Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Yosharian]

1 - There are no pure arcane companion(Octavia has 1 rogue level), note that there are 2 cleric companions

Eh, it annoys me a little that people bring this up so often. Sure, she has the rogue level cause she's set up to become an Arcane Trickster. By far the best Prestige Class if you're at least somewhat interested in dealing damage as a caster.
It's just 1 caster level lost and the gains are huge, particularly after AT 10.

She is a fantastic arcane caster IMO. Could have a little more Con and her Spell School Specialization is not that great, but overall a great character and a great asset to a party.

The problem isn't that she's setup to be an arcane trickster, it's that there's no pure arcane companion.
If I had to guess, they planned on making Bartholomew a companion.

The point is that many players enjoy customizing their characters to a high degree, and having choices like this foisted on them mars their enjoyment of the companions. That's why people bring it up. It annoys me when people defend baked-in character development using the logic of 'well it doesn't bother me because the character is still good'.

Players shouldn't have to use mods to customize companions. It should be an option built into the game.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

And if you don't want to use mods you have to choose between using a story companion vs faceless mercenary, imo not a good choice.
There's really no reason to not allow full customization of companions if you allow arbitrarily hiring mercenaries.

 

[Cael]

And if you don't want to use mods you have to choose between using a story companion vs faceless mercenary, imo not a good choice.
There's really no reason to not allow full customization of companions if you allow arbitrarily hiring mercenaries.

One of the reasons why I have no compunction making my companions multiclass or dual in BG. And one of the reasons why I like Imoen and Viconia so much in BG: You literally can get them at level 1.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

And if you don't want to use mods you have to choose between using a story companion vs faceless mercenary, imo not a good choice.
There's really no reason to not allow full customization of companions if you allow arbitrarily hiring mercenaries.

One of the reasons why I have no compunction making my companions multiclass or dual in BG. And one of the reasons why I like Imoen and Viconia so much in BG: You literally can get them at level 1.

It’s been a minute since I played early game KM (and I know you’re very proud of not having done so at all), but my recollection is that this is effectively the same in Kingmaker with one notable exception (Octavia). The only difference here is that Kingmaker’s companions are sitting on an experience pool scaled to the MC once they’re recruited; so, for example, while Imoen always has Thief (1) when recruited, Nok-Nok always has Knifemaster (1) + 50kish xp to spend when recruited.
I could be mistaken here, knowledgeable bros correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Ruchy]

Just met a wild hunt dude in the depths at level 10, these boys are bad news.

 

[Yosharian]

It’s been a minute since I played early game KM (and I know you’re very proud of not having done so at all), but my recollection is that this is effectively the same in Kingmaker with one notable exception (Octavia). The only difference here is that Kingmaker’s companions are sitting on an experience pool scaled to the MC once they’re recruited; so, for example, while Imoen always has Thief (1) when recruited, Nok-Nok always has Knifemaster (1) + 50kish xp to spend when recruited.
I could be mistaken here, knowledgeable bros correct me if I’m wrong.

You get a feat at level 1 and its invariably spent on something trash. Attribute score distributions are one thing, since they can be tied to a character's personality, but there is fuck-all reason for Valerie, for example, to have Toughness, Dodge, and Bastard Sword proficiency as her starting feats. Those have nothing to do with her personality.

 

[Cael]

And if you don't want to use mods you have to choose between using a story companion vs faceless mercenary, imo not a good choice.
There's really no reason to not allow full customization of companions if you allow arbitrarily hiring mercenaries.

One of the reasons why I have no compunction making my companions multiclass or dual in BG. And one of the reasons why I like Imoen and Viconia so much in BG: You literally can get them at level 1.

It’s been a minute since I played early game KM (and I know you’re very proud of not having done so at all), but my recollection is that this is effectively the same in Kingmaker with one notable exception (Octavia). The only difference here is that Kingmaker’s companions are sitting on an experience pool scaled to the MC once they’re recruited; so, for example, while Imoen always has Thief (1) when recruited, Nok-Nok always has Knifemaster (1) + 50kish xp to spend when recruited.
I could be mistaken here, knowledgeable bros correct me if I’m wrong.

