Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[smaug]

Anything is better than RTwP.

 

[Jeru]

No.

Also there were games with two combat systems/philospohies merging at same time - so there will be no explanation "I didn't know" if anyone make such again.

 

[Cryomancer]

Anything is better than RTwP.

In PfK you can make the game pause at end of each turn, so will be very TB like, except that everyone will take action at the same time

 

[smaug]

Anything is better than RTwP.

In PfK you can make the game pause at end of each turn, so will be very TB like, except that everyone will take action at the same time

It’s not the same though. The IE games were probably the RPGs I looked forward to the most, playing. I can’t stand the combat though, sadly I’ll never enjoy those games.

 

[Shadenuat]

I wanna be able to choose between turn based and real time at will like M&M VI-VIII. Why i can't?

Great example, as MM switch was dumb as hell. Turn off tb to fall down and avoid dragon fire. Strafe around with blasters at mach 7. Not even talking about stuff like weapon attack speed difference, where archers could fire arrow-lazer beams if you max their skills enough.

 

[Sykar]

I put people who can't handle companions having their own classes into same category who can't play game without option to hide their helmets

The problem is not that. Is the fact that you can make Linzie learn an Figther level, but can't make Octavia an pure Wiz. "hur dur arcane tricksters have insane damage" only because sneak attack is broken since is different from pnp.

And I don't want to play the game in RTwP, does that mean it shouldn't be forced as well?

I wanna be able to choose between turn based and real time at will like M&M VI-VIII. Why i can't?

An AT is still as good as a pure wizard overall, just has a somewhat narrower focus on sneak attack damage spells but still provides all the goodies a pure wizard offers, so what is the problem? Her rogue level makes sense in lieu of her backstory, trying repeatedly to escape from the Technic League for which rogue makes perfect sense. Her abilities as a wizard mirrors the background that she got basic wizard training. I see no problem there, if you are so hellbent on getting a pure wizard, make a merc or let your pc do it. Octavia is also the only one where you are essentially led on into the AT prestige class. Anyone else has other options. Amiri can get some warriors levels, Linzi can go EK, stay pure bard, whatever. So because if one character not being a "pure class" you guys make a fuss over one negligible level which opens up a strong prestige class. As to sneak attack being broken, that is an entirely different matter, but thanks to the Surprise Spell feature a meaningless criticism even if it were not.

 

[Shadenuat]

As I said problem is there is only 1 sorta pure arcane caster in the game. In Baldur's Gate you had like 4.

 

[Sykar]

As I said problem is there is only 1 sorta pure arcane caster in the game. In Baldur's Gate you had like 4.

I would rather have an additional companion or two instead of removing the rogue level from Ocvatia. It is clear that Owlcat had a clear vision about her, clearer than other character imho which is fine. You still have plenty of room for the other characters.

 

[Cryomancer]

I would rather have an additional companion or two instead of removing the rogue level from Ocvatia. <...>

I strongly agree. This is why i suggested an DLC with Witch. An more pathfinder unique arcane caster, with an unique type of "spells"(HEXES), unique dinamic with the familiar and patron and would fit an campaign with a lot of feyfolk. If i could create an companion for PfK, i would create an dhampir witch with chaotic neutral alignment who got ostracized due his "heritage" on Pitax(or other city) and started to learn magic with an "outsider teacher", his patron would have an winter theme since there are already a lot of focus on fire on cRPG's.

Great example, as MM switch was dumb as hell. Turn off tb to fall down and avoid dragon fire. Strafe around with blasters at mach 7. Not even talking about stuff like weapon attack speed difference, where archers could fire arrow-lazer beams if you max their skills enough.

The problem is that projectiles are not fast as they should be and should track the player. Is not an fault of allowing TB and RT in the same game. Note that was an company experienced with grid turn based games going RT for the first time.

Late added TB in original RTwP game is a easy slog fest. Late added RTwP in original TB is messy annoying clusterfuck. Trying to balance it for both equally from early developement will make it medicore at best at both.

I disagree. First because balance is not the main focus of an cRPG. Second because on eye of the beholder or on baldur's gate, cone of cold is an amazing spell on both for eg. Third because Pathfinder Kingmaker has an MOD to be played in turn based and works well. PoE2 received an turn based mode from devs and worked well too. Sure, firearms and armor become much better on turn based but IMO they are unnecessarily nerfed on normal mode.

 

[Jeru]

I disagree. First because balance is not the main focus of an cRPG. Second because on eye of the beholder or on baldur's gate, cone of cold is an amazing spell on both for eg. Third because Pathfinder Kingmaker has an MOD to be played in turn based and works well. PoE2 received an turn based mode from devs and worked well too. Sure, firearms and armor become much better on turn based but IMO they are unnecessarily nerfed on normal mode.

Those mods makes those games easy and SLOW when played in TB. Because number of enemies and duration of fights were made with characters and mobs making their actions concurently.

It is not about balance, it is about gameplay. If developers will try to make such games with both RTwP & TB, with a toggle to switch betwenn them, then they will try to adress those issues and then end result will be a worse game than it could be. It was tried before and it does not end well.

 

[Cryomancer]

Those mods makes those games easy and SLOW when played in TB. Because number of enemies and duration of fights were made with characters and mobs making their actions concurently.

Yes, you are right. Anyway, if i wanna play PfK on unfair, i would play on turn based or at least with pausing in the end of each turn.

