Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Shadenuat]

I really like this game, but this is the point where I've finally said, "OK maybe the encounter design can be a little cancerous at times."

Might be prudent to Delay that Poison until everyone forgets about it. See Invis is also a thing.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1630790506926264462/

not there.

these spiders appear the moment other groups of enemies fall below about 50% hp / or killed. or sometimes when you step on a trigger. these scripts (a reinforcements when enemy HP falls below a set threshold) are only easy to notice with TB mod though.

divination just doesn't give you same "gotcha bastard" satisfaction as in IE games. inconsistent design.

 

[Efe]

what do you call that build? fruit salad?

 

[Desiderius]

Haplo, I built a Fighter dual-wielding Falcatas and yeah those new Fighter feats they snuck into the last DLC are super sweet. Basically +5 to Will, +4 to Reflex and initiative. Effortless is +2/+2 if you're in for that instead. Replaces Weapon Training on second weapon group so doesn't require using regular feats. Was always so annoying that the extra weapon-trainings didn't really do anything. Really rounds out the class nicely.

View attachment 11482

This is naked and the stats are messed up because you can't respec with equipment on (I made it finesse/slashing grace which evidently looking at melee attack bonuses doesn't work anyway) but you can see the initiative boost and the solid base saves before equipment. She'll have 15-20 x4 autoconfirm at level 20.

That's pretty cool.
Still a Fighter is kinda a tough sell for me. He can do decent damage... and with the improvements maybe also be half-decent at tanking non-touch attacks... but is neither very interesting to play, nor really clearly leads at these things.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1630790987593451747/#c1630790987595882280

 

[Desiderius]

I really like this game, but this is the point where I've finally said, "OK maybe the encounter design can be a little cancerous at times."

Might be prudent to Delay that Poison until everyone forgets about it. See Invis is also a thing.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1630790506926264462/

not there.

these spiders appear the moment other groups of enemies fall below about 50% hp / or killed. or sometimes when you step on a trigger. these scripts (a reinforcements when enemy HP falls below a set threshold) are only easy to notice with TB mod though.

divination just doesn't give you same "gotcha bastard" satisfaction as in IE games. inconsistent design.

Are you sure about that?

Maybe only Wakandan's can see them.

 

[Daidre]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1630790987593451747/#c1630790987595882280

Who would even chose Glaive over Fauchard, Elven Curved Blade or Greataxe?

 

[Desiderius]

what do you call that build? fruit salad?

Which build? Dual-wielding Falcatas?

 

[Desiderius]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1630790987593451747/#c1630790987595882280

Who would even chose Glaive over Fauchard, Elven Curved Blade or Greataxe?

The newbie who opened the thread. Glaive is fine. Better reach than ECB or Axe, Martial Proficiency and higher multiplier than Fauchard. Fauchard goes on a non-martial toon if you're not tripping. You spend most of the game fighting with the appropriate Bane weapon anyway.

Keep sniping. Keep being wrong. As if those pics are subpar.

 

[Desiderius]

I really like this game, but this is the point where I've finally said, "OK maybe the encounter design can be a little cancerous at times."

Might be prudent to Delay that Poison until everyone forgets about it. See Invis is also a thing.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1630790506926264462/

not there.

these spiders appear the moment other groups of enemies fall below about 50% hp / or killed. or sometimes when you step on a trigger. these scripts (a reinforcements when enemy HP falls below a set threshold) are only easy to notice with TB mod though.

divination just doesn't give you same "gotcha bastard" satisfaction as in IE games. inconsistent design.

See Invis reveals the first group (aren't there some Redcaps there too?) which you pull to avoid the trap, then when the second group pops you're not so outnumbered. Talking first time thru. Subsequent trips of course you pull.

Original point stands of too many spiders/not enough variety.

 

[Daidre]

The newbie who opened the thread. Glaive is fine. Better reach than ECB or Axe, Martial Proficiency and higher multiplier than Fauchard. Fauchard goes on a non-martial toon if you're not tripping.