You seem to think that it is somehow an attack on bugmaker that I prefer Imoen and Viconia vs other BG companions. Paiturd must pay you well to shill that hard.

 

[Cryomancer]

Eh, it annoys me a little that people bring this up so often. Sure, she has the rogue level cause she's set up to become an Arcane Trickster. By far the best Prestige Class if you're at least somewhat interested in dealing damage as a caster.

Arcane Triskster is only good due the fact that they changed pnp rules and made sneak attacks much easier. Also, she is specialized, so unless you play as a arcane 'charname', or you create storyless mercenaries or you will not see all arcane spells. Is not an problem for me, since i love to play as Sorcerer, but i see it as an huge problem for other people.

And if you don't want to use mods you have to choose between using a story companion vs faceless mercenary, imo not a good choice.
There's really no reason to not allow full customization of companions if you allow arbitrarily hiring mercenaries.

I Strongly agree. I Mean, make Octavia an Barbarian would't make any sense, but make her an pure arcane caster isn't lore breaking. On PoE 2, the game gives class choices to your companion that makes sense and gives 3 options per companion.

 

[Shadenuat]

Companions should be their own stuff, with personalities and challenges to overcome in building them.

Game simply should have had more companions and less quests for them that is all. There is already a ton of classes in PK who can handle rogue stuff anyway (Alch, Inq, Bard, Nok-Nok).

 

[Yosharian]

I Strongly agree. I Mean, make Octavia an Barbarian would't make any sense, but make her an pure arcane caster isn't lore breaking. On PoE 2, the game gives class choices to your companion that makes sense and gives 3 options per companion.

Here's a small flaw in your argument: you can make her a Barbarian. Easily. You just can't remove those initial levels in other classes, without mods. So it's really laughable to say that it wouldn't 'make sense' for Octavia to be a Barbarian. How about we give players the option to make companions whatever fucking classes they please.

 

[Efe]

my octavia wrote off magic taught to her by technic league.
shes choose an original path for herself, broke off with the orc that was glad for the power tecnic league gave him and is now duel wielding scimitars with her pet panther regonhywar.

see, anything is possible if you larp hard enough

 

[Yosharian]

my octavia wrote off magic taught to her by technic league.
shes choose an original path for herself, broke off with the orc that was glad for the power tecnic league gave him and is now duel wielding scimitars with her pet panther regonhywar.

see, anything is possible if you larp hard enough

My Octavia abandoned the adventuring life to shine my fucking boots for the rest of her miserable existence

 

[Desiderius]

Cephal is the best arcane companion in the game.

Made him Arcane Trickster and Octavia Eldritch Archer (in the main). Got tired of micromanaging his Grease Pits of Death. Summoning is a dece way to not die, but it feels like playing that oldtime electric football game where the field shakes and players run in random directions.

Octavia: EA6/R4/W2 so far. Needed somebody to use all these wands. She uses them at lvl (magus arcana) combined with a full bab oversized bow shot and 3d6 sneak. Two more full bab shots (manyshot), and one more at - 5. Doesn’t get touch AC but has more BAB to make up for it. Combos with Amiri’s Freebooters Bane + 3.

Cephal: has a cute little Acid Arrow attack that I used Arcane Trickster to spice up with sneak dice.

He’s set up to be a summoner, but I’d rather do the fighting, not uncontrollable dorks. Alternatively as an op conjurer he gets the buffed pit line of spells which target reflex aoe like Grease, and we all know how good Grease is.

Those too are a pain in the ass since your own side often fall in if you’re not careful. So Arcane Trickster it was.

 

[jf8350143]

So if you can customise the companion completely, what's the point of giving them a background?

Hey here is this barbarian who constantly states she didn't like magic, but you can still make her a caster just because you can.

 

[Efe]

with those stats?
no you actually cant make her a even half decent caster

 

[Jeru]

How about we give players the option to make companions whatever fucking classes they please.

That only makes sense in tactical heavy combat focus games such like IWD, XCom, JA

It does not make sense in crpg. In them BG1&2 style like limited influence approach is much more interesting.

 

[Desiderius]

How about we give players the option to make companions whatever fucking classes they please.

