Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Jimmious]

Do you guys use heavy armor on Harrim? I'm generally considering him as a "secondary tank/pre-battle buffer" so he doesn't really cast a lot during combat - which means spell cast failure is not such a big deal. I'm still not sure though

 

[Daidre]

Spell cast failure does not affect Cleric and all divine casters. He has a Heavy Armor feat and low DEX, wearing it is the most sensible thing to do.

 

[Delterius]

Do you guys use heavy armor on Harrim? I'm generally considering him as a "secondary tank/pre-battle buffer" so he doesn't really cast a lot during combat - which means spell cast failure is not such a big deal. I'm still not sure though

Sure thing, why not give him some teamwork feats to pair up with Valerie while you're at it?

 

[Jimmious]

Spell cast failure does not affect Cleric and all divine casters. He has a Heavy Armor feat and low DEX, wearing it is the most sensible thing to do.

Wtf I didn't know that. Cool thanks

*They should really change that into ARCANE Spell Failure

 

[Haplo]

Damn, I never used Cacophonous Call before with a bard but this spell is lit. It it just one Will save and if they fail they spend the rest of the combat standing there and waiting to be killed. Better then Hold Person and many others of similar levels.

Pretty nice, but bards tend to have crappy DCs. Single target. And it's mind-affecting, so doesn't work on certain enemies.
IMO as a "boss killer" it soon gets outclassed by VineTrap, Icy Prison and Chains of Light (obviously slightly higher level). I think not many enemies have poor Will but strong Reflex... animals? Rogue types, perhaps, but there aren't many.
For mobs there's Grease, the Pitts, Glitterdust, Phantasmal Web.
Mass Cacophonous Call on the other hand is pretty great...

 

[Desiderius]

Do you guys use heavy armor on Harrim? I'm generally considering him as a "secondary tank/pre-battle buffer" so he doesn't really cast a lot during combat - which means spell cast failure is not such a big deal. I'm still not sure though

That +4 AC vs Giants is pretty big. Let him loose wreaking havoc with his Touch of Chaos.

 

[Shadenuat]

Pretty nice, but bards tend to have crappy DCs

And loads of junk that increases said dc like armor of lafs, gloves, cloak, maya charm, etc.

I think not many enemies have poor Will but strong Reflex

half of spiders in the game who are marked as Magical Beast instead of Vermin.

 

[Desiderius]

Damn, I never used Cacophonous Call before with a bard but this spell is lit. It it just one Will save and if they fail they spend the rest of the combat standing there and waiting to be killed. Better then Hold Person and many others of similar levels.

Pretty nice, but bards tend to have crappy DCs. Single target. And it's mind-affecting, so doesn't work on certain enemies.
IMO as a "boss killer" it soon gets outclassed by VineTrap, Icy Prison and Chains of Light (obviously slightly higher level). I think not many enemies have poor Will but strong Reflex... animals? Rogue types, perhaps, but there aren't many.
For mobs there's Grease, the Pitts, Glitterdust, Phantasmal Web.
Mass Cacophonous Call on the other hand is pretty great...

Don’t let the man get you down, Arch. You get Call at four, Vinetrap at Nine at the earliest. Plenty of big dummies with weak will throughout the game but certainly between those two levels. Not a sure thing to land but it’s save or die so worth shooting your shot.

I like to give non-tanks something productive to do first round of combat so they don’t rush in and get clobbered. For a lot of fights in the first three chapters Call is on the top of that list. Works on both Trolls and Magical Beasts.

 

[Desiderius]

Pretty nice, but bards tend to have crappy DCs

And loads of junk that increases said dc like armor of lafs, gloves, cloak, maya charm, etc.

I think not many enemies have poor Will but strong Reflex

half of spiders in the game who are marked as Magical Beast instead of Vermin.

Was pretty funny first time I accidentally Fascinated a room full of the buggers.

 

[Desiderius]

Do you guys use heavy armor on Harrim? I'm generally considering him as a "secondary tank/pre-battle buffer" so he doesn't really cast a lot during combat - which means spell cast failure is not such a big deal. I'm still not sure though

Sure thing, why not give him some teamwork feats to pair up with Valerie while you're at it?

