Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[ArchAngel]

I think when I go back to this game my plan is next: TB mod, challenging difficulty, 4 man custom party (with normal XP sharing so they don't over level).

The idea is to simulate PnP. 4 man parties and custom characters is standard. TB if of course PnP way and challenging difficulty so enemy stats don't go too much over their PnP counterparts, mostly so enemy saves don't make my casters useless. I think I will still skip on animal companions as they are broken and not like in PnP. Also I am skipping on Alchemists and Kineticists, both are unbalanced.

I might have a problem with carry capacity but I will find a way to manage it. If it gets too irritating I will add two of the standard companions and up the difficulty to Hard.

 

[Cael]

Which is only possible because of the way they broke the rules in the first place. You don't count sneak attack damage multiple times for the same attack. I believe even the devs admitted it was a bug, so what you are doing is basically abusing a bug. Take that away, and how well would the same spell and class combo be compared to others?

Hmm, actually still not bad at that spell level.

Doing 17d6 / 14d6 damage in a huge aoe, no save, no Evasion vs 22d6 in a bit smaller aoe with Reflex save for half / Evasion for 0.
And end game enemies mostly have high Reflex. Ghastly Guardians also have Evasion.
Or 5d6 vs 10d6 if no AT.

At 10 AT, you are character level what? 16? (it was 18 for the original 3.5; maybe 16 with shenannigans). That is pretty end game stuff.

 

[Haplo]

Well, to be honest, if you use your brain, target the right saves and optimize spell DCs, you can somewhat reliably defeat enemy defenses even on Unfair.

 

[Cael]

Well, to be honest, if you use your brain, target the right saves and optimize spell DCs, you can somewhat reliably defeat enemy defenses even on Unfair.

Considering that my mages in PnP tend to target things other than hp 90% of the time, you are preaching to the choir where that is concerned. I leave the bloodletting to my party members.

 

[ArchAngel]

Well, to be honest, if you use your brain, target the right saves and optimize spell DCs, you can somewhat reliably defeat enemy defenses even on Unfair.

Somewhat reliable is the problem. I want to have PnP experience where mages in 4 man parties can reliably defeat enemy weak saves.

 

[Haplo]

At 10 AT, you are character level what? 16? (it was 18 for the original 3.5; maybe 16 with shenannigans). That is pretty end game stuff.

14, if wizard based. Not early, certainly. But doable by late Act 3 in a full party.

 

[Haplo]

Well, to be honest, if you use your brain, target the right saves and optimize spell DCs, you can somewhat reliably defeat enemy defenses even on Unfair.

Somewhat reliable is the problem. I want to have PnP experience where mages in 4 man parties can reliably defeat enemy weak saves.

Well, if against an enemy group you land aoe hard CC vs 50-90% of the enemies, that's good enough in my book.

Optimized builds reach 100% even on Unfair vs valid targets.

 

[Cael]

At 10 AT, you are character level what? 16? (it was 18 for the original 3.5; maybe 16 with shenannigans). That is pretty end game stuff.

14, if wizard based. Not early, certainly. But doable by late Act 3.

Paiturd lowered the requirements for a pretty powerful class. Why am I not surprised. Original requirements: 2d6 sneak attack, 3rd level spells. Usually Rogue 3/Wizard 5, but with a bit of shenannigans and splatbooks, you can lower that.

 

[Haplo]

At 10 AT, you are character level what? 16? (it was 18 for the original 3.5; maybe 16 with shenannigans). That is pretty end game stuff.

14, if wizard based. Not early, certainly. But doable by late Act 3.

Paiturd lowered the requirements for a pretty powerful class. Why am I not surprised. Original requirements: 2d6 sneak attack, 3rd level spells. Usually Rogue 3/Wizard 5, but with a bit of shenannigans and splatbooks, you can lower that.

Now its level 2 spells. And 2d6 sneaks, which requires 1 level in rogue or Vivisectionist (a pretty good choice, end game you can add another level for Cognatogen and +4 Int) + Accomplished sneak attacker. Or more levels in another class that has a slower sneak attack progression.

 

[ArchAngel]

AT is pretty powerful in pathfinder with access to accomplished sneak attack feat. If it forced you to be rogue 3 or Vivi 3 before you can become AT it would be much more balanced. Then you actually sacrifice something real for all the extra power you get.

 

[Shadenuat]

I think when I go back to this game my plan is next: TB mod, challenging difficulty, 4 man custom party

You'll die from boredom. TB needs higher difficulty to stay relevant. And having more party members makes combat go quicker. Since you're often locked to 1 attack due to action economy. Go full 6 party or prepare to spend hours killing random stuff.

If that's your idea of fun - to carpet bomb an area and stay the fuck away from it (cause its deadly for your party too) and wait for enemies to die - and repeat the procedure hundreds of times - more power to you.

With a caveat that you only do it endgame, and before you just spam 1-2 abilities facerolling on your keyboard. Any Caster or 6 level Caster class is more interesting than this.
oh woe me what ability I use
kinetic blast
or cause I can't reach too far, extended range kinetic blast
decisions, decisions

 

[razvedchiki]

What difficulty lvl for turn based mod?
I have played up to hard in real.

 

[Shadenuat]

Highest you can, but I can say that Unfair is a lot more doable in TB than in RTwP. (a few rare exceptions with ambushes/archer/enemy winning initiative exist but overall it is easier)

AT is pretty powerful in pathfinder with access to accomplished sneak attack feat. If it forced you to be rogue 3 or Vivi 3 before you can become AT it would be much more balanced. Then you actually sacrifice something real for all the extra power you get.