That only makes sense in tactical heavy combat focus games such like IWD, XCom, JA

It does not make sense in crpg. In them BG1&2 style like limited influence approach is much more interesting.

with those stats?
no you actually cant make her a even half decent caster

She casts Freebooters Bane, Bond, Longstrider, and Barkskin just fine. Also gets the good cleave feats without the crappy prereqs.

 

[Yosharian]

So if you can customise the companion completely, what's the point of giving them a background?

Hey here is this barbarian who constantly states she didn't like magic, but you can still make her a caster just because you can.

Who are you talking about? Amiri?

Anyway, the point is (jesus christ why do I have to keep saying this) players get to choose the degree to which they adhere to the imaginary role-playing restrictions that the developers (and other players, apparently) have in mind when they write their companion characters.

What the fuck is up with players telling other players how to role-play in singleplayer games? I just do not understand this arrogant attitude at all.

How about we give players the option to play their CRPGs however the fuck they want.

 

[Shadenuat]

TB Mod Unfair, won combat on first try.

Valerie got Feared and spent most time running until end of battle
Amiri died moment she appeared from assassin I feared rounds before (huh, I thought she's invulnerable)
Others provided distraction and did something, while Jaethal killed them all with a Scythe while my char (Thassilonian Necro) used 3 Color Sprays, tiefling girl also killed someone

This is first time I killed all Channel Rifters before others to learn that it does nothing

Enemies were very much interested in anything but killing high initiative main flanking them with color sprays. And they love to stand in AOO and such, which you don't notice as much in RTwP.

Overall TB Unfair is a lot easier actually than I thought it would be. Sadly it seems like it breaks lots of stuff - for example modals like Combat Expertise.

But it is very rewarding to simply outmaneuver enemies with combination of dazes, fears, ranged attacks, capturing them flatfooted, charging, etc.

even this i like more than deadfire with tb mode

 

[smaug]

The game is a lot easier turn-based from my expierence so far.

I’m playing on hard and everything up to trolls has been easy.

 

[Cael]

The game is a lot easier turn-based from my expierence so far.

I’m playing on hard and everything up to trolls has been easy.

It is the same with any game. TB gives you time to plan and the characters have finite reach. RT is far more chaotic and when you have tons of mobs, it is difficult to see everything that is going on and react accordingly. It is also hard to issue orders to all your characters unless you keep slamming the pause key.

There are also things that don't translate well between TB and RT and vice versa, which opens up exploits. The most infamous of this would be the 5ft step in DnD, which is impossible to implement in RT.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

So if you can customise the companion completely, what's the point of giving them a background?

Hey here is this barbarian who constantly states she didn't like magic, but you can still make her a caster just because you can.

because it's my game and stop being a fucking socialist who wants to control what I do
god damn commies

 

[smaug]

So if you can customise the companion completely, what's the point of giving them a background?

Hey here is this barbarian who constantly states she didn't like magic, but you can still make her a caster just because you can.

because it's my game and stop being a fucking socialist who wants to control what I do
god damn commies

Why is there so many communists on the codex?

 

[Shadenuat]

It is the same with any game. TB gives you time to plan and the characters have finite reach. RT is far more chaotic and when you have tons of mobs, it is difficult to see everything that is going on and react accordingly.

If you pause like mad or just have reflexes of a mountain dew you can deal with it.

The truth is, I think, is just that AI which is bound to sequential turns is simply easier to predict and take out one mob after another. This is why developers of TB games add all these spawns, initiative crutches, mission timers, etc.

It is a lot harder to fight AI which decides that hurr, I am gonna just use these 3 archers to nuke player's Tristian/Octavia moment they show up in split second.

 

[smaug]

It is the same with any game. TB gives you time to plan and the characters have finite reach. RT is far more chaotic and when you have tons of mobs, it is difficult to see everything that is going on and react accordingly.

If you pause like mad or just have reflexes of a mountain dew you can deal with it.

The truth is, I think, is just that AI which is bound to sequential turns is simply easier to predict and take out one mob after another. This is why developers of TB games add all these spawns, initiative crutches, mission timers, etc.

Doesn’t KOTC have stupidly smart AI that can react to everything you do?