Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Lacrymas]

First impressions - it's good that you don't begin in a lowly village, hearing that Jamandi Aldori is looking for heroes and having to "prove your worth" to the village before they'll let you go or some garbage like that, it cuts out the middleman and goes straight to the point. I like that you get to either keep Jaethal or Linzi depending on your answer after the attack. Jaethal is waifu. The bandit attack on Oleg's Post was kinda disappointing, especially if you pass all the skill checks before that. I would've made maybe 1 or 2 side quests to get before you wait for the attack, with another map to explore and gather things to help with the defense. It feels anticlimatic the way it is now, but perhaps it's that way due to the PnP module itself. All the assassins and bandits felt undertuned, they were very easily dispatched and die in like 2 hits or less.

The Kineticist tiefling stands out as a DLC character immediately because I didn't notice anyone replying to her and she has waaay more lines than any of the other characters. She's not seamlessly integrated and perhaps that DLC is overpriced in general even on discount.

Amiri is a bit tryhard-y. Tartuccio couldn't swindle an old lady, yet Jamandi Aldori falls for his backstab attempt immediately if you don't pass skill checks, so that has more to do with her own inability to read people than our lack of skills. It does set up what to expect though, over-the-top obvious characters who are more like child-friendly remakes of fairy tales than anything else, which is absolutely fine, it has no pretensions for more and I respect that. I do like that you yourself as a player can read Tartuccio and not equip his ring (which is obviously a trap), don't steal from the box and help out the guards. Although, those guards came out of the left field, I don't know what guards they were talking about. Maybe I missed something as I'm playing in German, but when I went through the flames, I passed the skill check with Valerie and she managed to save the guard, so I don't understand what other guards I "left to die" they are talking about.

I hope the maps aren't generally as small as Oleg's. The loading times are fine.

 

[Desiderius]

First impressions - it's good that you don't begin in a lowly village, hearing that Jamandi Aldori is looking for heroes and having to "prove your worth" to the village before they'll let you go or some garbage like that, it cuts out the middleman and goes straight to the point. I like that you get to either keep Jaethal or Linzi depending on your answer after the attack. Jaethal is waifu. The bandit attack on Oleg's Post was kinda disappointing, especially if you pass all the skill checks before that. I would've made maybe 1 or 2 side quests to get before you wait for the attack, with another map to explore and gather things to help with the defense. It feels anticlimatic the way it is now, but perhaps it's that way due to the PnP module itself. All the assassins and bandits felt undertuned, they were very easily dispatched and die in like 2 hits or less.

The Kineticist tiefling stands out as a DLC character immediately because I didn't notice anyone replying to her and she has waaay more lines than any of the other characters. She's not seamlessly integrated and perhaps that DLC is overpriced in general even on discount.

Amiri is a bit tryhard-y. Tartuccio couldn't swindle an old lady, yet Jamandi Aldori falls for his backstab attempt immediately if you don't pass skill checks, so that has more to do with her own inability to read people than our lack of skills. It does set up what to expect though, over-the-top obvious characters who are more like child-friendly remakes of fairy tales than anything else, which is absolutely fine, it has no pretensions for more and I respect that. I do like that you yourself as a player can read Tartuccio and not equip his ring (which is obviously a trap), don't steal from the box and help out the guards. Although, those guards came out of the left field, I don't know what guards they were talking about. Maybe I missed something as I'm playing in German, but when I went through the flames, I passed the skill check with Valerie and she managed to save the guard, so I don't understand what other guards I "left to die" they are talking about.

I hope the maps aren't generally as small as Oleg's. The loading times are fine.

The over-the-top characters are initially send-ups of woke/western fads (Mary Sue, Magic Negro, et al). Their character arcs are compelling and savvy.

Shrews getting simultaneously tamed and vindicated is an interesting and timely tightrope to walk.