I use Glaive on low level when +2 Fire is one of the best 2-handers available, but have a difficult time imagining an end game build with it. All martials is better off with high crit range weapons, all non-martial supports like clerics and bards would need a feat anyway and specialized casters have no place close to melee where risk of eating AoO with failed concentration check is always real.

 

[Desiderius]

The newbie who opened the thread. Glaive is fine. Better reach than ECB or Axe, Martial Proficiency and higher multiplier than Fauchard. Fauchard goes on a non-martial toon if you're not tripping.

I use Glaive on low level when +2 Fire is one of the best 2-handers available, but have a difficult time imagining an end game build with it. All martials is better off with high crit range weapons, all non-martial supports like clerics and bards would need a feat anyway and specialized casters have no place close to melee where risk of eating AoO with failed concentration check is always real.

You're already hitting hard enough without crits. The crits that matter are from the rest of the team to give you your AoOs. As I said, you're using Bane weapons for most of the game anyway. The first feat on my MC Hospitaler was Exotic Prof Fauchard and she then proceeded to go 15 lvls without equipping one once.

This is fine for endgame:

https://imgur.com/a/k1C6dJf

Clerics need to be close to melee for Archon's Aura. Tristian doesn't even have Simple Proficiency so is good for him. Also good for Inquisitors. I like Bards on the front line with Image. But yeah other casters should hang further back with ranged attacks.

Martial Prof is valuable and wasted if you're duplicating with Exotic. If you have a good reason to sure (like Haplo's tripper), but shouldn't be default option. Even Fighter has plenty of good feats to take instead now.

 

[Shadenuat]

Are you sure about that?

and then they just use natural invis and shoot you anyway. also yes very hard to predict there might be some wisps in the area that has 20 of them. it's pointless interaction.

See Invis reveals the first group

See Invis shouldn't even affect natural sneak in any way. They probably patched it in because, again, it was very inconsistent across encounters.
and since you can't anticipate scripted groups, again, it's fairly useless info as far as meta information goes.

 

[Desiderius]

Are you sure about that?

and then they just use natural invis and shoot you anyway. also yes very hard to predict there might be some wisps in the area that has 20 of them. it's pointless interaction.

See Invis reveals the first group

See Invis shouldn't even affect natural sneak in any way. They probably patched it in because, again, it was very inconsistent across encounters.
and since you can't anticipate scripted groups, again, it's fairly useless info as far as meta information goes.

Pointless? Fighting that area with See Invis on vs not is night and day. Nat invis almost always fails when they attempt it. Just like Camouflage does when you're surrounded.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1630790506926264462/

It adds +20 to Perception check vs Invis, just as Invis adds +20 to Stealth. I'm almost to Womb on this playthrough. I'll test it there.

 

[Daidre]

You're already hitting hard enough without crits.

Both x1.5 STR bonus and Power Attack, iirc, multiplied on crit. I'd say that 2-hander oriented melee has a pretty good reason to focus on crit range.

 

[Shadenuat]

But what does it matter? They reveal themselves every attack and you hit them anyway.
But sure, ok, year later they fix invis.

In BG2 you could cast dispel invis/true seeing and kill off shadows in the first area after prologue. almost 20 yo game.

divination suckos. throw stinkie and start killin.

 

[Desiderius]

You're already hitting hard enough without crits.

Both x1.5 STR bonus and Power Attack, iirc, multiplied on crit. I'd say that 2-hander oriented melee has a pretty good reason to focus on crit fishing.

To kill mobs 3 times instead of two? Anyway it’s close. What feat are you replacing?

 

[Desiderius]

But what does it matter? They reveal themselves every attack and you hit them anyway.
But sure, ok, year later they fix invis.

In BG2 you could cast dispel invis/true seeing and kill off shadows in the first area after prologue. almost 20 yo game.

divination suckos. throw stinkie and start killin.

So you can see the spiders around that trap and pull them, avoiding the ambush in the pic that was the original question?

 

[Daidre]

From the build on Steam? I d never took Improved Initiative or Improved Cleaving Finish on fighter.

