Brevoy Civil War, this one is about Nyrissa, the fey, and the nature curses. In that sense I'd say that Sylvan/Fey Sorcerer, Feyspeaker, Defender of the True World, are all archetypes with the most narrative alignment.

Plus CN has the best town square even Wrath agrees.
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
There’s only one archetype that is setting specific, and it even has it’s own Preftige Class.

Aldori Defender/Swordlord or go home.
Eh, I guess it can work and especially if you add modded backgrounds which include the campaign specific ones. Ie brevic nobility. But if the tabletop Kingmaker was a sandbox, the CRPG Kingmaker makes some clear choices in its story. Whereas some tabletop campaigns are outright about the Brevoy Civil War, this one is about Nyrissa, the fey, and the nature curses. In that sense I'd say that Sylvan/Fey Sorcerer, Feyspeaker, Defender of the True World, are all archetypes with the most narrative alignment.

Plus CN has the best town square even Wrath agrees.
Yes, you’re the civilizing force fighting to break the Stolen Lands out of that same repetitive, destructive (natural? unnatural?) cycle it’s been stuck in for a thousand iterations.



(Apocalypse literally means “from the cycle.”) Maybe Defending the True World against the depredations of the First is enough, but I think your Kingdom is probably going to need something a little more Progressive than that lest they wallow in a merely base existence of man against man and dog eat dog (and remain the plaything of the surrounding kingdoms).
 

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