 

[Delterius]

so that has more to do with her own inability to read people than our lack of skills.

don't worry she'll soon congratulate herself for her intuition on people

 

[Trashos]

I seem to remember that people were complaining about the fight at Oleg's and it was eventually made easier. Someone closer to the early stages of development can correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah, the writing/narrative looks serviceable to support all the fighting, but Tartuccio is no Irenicus.

The game also badly needs a weapon switching key. It is fun though, and it is going to be even more fun when I start designing my own builds for later playthroughs.

 

[Desiderius]

You get

You can beat Ronery barrow lich at level 9. But lose his gear. You can reliably best him half the time at level 11.

Best spell on linzi at level gain early is hands down grease.

You get Grease wand at Manticore area. She has nothing else that targets Reflex. Leave Grease to Wiz.

that is a terrible idea, Grease wand has DC 11.

Eh, you're probably right. I've activated that wand like three times after being excited about finding it. My Linzi does have Grease and it's solid.

 

[Desiderius]

Tartuccio is no Irenicus

Vacuously true. Nor were Xzar and Montaron.

 

[Desiderius]

eh, you might as well use it early on

Jesus, Kit, calm down. Grease is a good fine spell. Was just regretting it because my MC is ranged.

Anyway, the preferred nomenclature is "cognitively laid back."

 

[Lacrymas]

I seem to remember that people were complaining about the fight at Oleg's and it was eventually made easier.

If it was indeed difficult, they didn't only make it easier, they bulldozed it entirely and left cardboard cutouts in the debris. This is on Challenging.

 

[Desiderius]

eh, you might as well use it early on

Jesus, Kit, calm down. Grease is a good fine spell. Was just regretting it because my MC is ranged.

Anyway, the preferred nomenclature is "cognitively laid back."

Alright, dipshit, have it your way.

 

[Daidre]

If it was indeed difficult, they didn't only make it easier, they bulldozed it entirely and left cardboard cutouts in the debris. This is on Challenging.

It was hardest fight in the game on Unfair. It is also unavoidable and happens before you can properly customize your party or hire mercenaries. I guess nerfing it was simpler than trying to change whole Oleg's sequence.

Personally, after reloading it for 3 hours, I do not miss it. There are other interesting fights in ch1 when you have proper control over your party's composition and equipment.

 

[Trashos]

Indeed, Ch1 (which I am close to finishing, I am at Stag Lord's now) has plenty of interesting fights.

Tartuccio is no Irenicus

Vacuously true. Nor were Xzar and Montaron.

My point is that BG2 had this legendary antagonist that hooked many players to the plot. I do not see something similar this far in PKM, just a serviceable narrative. This is not a major criticism btw, awesome characters like Irenicus are very rare. I am merely comparing PKM to the golden standard of RTwP games, I think it is only natural.

 

[Trashos]

I have talked in length in the past why I think BG2 has an excellent plot that reminds me of Greek Tragedies, with themes of birthright, hybris etc. But this is not the time to repeat myself, let me first see what PKM has to offer.

Until this point, let's just say that I agree with Lacrymas that charming antagonists like Irenicus are more interesting than "hi, I am evil" antagonists like Tartuccio. That's all.

 

[Daidre]

charming antagonists like Irenicus are more interesting

Charming Irenicus.

I am speechless.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Charming Irenicus.

I am speechless.

He ain't that charming. Not charming at all, come to think of it.

 

[Delterius]

Ackshually, BG2 is hardly mature storytelling. In that department, both games are mediocre at best. Finding BG2 a pinnacle of *anything* is pure nostalgia goggles.

nobody said anything about it being mature

this is sword and sorcery bruv

Until this point, let's just say that I agree with Lacrymas that charming antagonists like Irenicus are more interesting than "hi, I am evil" antagonists like Tartuccio. That's all.

the problem with tartuccio is that unless you're a demonspawn with personality issues its p crazy that good knight lady thought the mafia city gnome of dark magic could maybe be on her side after all

 

[Sergiu64]

the problem with tartuccio is that unless you're a demonspawn with personality issues its p crazy that good knight lady thought the mafia city gnome of dark magic could maybe be on her side after all

I mean... he makes some accusations - if your character is poor at deflecting those accusations I could see how a woman that was just attacked in her own castle would be suspicious of the both of you.

