Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Cryomancer]

Guys, i reached lv 18 recently as an sorcerer and picked summon monster IX, is Tsunamy and the Ice Prison mass worth to be my next spells?

Undead bloodline

a screenshot

 

[Cryomancer]

So, good Sir, was the previous poster correct? Are summons weak in the game?

He is assuming only one summon and no, Thanadaemon is not an weak summon. His CR is 13 https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/daemons/thanadaemon/
An adult white dragon is CR 10 https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/m...ns/dragon/chromatic-white/adult-white-dragon/
An Bogeyman, who can be obtain via weaker summoning spells is CR 10 http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/bogeyman/

So you can animate D3 monsters that even without feats, are strong as an adult white dragon. Anyone thinks that 3 adult dragons are weak even for end game? They can lose to an jabberwock, but an army of then can at least distract the jabberwock for many turns... Thanadaemon has 24 SR, 172 hit points, 3 attacks / round, wind hunts are common enemies at end pitax to late game and wild hunt archer is CR 13(same of Thanadaemon).

Summoning in this game isn't "throw one creature", if you bombard the enemy with Soul Eaters or Axiomites, they will have a lot of problem. An lv 20 sorcerer can animate 6 Thanadaemon or 18 "one tier below creatures"... This not mentioning distract capabilities. I remember when i bombarded the Wild Hunt Monarch on the DLC dungeon with undeads(create undead/animate undead) and it worked well. Even if they din't dealt much damage, this relative low level summons made then inside my deadly earth area of effect and my polar midnight area of effect. If they are killing skeletons, they aren't killing your party members.

As for Azata, i only used once. They cast Chain lightining and some auras if i remember correctly(not sure), can't give an honest opinion, but he doesn't look weak.

 

[Cryomancer]

Does having a Feyspeaker/Fey Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge build centered around summons sounds feasible? If I calculate it correctly, I would reach level 8 in both spell classes, while having a shitton of casts per day, due to doubling spell books + focusing only on Charisma as the main casting stat.

I never tried an build like it. My fear is that you will lose the best things from your bloodline and tier 9 spells are amazing...At least those who i saw. I suggest having one sorcerer of abyssal bloodline in your party and one cleric but i an not sure.

 

[Shadenuat]

Holy hell, I was expecting Arcane casters to fall off late game and my PC Kineticist to start crushing, but I didn't think the tables would be flipped this hard. Arcane spells in Pathfinder are essentially "Josh Sawyer redesigns D&D 3.5". What the fuck is the point of Wail of The Banshee when it does an absolutely pathetic 180 damage, roughly half of a single Wild Cunt Scout's HP, and only if he doesn't save (and they will save relatively often) and you have to be careful not to nuke your own party and kill a squishy? Everyone and their grandmothers have either absurdly bloated saves or immunities that render 90% of the spellbook useless unless you cheese with Arcane Trickster. One cool thing about late-game Arcane casters is the ability to spam Enervation like crazy due to Metamagic and kill particularly tough fuckers through level drain alone (or lower their saves enough for the rest of the spellbook to be worth a shit). But even that's a moot point given the insane amounts of no-save damage Kineticists can pull at-will.

If fey save against your fully kitted necromancer on Fortitude you badly suck at game and Sawyer is not to blame.

WH indeed have tons of hp but they are a particular monster from bestiary to exclusively destroy munchkins. Their whole design is about this.

Also max damage of Banshee is above 350 with all the items (cloak, rod) and feats (spell specialization). Not counting sneak. Stop being a shithead and demanding everything on silver platter and start learning your spellbook and metamagic.

 

[Lambach]

Also max damage of Banshee is above 350 with all the items (cloak, rod) and feats (spell specialization).

How does the rod increase damage? It doesn't use dice, so you can't Maximize it and even if you Empower it, that's 300 max (200 + 100). Which is still pretty laughable compared to the insta-kill effect found in 3.5. I guess you could use Weird instead, though I'd prefer not giving the enemy 2 chances to save.

 

[Lambach]

Weird is Phantasmal Killer with an AoE (like Wail of the Banshee is Finger of Death with an AoE).

 

[Cryomancer]

How does the rod increase damage? It doesn't use dice, so you can't Maximize it and even if you Empower it, that's 300 max (200 + 100). Which is still pretty laughable compared to the insta-kill effect found in 3.5. I guess you could use Weird instead, though I'd prefer not giving the enemy 2 chances to save.

The specialization increases the caster level, i believe that there are items who adds to your CL too(not sure), about OHK, most creatures with more than 350 hp would have strong fort save... Anyway, there are no OHK more but at least there are less enemies with death immunity. On NWN i found Flesh to Stone much better than Finger of Death.

edit : my finger of death dc is 30, an ancient silver dragon +21 fort would have 55% of chances of surviving and he has 337 hp http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/mo...dragon/metallic-silver/ancient-silver-dragon/

What about Phantasmal Killer?

Awful. Two saves... Will and Fort, only useful against mobs who have only good dex.

 

[Lambach]

edit : my finger of death dc is 30, an ancient silver dragon +21 fort would have 55% of chances of surviving and he has 337 hp http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/mo...dragon/metallic-silver/ancient-silver-dragon/

No, the Dragon would have a 100% chance to survive unless you're level 34, since Pathfinder's spells function like they were designed by Sawyer, so instead of a proper save-or-die effect, the motherfucking staple of D&D editions other than PF, the Finger does 10 damage per caster level.

 

[Shadenuat]

Guyz common Illusionist gnome solo Unfair one shotting Wild Hunt happened last year. u're not banned on youtube. Codex can't be that bad at D&D.

and you can increase damage of spells like Destruction and WoB with spell spec etc. to at least extra +40. A boss in Tenebrous Depths actually useses Empowered Destruction on you.