They say in PnP using enhanced sneak feat for qualifying for class is considered degenerate so maybe it is supposed to be 3 levels at least.

 

[ArchAngel]

I think when I go back to this game my plan is next: TB mod, challenging difficulty, 4 man custom party

You'll die from boredom. TB needs higher difficulty to stay relevant. And having more party members makes combat go quicker. Since you're often locked to 1 attack due to action economy. Go full 6 party or prepare to spend hours killing random stuff.

If that's your idea of fun - to carpet bomb an area and stay the fuck away from it (cause its deadly for your party too) and wait for enemies to die - and repeat the procedure hundreds of times - more power to you.

With a caveat that you only do it endgame, and before you just spam 1-2 abilities facerolling on your keyboard. Any Caster or 6 level Caster class is more interesting than this.
oh woe me what ability I use
kinetic blast
or cause I can't reach too far, extended range kinetic blast
decisions, decisions

You don't know who you are talking to. I played Underrail with a stealth crossbow guy in stealth most of the game using 0 speed hacks. Took me 120h to get to Deep Caverns. Loved every hour of it.
I think I will be OK with slower killing of enemies in PFK.

 

[Shadenuat]

Took me 120h to get to Deep Caverns

ah, an autist

well suit yourself. I find the larger party = the more fun. it also allows building characters for TB in interesting ways you don't build them in RTwP like going cleave, vital strike, or various combat maneuvers while trying new things with casters as well (I am actually sneak attacking in melee with AT sometimes with +2d6 amulet). More characters = more possible build combos to try.

 

[entr0py]

Hey guys, does the dagger Edict (-3 Will for 1 minute when you hit the enemy) works at all? If it works, does it stack? If need be I will test it, but maybe you guys know it already

 

[Shadenuat]

I think it works, although don't remember it stacking no.

 

[deuxhero]

entr0py
I don't know if works on not, but I doubt it would stack. Unless a rider is damage/drain (HP or ability.) it won't stack with itself. Multiple hits will however reset the duration to max.

 

[Cael]

Hey guys, does the dagger Edict (-3 Will for 1 minute when you hit the enemy) works at all? If it works, does it stack? If need be I will test it, but maybe you guys know it already

Only damage or drain stacks. Penalties and bonuses (of the same type) don't unless specifically said otherwise (e.g., dodge bonus).

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

It works. Doesn’t stack though. That would be so bizarrely OP that I’m not sure why you would even think it might.

 

[ArchAngel]

Spellcasting stats give bonus spells from 12 and above. There is no upper limit to this.

 

[Cryomancer]

I can't find an answer to a simple question: when playing spellcasters, does having Intelligence/Wisdom/Charisma (depending on the class) above 18 also affect the number of spells/casts per day?

Yes, affects but not only spell casts / day, but affects first low level spells... It also affects the DC of your spells. The DC of my death clutch is 30 due my massive high CHA + feats

 

[Lambach]

Holy hell, I was expecting Arcane casters to fall off late game and my PC Kineticist to start crushing, but I didn't think the tables would be flipped this hard. Arcane spells in Pathfinder are essentially "Josh Sawyer redesigns D&D 3.5". What the fuck is the point of Wail of The Banshee when it does an absolutely pathetic 180 damage, roughly half of a single Wild Cunt Scout's HP, and only if he doesn't save (and they will save relatively often) and you have to be careful not to nuke your own party and kill a squishy? Everyone and their grandmothers have either absurdly bloated saves or immunities that render 90% of the spellbook useless unless you cheese with Arcane Trickster. One cool thing about late-game Arcane casters is the ability to spam Enervation like crazy due to Metamagic and kill particularly tough fuckers through level drain alone (or lower their saves enough for the rest of the spellbook to be worth a shit). But even that's a moot point given the insane amounts of no-save damage Kineticists can pull at-will.

 

[Lambach]

I've never done a focused summoner build since the summons are fairly weak in the game, even when enhanced (+4 STR and CON from Augment Summoning is unnoticeable after level 5-6 and one extra lower-tier creature from Superior Summoning is unimpressive). IIRC, the most powerful summon for Evil characters is a solitary Thanadaemon, which will be annihilated by literally every creature you encounter at that point. The Azata or whatever the fuck they're called for non-Evil characters are no better. If you go Mystic Theurge, you won't even get access to highest level summons and even if you conjure an army of them in every encounter, they will rarely be more than disposable meat shields.

 

[deuxhero]

Holy hell, I was expecting Arcane casters to fall off late game and my PC Kineticist to start crushing, but I didn't think the tables would be flipped this hard. Arcane spells in Pathfinder are essentially "Josh Sawyer redesigns D&D 3.5". What the fuck is the point of Wail of The Banshee when it does an absolutely pathetic 180 damage, roughly half of a single Wild Cunt Scout's HP, and only if he doesn't save (and they will save relatively often) and you have to be careful not to nuke your own party and kill a squishy? Everyone and their grandmothers have either absurdly bloated saves or immunities that render 90% of the spellbook useless unless you cheese with Arcane Trickster. One cool thing about late-game Arcane casters is the ability to spam Enervation like crazy due to Metamagic and kill particularly tough fuckers through level drain alone (or lower their saves enough for the rest of the spellbook to be worth a shit). But even that's a moot point given the insane amounts of no-save damage Kineticists can pull at-will.

Wail of the Banshee is just a terrible spell in PF. Dominate Monster is still awesome if the target isn't immune.