I found the whole - and now I'll trust both of you to try to win a neighborhood barony bit worse: why wouldn't she be gunning for it herself rather than give it away to some random adventurer?

 

[Daidre]

I found the whole - and now I'll trust both of you to try to win a neighborhood barony bit worse: why wouldn't she be gunning for it herself rather than give it away to some random adventurer?

Because this piece of land has a loong history and quite a reputation in all nearby kingdoms? Adventurers tend to miss out such spoilerish details.

 

[skaraher]

I found the whole - and now I'll trust both of you to try to win a neighborhood barony bit worse: why wouldn't she be gunning for it herself rather than give it away to some random adventurer?

Her scheme is explained in the transition between Act 1 and 2 and you can choose to honor it or betray her.

 

[Lacrymas]

I mean... he makes some accusations - if your character is poor at deflecting those accusations I could see how a woman that was just attacked in her own castle would be suspicious of the both of you.

The problem is that it's clear as day those accusations are made in bad faith and with the intent to sully your name and take the barony for himself. Even Jaethal, Valerie and Amiri speak in your defense if you don't pass some of the checks. He's just bad at manipulation (including his attempt to peddle that ring, given his prior statements and acts) and it's obvious he's a slimy little weasel, yet Jamandi falls for it.

 

[Delterius]

Sure, he's a Sorcerer with high Charisma so I'd expect NPCs to act stupid around him. The only adjustment I'd ask for is that the guy at least hides his italian mobster accent, capici.

 

[Sergiu64]

Because this piece of land has a loong history and quite a reputation in all nearby kingdoms? Adventurers tend to miss out such spoilerish details.

Meh. The Storyteller's bit on her shows she went for the land earlier - but backed out because the Paladin she was accompanying died and he was the one who could inherit it or some such nonsense. I just chalked it all to background noise that games always try to explain such things with and continued on with the real point of this game: powerbuild porn.

 

[Delterius]

Because this piece of land has a loong history and quite a reputation in all nearby kingdoms? Adventurers tend to miss out such spoilerish details.

Meh. The Storyteller's bit on her shows she went for the land earlier - but backed out because the Paladin she was accompanying died and he was the one who could inherit it or some such nonsense. I just chalked it all to background noise that games always try to explain such things with and continued on with the real point of this game: powerbuild porn.

Well, yeah. Basically she can go CK2 style and sponsor a claim, or the claim of someone outside of brevic politics. If she does it herself then the war with the surtovas is pushed forward on the time table.

 

[santino27]

I seem to remember that people were complaining about the fight at Oleg's and it was eventually made easier.

If it was indeed difficult, they didn't only make it easier, they bulldozed it entirely and left cardboard cutouts in the debris. This is on Challenging.

Yes, it used to be far more difficult*. That's true of a lot of encounters in the early game, sadly.

* (And god forbid the weather changed when waiting for bandits... with rain, they moved too slowly and therefore mostly avoided the damage when Oleg lit the oil on fire, which really made for a wild scramble)

 

[Delterius]

* (And god forbid the weather changed when waiting for bandits... with rain, they moved too slowly and therefore mostly avoided the damage when Oleg lit the oil on fire, which really made for a wild scramble)

oh this can still happen

 

[Desiderius]

Sure, he's a Sorcerer with high Charisma so I'd expect NPCs to act stupid around him. The only adjustment I'd ask for is that the guy at least hides his italian mobster accent, capici.

Nah, non-Westerners enjoy their privilege to have fun with national stereotypes which we've foolishly denied ourselves.