Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[deuxhero]

Only on the last chapter, but Steam says 190. That does however counts Varnhold's Lot, tenish levels into the depths in standalone and, most importantly, all the loading.

 

[Shadenuat]

1000hours

 

[Haplo]

You have Mass version by then, no need to get carried away.

Mass version means I need to take it over some other spell. And in late game taking enchantment spells is less useful with all the fey immune and having high will save.

I have much more trouble choosing low level Bard spells, then the high level ones. It's not like it has lots of strong competition.

 

[Desiderius]

You have Mass version by then, no need to get carried away.

Mass version means I need to take it over some other spell. And in late game taking enchantment spells is less useful with all the fey immune and having high will save.

I have much more trouble choosing low level Bard spells, then the high level ones. It's not like it has lots of strong competition.

Akshually.

Maybe if you'd let Linzi cast some offensive spells you wouldn't have to saddle her with that awful Vivi splash. I'm probably wrong about melee Vivi, but I'm 100% confident about ranged.

Lvl 1:

Ear-piercing Scream = counterspell, caster has to pass two saves, most casters have weak Fort
Laughter = you know about that, restricted targets, not save or die, but fine
Retreat = min/lvl solution to her short legs
Remove Fear = long-lasting Saves buff
Touch of Gracelessness = Slow (easy to miss that part) + DEX damage, half DEX damage even on save
Confusion cure thingie

Lvl 2:

Sonic Burst is the Thundercaller ability without having to give up Dirge. Dirge of course is -2 to saves also. Shit adds up.

Wait, you said high level.

Lvl 5

Cloak of Dreams - rnd/lvl so probably isn't worth it, but sure looks like a fun Coup de Grace generator
Dispel Magic (Greater) - you get a shot at every buff each cast, if you're pure Bard (and you should be) you have as good a shot as a pure caster. I've used this and liked it.
Ki Shout - better Ear-piercing Scream, reliable spell stopper
Mind Fog - sets up everything else. Those that fail their save get to eat low level save or dies
Resonating Word - my go to for casting bosses, nightmare to cast through, Ghosts are weak to Sonic and Stun
Song of Discord - medium range Improved Confusion, haven't found room but we all know what a pain Nixie Tricksters are so should be pretty effective

Lvl 6:

Yeah, this level is weird. Pretty confident now that Brilliant Inspiration is working and Shout, Greater is a house so whatever. Can't go wrong with a summon for the third pick.

I've gotten multiple +3 DC Evocation rods on each of my last two playthroughs, so should be able to beat some saves with her Sonic arsenal vs Fort, as one would expect for a Bard.

 

[ArchAngel]

How do you Counterspell, some mod? Or do you mean just disable the enemy caster so he cannot cast.

Sonic Burst is not even close to Thundercaller. You only get a few Sonic Bursts (Thundercaller's has as many as rounds of Inspire), their DC is always at lvl of lvl 2 spell (Thundercaller's goes up every 2 levels) and damage is always stuck at 1d8 (Thundercaller's goes up by +2d8 every few levels).

 

[Haplo]

Cloak of Dreams was pretty terrible when I've tried it. Easy to miss that its party unfriendly, so I ended up putting most of my party to sleep - rather then the enemies.

Greater Dispel - sure, theoretically important. In practice, few enemies have buffs worth the bother. Easier & faster to kill them. YMMV

Mind Fog - again, good in theory. In practice casting a minimum of 2 spells, waiting for enemies to fail their save... Most enemies should be dead by then. And relying on mind-affecting effects where lots of enemies are immune... IMO better to just concentrate on hitting the proper weak save... or kill outright. Plus your wizard probably already had that ages ago for its niche application.

 

[Desiderius]

How do you Counterspell, some mod? Or do you mean just disable the enemy caster so he cannot cast.

Sonic Burst is not even close to Thundercaller. You only get a few Sonic Bursts (Thundercaller's has as many as rounds of Inspire), their DC is always at lvl of lvl 2 spell (Thundercaller's goes up every 2 levels) and damage is always stuck at 1d8 (Thundercaller's goes up by +2d8 every few levels).

The stun is the important part. And I've had casters miss their concentration check on the piddly damage too.



You can see in the combat log Linzi interrupting the Insane Wizard summoning his Azata Army, which is important since I can't close because of that trap. Tristian took advantage of the stun to pelt the Wizard to death from range with his Sling Staff. See Invis was important again here to spot the Wizard before he got the summon off.