Yup. He can use them to tank Soul Eaters in a pinch:

 

[Desiderius]

The party I have chosen to roll with feels a bit weird. PC Vivisectionist, Valerie, Amiri, Tristan, Linzi, Octavia. I think I have covered tanking (Valerie and Vivisectionist), but I have 3 guys who can't get too close to battle (Tristan, Linzi, Octavia). I am not too happy about that.

Tristan has awesome healing so he is a keeper. Octavia is the only wizard I can have (mercs aside), so I guess I am keeping her too. So that only leaves Linzi to be dropped (for Ragnorak or some of the later guys), but Linzi looks like a character who is meant by the developers to be in the party. What do you guys think? Is the party I mentioned decent or does it have too many weaklings?

Looks fine. You’ve figured out the importance of Bard, and yeah she does better at the front if you’re careful. I like to have Tristian and Octavia fight with weapons too (Tristian enlarged with reach, Octavia with Jav) but that doesn’t seem to have caught on yet. Lot of great weapons in the game - shame not to use them.

There are also different companions who are better suited for different chapters so don’t feel like you have to lock yourself in to one lineup.

AFAIK if you have at least two characters who have decent AC, the enemies do switch from one tank but then they meet your other tank, and then next time the AI tells them to switch targets again they happily switch back to your first tank, then back to your other tank, and so on, ad infinitum.

I didn't test this thoroughly but I read somewhere that that is how the AI works sometimes

So just one tank is garbage but if you have at least 2 you should be ok.. maybe?

Some of the tough fights can only be tanked by a Haplo special anyway (much easier to distract/disable) so mise well just have a couple decently tough buggers up front (Okbo and Val/Harrim work for me) with everyone else doing enough damage to keep fights short.

 

[ArchAngel]

Damn, I never used Cacophonous Call before with a bard but this spell is lit. It it just one Will save and if they fail they spend the rest of the combat standing there and waiting to be killed. Better then Hold Person and many others of similar levels.

Pretty nice, but bards tend to have crappy DCs. Single target. And it's mind-affecting, so doesn't work on certain enemies.
IMO as a "boss killer" it soon gets outclassed by VineTrap, Icy Prison and Chains of Light (obviously slightly higher level). I think not many enemies have poor Will but strong Reflex... animals? Rogue types, perhaps, but there aren't many.
For mobs there's Grease, the Pitts, Glitterdust, Phantasmal Web.
Mass Cacophonous Call on the other hand is pretty great...

Not my Bard since Charisma is my only focus as a Thundercaller Bard. And I used it vs all the big brutes in Act 1: the Troll, the Leopard and any dangerous Boggard and in Wererat cave. Now I am going vs act boss and I expect to get rid of him as well with it. I plan to get Heighten Spell later and use it later as well, only problem is that bards only get to up to lvl 6 spells so you lose on 3 DC for end game.

 

[Desiderius]

You have Mass version by then, no need to get carried away.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Any advice (or a link) for a unfair run with game companions full party?

 

[Desiderius]

So, I tried to get back in recently. Slayer seems quite good, with the ability to get sneak dice and ranger-lite stuff. But the ranger, unfortunately, still is the superior choice due to flat bonuses, spells and animal companions. After level 14, I am surprised to find that the Arcane trickster becomes absolutely broken, It's too late in the game, yes, but AT still does decent to great most of the game. At the moment the best defence in the game is just MIrror images. The funnest gameplay is, unsurprisingly, the magus. Paladin is the solid most choice for the MC due to the mark of Justice. Rogues are still the killing machines that they are due to badly implemented sneak attacks. But you need to supplement will-saves. So a Dex-Wiz Rogue/Monk1 is a good choice. I am not talking about druids and alchs because they are utterly broken in the game,

Do you guys use heavy armor on Harrim? I'm generally considering him as a "secondary tank/pre-battle buffer" so he doesn't really cast a lot during combat - which means spell cast failure is not such a big deal. I'm still not sure though

Sure thing, why not give him some teamwork feats to pair up with Valerie while you're at it?

Yup. He can use them to tank Soul Eaters in a pinch:

View attachment 11501

Eh. just use summons. Harrim is best geared as Conjuration specialist with superior summons early. Late game, give him necromancy specs.