 

[Efe]

As I said problem is there is only 1 sorta pure arcane caster in the game. In Baldur's Gate you had like 4.

then go play baldurs gate?
this is called pathfinder: kingmaker

 

[Jeru]

Yes, you are right. Anyway, if i wanna play PfK on unfair, i would play on turn based or at least with pausing in the end of each turn.

It is not just about individual fights, but it makes whole game much longer and tedious because each trivial trash fight last significanly longer. Then when you take into account that many crpg games have a problem with too many pointless filler fights in first place, then you can see how it becomes problem. From gameplay quality point of view, if you dislike RTwP it is much better to wish for a game to be pure TB game designed like that from the start.

 

[smaug]

Yes, you are right. Anyway, if i wanna play PfK on unfair, i would play on turn based or at least with pausing in the end of each turn.

It is not just about individual fights, but it makes whole game much longer and tedious because each trivial trash fight last significanly longer. Then when you take into account that many crpg games have a problem with too many pointless filler fights in first place, then you can see how it becomes problem. From gameplay quality point of view, if you dislike RTwP it is much better to wish for a game to be pure TB game designed like that from the start.

The fights aren’t long, download the speed mod.

 

[Jeru]

For you no TB fights will be too long considering your original stance.

 

[smaug]

For you no TB fights will be too long considering your original stance.

Yea, a speed option takes care of that.

 

[Shadenuat]

Some fights become harder than in RTwP. Some from impossible turn into very much possible.

This one turned into commandoes behind enemy lines since is p hard on Unfair on level 2 (val was level 1 lol) with stock party

in the end Amiri managed to charge and kill "hidden archer" who after we killed everyone (he killed Valerie running him away from main fight while he was feared) machine gunned whole party (i swear its fucking legolas or something) as they tried to charge and AOO him
we were left with main wiz/rogue and Amiri and wonz.

TB mode can be p fun.
in RTwP maybe I could have degenerated it somehow, but in TB you can stick to the plan and with some luck and non shitty rolls execute it.

Also hohoho, motherfuckers

Spoiler

I have the high ground.
That rabbit familiar doing all the job.

 

[Desiderius]

So if you can customise the companion completely, what's the point of giving them a background?

Hey here is this barbarian who constantly states she didn't like magic, but you can still make her a caster just because you can.

because it's my game and stop being a fucking socialist who wants to control what I do
god damn commies

You can play tennis with a Stradivarius if you choose, but if you get your panties in a bunch when someone points out it’s suboptimal it’s not the pointer outer who’s the commie.

 

[Desiderius]

I wanna be able to choose between turn based and real time at will like M&M VI-VIII. Why i can't?

Great example, as MM switch was dumb as hell. Turn off tb to fall down and avoid dragon fire. Strafe around with blasters at mach 7. Not even talking about stuff like weapon attack speed difference, where archers could fire arrow-lazer beams if you max their skills enough.

The poison monsters in Wizards and Warriors that exploited the gap between RT and TB were the worst. Had to give the game up until discovering a solution on the interweb years later.

 

[Haplo]

Eh, it annoys me a little that people bring this up so often. Sure, she has the rogue level cause she's set up to become an Arcane Trickster. By far the best Prestige Class if you're at least somewhat interested in dealing damage as a caster.

Arcane Triskster is only good due the fact that they changed pnp rules and made sneak attacks much easier.

That is convenient throughout the game, when her Acid Splashes do decent damage to "flanked" targets, true.

But late game its a bit meaningless after she reaches the AT capstone and can aoe sneak attack everyone on-screen with Impromptu Sneak Attack/Invisible Thief, regardless of the flanking rules.

 

[ArchAngel]

Eh, it annoys me a little that people bring this up so often. Sure, she has the rogue level cause she's set up to become an Arcane Trickster. By far the best Prestige Class if you're at least somewhat interested in dealing damage as a caster.

Arcane Triskster is only good due the fact that they changed pnp rules and made sneak attacks much easier.

That is convenient throughout the game, when her Acid Splashes do decent damage to "flanked" targets, true.

But late game its a bit meaningless after she reaches the AT capstone and can aoe sneak attack everyone on-screen with Impromptu Sneak Attack/Invisible Thief, regardless of the flanking rules.

Why wait that long, when she has access to improved invisibility every attack is a sneak attack.

 

[Haplo]

True, of course.
But you probably won't have 100% uptime on Improved Invisibility.
So before "flanking" still helps a lot.

Later on it's much more impressive with Surprise Spells Capstone - and on-demand with these 2 abilities.

 

[ArchAngel]

True, of course.
But you probably won't have 100% uptime on Improved Invisibility.
So before "flanking" still helps a lot.

Later on it's much more impressive with Surprise Spells Capstone - and on-demand with these 2 abilities.

You don't need her sneak attack on 100% uptime. 90% of encounters you don't even need her at all, your fighters can solve them themselves. For those few tougher ones you will be using web or grease or haste anyways and improved invisibility is mostly for bosses or when you run into very high AC characters that your touch attack sneak attack can work well on.

 

[Shadenuat]

Seems like Faerie Fire now works on Primal creatures canceling their blur. The death bacon at Elk's is so much easier with it.

 

[btbgfel]

Merc advisors are still bugged somewhat. I created a merc as temporary replacement for tristian, kicked him out of roster when I got tristian back, only to find ekun the usurper grabbed all positions but the regent. He didn't even appoint his doggie as the grand diplomat!

It's fixed by appointing a valid councillor, then save and reload though.