 

[Desiderius]

Cloak of Dreams was pretty terrible when I've tried it. Easy to miss that its party unfriendly, so I ended up putting most of my party to sleep - rather then the enemies.

Greater Dispel - sure, theoretically important. In practice, few enemies have buffs worth the bother. Easier & faster to kill them. YMMV

Mind Fog - again, good in theory. In practice casting a minimum of 2 spells, waiting for enemies to fail their save... Most enemies should be dead by then. And relying on mind-affecting effects where lots of enemies are immune... IMO better to just concentrate on hitting the proper weak save... or kill outright. Plus your wizard probably already had that ages ago for its niche application.

Only use Mind Fog against the weak-willed. One way among many to get around lower Bard DCs. Pointless to use it against high Will targets. My wizard is for attacking Reflex/Fort/HP, not Will.

As for Dispel, Val got Seamantle off of Ithullialk and Barkskin and Shield off of Defaced Sister I think. Niche spell but good when its needed. Agreed would be better game were it needed more often, but nice to have in reserve.

Anyway, don't sleep on the Sonic spells, especially with the damage you deal out. They give you the window you need to clean up.

 

[anvi]

Are there any fun bosses in later chapters? I got to about chapter 3 or 4 and got bored of all the trash fights.

 

[Haplo]

Well, the boss in the Lonely Barrow is quite entertaining if you challenge him early (like level 13 or so). Generally need to cheese with Dimension Door trough the barrier to reach him so early.

The ghost mage architect in Pitax Palace basement is fun also.

And the Lantern King is not half bad either.

 

[ArchAngel]

How do you Counterspell, some mod? Or do you mean just disable the enemy caster so he cannot cast.

Sonic Burst is not even close to Thundercaller. You only get a few Sonic Bursts (Thundercaller's has as many as rounds of Inspire), their DC is always at lvl of lvl 2 spell (Thundercaller's goes up every 2 levels) and damage is always stuck at 1d8 (Thundercaller's goes up by +2d8 every few levels).

The stun is the important part. And I've had casters miss their concentration check on the piddly damage too.

View attachment 11509

You can see in the combat log Linzi interrupting the Insane Wizard summoning his Azata Army, which is important since I can't close because of that trap. Tristian took advantage of the stun to pelt the Wizard to death from range with his Sling Staff. See Invis was important again here to spot the Wizard before he got the summon off.

Are you playing on TB or real time? Because I don't think you can break their concentration with damage on TB mod as they don't start casting until their turn.

 

[razvedchiki]

If you’re doing that might as well go all in and start blowing those bombs out your nose.

I hear that’s pretty powerful.

i decided to have all my party members to be off tanks in case my melee brudas get owned/disabled,and since enemy casters dont use dispell like never mirror image/blur/displacement will allow them to do so (ok against enraged owlbears maybe not).

so with that in mind i would like some advice how to build linzi/tristian to be melee offtanks IN A LOREFRIENDLY MANNER OK?so no vivis splashes etc.
like when you are done healing tristian grabs his scimitar and starts beheading the enemies of dem faith(clerics with edgy weapons what a fucking heresy).

 

[Fedora Master]

Well, the boss in the Lonely Barrow is quite entertaining if you challenge him early (like level 13 or so). Generally need to cheese with Dimension Door trough the barrier to reach him so early.

The ghost mage architect in Pitax Palace basement is fun also.

None of those fags can withstand force bomb knockdowns.

 

[Haplo]

Hmm, I guess it is quite doable at 11 - but you need to optimize your strategy - and party composition. Or get very lucky, I guess.
2 clerics are great for this fight - double VineTraps and Blade Barriers.

Also a mage to catch his guards in a pit.

 

[Desiderius]

How do you Counterspell, some mod? Or do you mean just disable the enemy caster so he cannot cast.

Sonic Burst is not even close to Thundercaller. You only get a few Sonic Bursts (Thundercaller's has as many as rounds of Inspire), their DC is always at lvl of lvl 2 spell (Thundercaller's goes up every 2 levels) and damage is always stuck at 1d8 (Thundercaller's goes up by +2d8 every few levels).

The stun is the important part. And I've had casters miss their concentration check on the piddly damage too.

View attachment 11509

You can see in the combat log Linzi interrupting the Insane Wizard summoning his Azata Army, which is important since I can't close because of that trap. Tristian took advantage of the stun to pelt the Wizard to death from range with his Sling Staff. See Invis was important again here to spot the Wizard before he got the summon off.