 

[deuxhero]

They actually only nerfed a handful of spells. Grease (doesn't flatfoot enemies), Glitterdust (new save every round) all the spells that cause instant death except Phantasmal Killer and Weird (which gave two saves) are the big ones. This isn't actually that big a nerf since there's plenty of alternatives that are almost or just as good. Shame the game doesn't include the pyrotechnics+bullseye lantern trick. That's almost as good as 3.5 Glitterdust but with a much bigger area.

I'm legit surprised Burst of Radiance wasn't in the game. That's got a smaller area than glitterdust but only allows one save (at the cost of only being 1d4 rounds of duration, but great with an extend rod) and some extra damage on evil creatures. Also it's on the Cleric list.

 

[Shadenuat]

Grease nerfed you mean it actually forces saves all the time while in PnP it only forces save if you move through it. Aka stunlock sawyer grease.

 

[Lambach]

Guyz common Illusionist gnome solo Unfair one shotting Wild Hunt happened last year. u're not banned on youtube. Codex can't be that bad at D&D.

"Min-maxing like a complete fucking autist should be the one and only valid way to use casters". Well, alrighty then.

and you can increase damage of spells like Destruction and WoB with spell spec etc. to at least extra +40. A boss in Tenebrous Depths actually useses Empowered Destruction on you.

I still don't get how you increase WotB to 350, though, care to enlighten me?

 

[Shadenuat]

- guyz these spells aren't weak here's guy killing everything with them on highest difficulty
- but he built his character to do this.

ok I am going back to crafting new dress for Rorona.

 

[Cryomancer]

No, the Dragon would have a 100% chance to survive unless you're level 34, since Pathfinder's spells function like they were designed by Sawyer, so instead of a proper save-or-die effect, the motherfucking staple of D&D editions other than PF, the Finger does 10 damage per caster level.

Assuming that i could buff my damage to 350. But lets be honest, 10 damage / CL is enough to kill most enemies in one hit. And 5e removed this OHK effects without any reason.

PS : Only for me is awful that Pathfinder Kingmaker has stone to flesh but no Flesh to Stone https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/flesh-to-stone/

 

[Lambach]

But lets be honest, 10 damage / CL is enough to kill most enemies in one hit. And 5e removed this OHK effects without any reason.

In PnP, maybe. On higher difficulties in Kingmaker, the kind of trash mobs that can be insta-killed by it are not the kind of enemies you want to burn a 7th level spell for. I could see the value of that spell if Kingmaker pitted you against more squishy casters whom you need to kill immediately before they start wreaking havoc your party, but those encounters are fairly rare and Death Clutch is a better spell for that anyway.

 

[deuxhero]

Grease nerfed you mean it actually forces saves all the time while in PnP it only forces save if you move through it. Aka stunlock sawyer grease.

Game implmentation seems to differ, but the pnp text

A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.

A grease spell covers a solid surface with a layer of slippery grease. Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. This save is repeated on your turn each round that the creature remains within the area. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Balance check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Balance skill for details).

You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can’t move to avoid a blow, and thus you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you aren’t considered flat-footed while balancing. If you take damage while balancing, you must make another Balance check against the same DC to remain standing.

 

[Shadenuat]

You suffer -4 against Melee when Prone that's good enough.

 

[deuxhero]

I never said PF grease was bad. Especially when prone is implemented as wonky as it is in this game.

 

[Cryomancer]

In PnP, maybe. On higher difficulties in Kingmaker, the kind of trash mobs that can be insta-killed by it are not the kind of enemies you want to burn a 7th level spell for. I could see the value of that spell if Kingmaker pitted you against more squishy casters whom you need to kill immediately before they start wreaking havoc your party, but those encounters are fairly rare and Death Clutch is a better spell for that anyway.

Finger of Death IMO still worth to take out an Wild Hunt Archer. Remember, you fight a lot of FEY and FEY in general tends to have poor fort save and good reflex. With 30 DC, even with the +4(not sure if unfair is +4 saves for enemies), you have an good chance of OHKilling him.( 12 + 4 + X = 30 ~ he needs to roll 14 to survive), even if your char wont kill him, will weaken him much more than if you had used an spell with reflex save of the same tier. His 22 reflex would make him extremely likely to save against any reflex save spell ( https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/wild-hunt/wild-hunt-archer/ )

 

[Yosharian]

I can't find an answer to a simple question: when playing spellcasters, does having Intelligence/Wisdom/Charisma (depending on the class) above 18 also affect the number of spells/casts per day?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores/

 

[deuxhero]

Playing Varnhold's Lot. In the final (?) area there's a pack of hellhounds and a nightmare. That's more evil outsiders than I have encountered in the entire main campaign (I found one nightmare in a random map and he died near instantly) in one room.

 

[Desiderius]

Playing Varnhold's Lot. In the final (?) area there's a pack of hellhounds and a nightmare. That's more evil outsiders than I have encountered in the entire main campaign (I found one nightmare in a random map and he died near instantly) in one room.

I noticed that too. Since then I think I saw some outsider wisps.

 

[Lambach]

A Greater Summer Golem just rolled 3 natural 20's for Reflex Save (against Icy Prison) in a fucking row. There's a (0.05^3)*100 = 0.0125% chance of that happening.

RNG working as intended.

EDIT: FOUR IN A FUCKING ROW.

Totally not bugged as fuck.

 

[Cryomancer]

Reached level 20

Still failed to kill Spawn of Rovagug.

Any way to increase my CL or reduce his SR?

 

[deuxhero]

You didn't pick "Spell Resistance: No" spells?