Uh, where do you think those wolves came from?

 

[Desiderius]

Any advice (or a link) for a unfair run with game companions full party?

I’m doing well with a Bard, Freebooter, Jub and his companion Okbo.

 

[Haplo]

Damn, I never used Cacophonous Call before with a bard but this spell is lit. It it just one Will save and if they fail they spend the rest of the combat standing there and waiting to be killed. Better then Hold Person and many others of similar levels.

Pretty nice, but bards tend to have crappy DCs. Single target. And it's mind-affecting, so doesn't work on certain enemies.
IMO as a "boss killer" it soon gets outclassed by VineTrap, Icy Prison and Chains of Light (obviously slightly higher level). I think not many enemies have poor Will but strong Reflex... animals? Rogue types, perhaps, but there aren't many.
For mobs there's Grease, the Pitts, Glitterdust, Phantasmal Web.
Mass Cacophonous Call on the other hand is pretty great...

Don’t let the man get you down, Arch. You get Call at four, Vinetrap at Nine at the earliest.

At 4 if its your first pick. I tend to go with other spells. And when I only have 1-3 slots of that level, I sure as hell ain't burning them on a single target spell that might very well fail to boot.
I will probably get more mileage out of Blur on my melees. Mirror Image would do wonders for survavibility.

 

[Desiderius]

Damn, I never used Cacophonous Call before with a bard but this spell is lit. It it just one Will save and if they fail they spend the rest of the combat standing there and waiting to be killed. Better then Hold Person and many others of similar levels.

Pretty nice, but bards tend to have crappy DCs. Single target. And it's mind-affecting, so doesn't work on certain enemies.
IMO as a "boss killer" it soon gets outclassed by VineTrap, Icy Prison and Chains of Light (obviously slightly higher level). I think not many enemies have poor Will but strong Reflex... animals? Rogue types, perhaps, but there aren't many.
For mobs there's Grease, the Pitts, Glitterdust, Phantasmal Web.
Mass Cacophonous Call on the other hand is pretty great...

Don’t let the man get you down, Arch. You get Call at four, Vinetrap at Nine at the earliest.

At 4 if its your first pick. I tend to go with other spells. And when I only have 1-3 slots of that level, I sure as hell ain't burning them on a single target spell that might very well fail to boot.
I will probably get more mileage out of Blur on my melees. Mirror Image would do wonders for survavibility.

You get two. Mine are Image and Call. Call’s gotten me three early Strength belts and counting. Touch of Chaos turns Bard into Gnome Illusionist.



Call beats Castigate but even Castigate does work in Ch. 1.

If I wanted to do Ch 1 on unfair again it would be a tougher choice, but unfair ch. 1 is incongruent with the rest of the game. On Hard and below Call is a fine option as long as you always have a backup plan.

 

[ArchAngel]

You have Mass version by then, no need to get carried away.

Mass version means I need to take it over some other spell. And in late game taking enchantment spells is less useful with all the fey immune and having high will save.

 

[Desiderius]

You have Mass version by then, no need to get carried away.

Mass version means I need to take it over some other spell. And in late game taking enchantment spells is less useful with all the fey immune and having high will save.

Good point. By that time I’m on Fortitude. Slow is a close enough approx and hits more things. Usually not big on meta feats but Heighten seems so flexible for spontaneous casters. Guess I’ll have to try it.

 

[razvedchiki]

Found out that grenadiers can offtank when out of bombs,created a tiefling merc grenadier and he had respectable ac.

 

[Desiderius]

Has everyone seen this?

https://youtu.be/xtmD8VfgpCQ

(Cohh Carnage on P:K)

 

[Delterius]

Has everyone seen this?

https://youtu.be/xtmD8VfgpCQ

(Cohh Carnage on P:K)

'the best crpg ever made'

Gregz

 

[Desiderius]

Found out that grenadiers can offtank when out of bombs,created a tiefling merc grenadier and he had respectable ac.

If you’re doing that might as well go all in and start blowing those bombs out your nose.

I hear that’s pretty powerful.

 

[Cryomancer]

For those who completed the game with turn based mod. How long took to complete the game?