 

[Desiderius]

From the build on Steam? I d never took Improved Initiative or Improved Cleaving Finish on fighter.

I just think you’re already hitting hard enough that you want to max the number of attacks. You can see the results of ICF in that Dreadful Carnage pic. He slaughtered that whole group in one round.

As for Initiative, Cleave is a Standard Action, so you can move and Cleave in the same round (you can’t with a full attack). With max initiative (using the new Trained Initiative) you can wade in and destroy everything before they can even do anything.

Both of the above paragraphs work more consistently with a wider crit range of course, so I could see Fauchard being better ultimately. Several trade offs involved.

Haplo says that Serpent Prince is x3, so that may be worth it. Could also just be overkill.

 

[Daidre]

Just checked the game.

Do you really think that +4 Initiative will help you to outroll these guys? Or they would die from one hit with their 300 hp on archers, not mentioning the golems?

 

[Desiderius]

Just checked the game.

Do you really think that +4 Initiative will help you to outroll these guys? Or they would die from one hit with their 300 hp on archers, not mentioning the golems?

You mean +19 initiative? When I get there I’ll post screenshots blowing them out too and you clowns can keep congratulating yourselves in your cluelessness.

I already posted a shot of the sniper I built on the Captive. She had to clear rooms full of Wild Hunt to get there.

You’re fine players. You’re missing most of what I’m doing. Get off your high horses.

 

[Shadenuat]

You can out-ini WH due to stackable items. At least 30 average is not out of main char reach.
That's just high rolls, you can get more than +20.

it's not even that high compared to pnp where scout has +13 and should get +4 insight for WH ability for +17 total.

should have given them take 20 on Unfair or something.

 

[Daidre]

You’re missing most of what I’m doing.

Mostly the same thing Ineffect was doing on every forum within his reach. Advertising his flawed builds.

That's just high rolls, you can get more than +20.

Only neck for +4 comes to mind, but it is a waste of the slot. I looked in my endgame inventory and there nothing with ini bonus - even ring of Circumstances does not have it. And it is not high roll - they have +17 Scouts, + 21 Archers and +23 Monarch. On hard. Unfair is +2 (or +4?). Wasting all this feats for <50% chance to outroll them is suboptimal no matter how to sell it.

 

[Shadenuat]

Wind whatever necklace yeah, but it's not the only item afaik.

Honestly Suramgain spell should have worked, but I don't think it adds up with its stat check bonus.

even ring of Circumstances does not have it.

it gives you circumstantial +dex.

And WH is endgame enemy, not all the game. I outrolled last levels of rog dungon and Shrimp boss.

 

[Desiderius]

You’re missing most of what I’m doing.

Mostly the same thing Ineffect was doing on every forum within his reach. Advertising his flawed builds.

That's just high rolls, you can get more than +20.

Only neck for +4 comes to mind, but it is a waste of the slot. I looked in my endgame inventory and there nothing with ini bonus - even ring of Circumstances does not have it. And it is not high roll - they have +17 Scouts, + 21 Archers and +23 Monarch. On hard. Unfair is +2 (or +4?). Wasting all this feats for <50% chance to outroll them is suboptimal no matter how to sell it.

Jesus, you really know how to hurt a guy. I’m the polar opposite of InEffect. Guy doesn’t even know how to use a Bard. He has 30-odd builds. I have, what, five now? All built in response to a question someone asked. I have two or three others I didn’t post because they actually were flawed rather than just hurting your touchy feelings.

You get the new Fighter feat (it’s free since it replaces a redundant Weapon Training slot) which makes it worthwhile to try to stack it for the first time. You’re dominant most of the game and competitive late.

Most important thing is that with Armed Bravery and Fighter’s Tactics you’ve got 9 more Will.

 

[Delterius]

Am I missing something? Why do people go Sorcerer with Arcane Trickster? That puts you another level behind in sneak attack acquisition and spell levels. Plus, can't even use a CHA caster as skillmonkey.