Are you playing on TB or real time? Because I don't think you can break their concentration with damage on TB mod as they don't start casting until their turn.

I’m not using mods until devs are done patching. Plus I find TB combat immersion breaking for reasons exactly like this.

 

[Desiderius]

You can beat Ronery barrow lich at level 9. But lose his gear. You can reliably best him half the time at level 11.

Best spell on linzi at level gain early is hands down grease.

You get Grease wand at Manticore area. She has nothing else that targets Reflex. Leave Grease to Wiz.

 

[Desiderius]

Hmm, I guess it is quite doable at 11 - but you need to optimize your strategy - and party composition. Or get very lucky, I guess.
2 clerics are great for this fight - double VineTraps and Blade Barriers.

Also a mage to catch his guards in a pit.

Could also hack the source code. Playing great games as intended has its own appeal. The gear will wait.

 

[Desiderius]

If you’re doing that might as well go all in and start blowing those bombs out your nose.

I hear that’s pretty powerful.

i decided to have all my party members to be off tanks in case my melee brudas get owned/disabled,and since enemy casters dont use dispell like never mirror image/blur/displacement will allow them to do so (ok against enraged owlbears maybe not).

so with that in mind i would like some advice how to build linzi/tristian to be melee offtanks IN A LOREFRIENDLY MANNER OK?so no vivis splashes etc.
like when you are done healing tristian grabs his scimitar and starts beheading the enemies of dem faith(clerics with edgy weapons what a fucking heresy).

(1) I’m serious. Try out Breath Weapon bombs and let us know how it goes. It looks like it could be pretty good

(2) For Tristian I’ve done reach two-handers and ranged and yeah if you want tanky play Harrim. Stunning Barrier is good action economy for Harrim. Currently working toward Scion/MT with Crane Wing/Aspect/Angel Power for Tristian but that’s late game only.

(3) Linzi’s perfect off tank with Image, Reduce, and Cautious Fighter. Later on can go two-weapon to replace shield.

 

[Daidre]

I have tried Breath Weapon bombs and it did not go so well. I hate cone AoEs with friendly fire and targeting reflex instead touch AC was not all this good at least in ch1 with all high dex critters.

It is easier to stack INT and cognatogen later, so it should perform better.

 

[ArchAngel]

You get

You can beat Ronery barrow lich at level 9. But lose his gear. You can reliably best him half the time at level 11.

Best spell on linzi at level gain early is hands down grease.

You get Grease wand at Manticore area. She has nothing else that targets Reflex. Leave Grease to Wiz.

that is a terrible idea, Grease wand has DC 11.

 

[Delterius]

eh, you might as well use it early on

 

[Desiderius]

Cloak of Dreams was pretty terrible when I've tried it. Easy to miss that its party unfriendly, so I ended up putting most of my party to sleep - rather then the enemies

If they ever fix Double-Crosses and Ovrinbaane you could really go off.

 

[Delterius]

1000hours

i have beaten the staglord ten thousand times with a trillion characters...

and have yet to finish chapter 2

Now I'm wondering: are new chapters triggered once you finish the Main Quest for them, or is there some parallel time running behind the scenes? I don't want to solve the Troll Question early and then find out I robbed myself of nice exploration/kingdom development/sidequesting time.

 

[Desiderius]

You get

You can beat Ronery barrow lich at level 9. But lose his gear. You can reliably best him half the time at level 11.

Best spell on linzi at level gain early is hands down grease.

You get Grease wand at Manticore area. She has nothing else that targets Reflex. Leave Grease to Wiz.

that is a terrible idea, Grease wand has DC 11.

It also has 8 charges. Linzi’s Grease will always be a lvl one spell so won’t have much of a DC either. Heightened Grease? Let the Reflex specialists hit Reflex with Pits and Chains and Bombs (like the man said, Force Bombs OP - I use Tanglefoot).

 

[Desiderius]

1000hours

i have beaten the staglord ten thousand times with a trillion characters...

and have yet to finish chapter 2

Now I'm wondering: are new chapters triggered once you finish the Main Quest for them, or is there some parallel time running behind the scenes? I don't want to solve the Troll Question early and then find out I robbed myself of nice exploration/kingdom development/sidequesting time.

For Troll Trouble there’s an additional quest to save Bart if you wait that has nice EXP/loot. Haven’t found any in later chapters yet.

The timers are independent but you do eventually get the strong warning/stat eater hawks if you wait too long on chapter quests.