Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

So I sided with Darvin and got his little town. I’d never sided with either before.

What does siding with Linxia and the Helldykes get you?

A big pile of dicks, no joke. Linxia runs away proclaiming that her and her feeble Hellknights will set raze to your kingdom. I ended up butchering her after I sided with her.

Pretty sure if you suck up to her at every turn you’ll get a different outcome. But yeah, way overwritten.

 

[LannTheStupid]

But Lawful Evil is still most convenient alignment for barony-ruling

Which is kind of to be expected from a feudal lord with the right of pit and gallows and (later) a monarch. Death penalty is the best tool to manage feudal subjects.

 

[Trashos]

If what I am about to describe was done on purpose, whoever did it is a genius. I am going to narrate this from memory, as I am way past that point now, and it took a while to sink in. I hope my memory is not mistaken.

At the Witch Hut place, we find a ghost village and we learn the events that led to its destruction. We also meet a couple, the only survivors, and they ask us to help them with some minor quest. Then they go on to tell us how true love conquers all, how wonderful it is despite being against social expectations, and stuff like that.

My first impression was that somebody found a chance to preach against conservatism about love. I do not appreciate preaching in games, but whatever, from a certain angle it was just two NPCs sharing their love story and point of view. There was also something that felt surrealistic in that scene, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

Later, it struck me: I was being preached about love by the couple, while their love was the catalyst for the demise of the village! Basically, I was being given a somewhat cringeworthy speech about how love is more important than things like being accepted by your environment, all the while we were standing a few meters away from the catastrophic results of their love!

This was never spelled out, and I have to wonder whether it was done on purpose or somebody wanted to preach and a piece of genius was created by accident. But no matter what the case may be, the result is absolutely impressive.

Note that by saying "their love was the catalyst for the demise of the village", I don't necessarily mean that the couple was at fault. Everybody can make up their own minds. But oh dear, what a contrast of subjective and objective realities in that scene...


EDIT: As reminded in the comments below, it was not about interracial mixing, it was more generally about love against social expectations. So I made the relevant correction in the post. The post still stands, as the meat of it is contrast between subjective and objective realities.

 

[LannTheStupid]

We also meet an interracial couple (fey and human, iirc?), the only survivors

They're not interracial, they're both fey: a satir and a driad. And the conflict that lead to the destruction of the village was about

Spoiler

a narrow minded coward who was the village leader with clearly conservative view on marriage and social roles of women.

 

[Desiderius]

If what I am about to describe was done on purpose, whoever did it is a genius. I am going to narrate this from memory, as I am way past that point now, and it took a while to sink in. I hope my memory is not mistaken.

At the Witch Hut place, we find a ghost village and we learn the events that led to its destruction. We also meet an interracial couple (fey and human, iirc?), the only survivors, and they ask us to help them with some minor quest. Then they go on to tell us how true love conquers all, how wonderful it is despite any other differences, and stuff like that.

My first impression was that somebody found a chance to preach against racism. I do not appreciate preaching in games, but whatever, from a certain angle it was just two NPCs sharing their love story and point of view. There was also something that felt surrealistic in that scene, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

Later, it struck me: I was being preached about love by the couple, while their love was the catalyst for the demise of the village! Basically, I was being given a somewhat cringeworthy speech about how love is more important than things like race, all the while we were standing a few meters away from the catastrophic results of their love!

This was never spelled out, and I have to wonder whether it was done on purpose or somebody wanted to preach and a piece of genius was created by accident. But no matter what the case may be, the result is absolutely impressive.

Note that by saying "their love was the catalyst for the demise of the village", I don't necessarily mean that the couple was at fault. Everybody can make up their own minds. But oh dear, what a contrast of subjective and objective realities in that scene...

The difference between Fey and Human is deeper than race. It was also lesbo and breaking up what was going to be a family.

Didn’t need a curse for that to be tragic.

 

[panda]

If what I am about to describe was done on purpose, whoever did it is a genius. I am going to narrate this from memory, as I am way past that point now, and it took a while to sink in. I hope my memory is not mistaken.

At the Witch Hut place, we find a ghost village and we learn the events that led to its destruction. We also meet an interracial couple (fey and human, iirc?), the only survivors, and they ask us to help them with some minor quest. Then they go on to tell us how true love conquers all, how wonderful it is despite any other differences, and stuff like that.

My first impression was that somebody found a chance to preach against racism. I do not appreciate preaching in games, but whatever, from a certain angle it was just two NPCs sharing their love story and point of view. There was also something that felt surrealistic in that scene, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

Later, it struck me: I was being preached about love by the couple, while their love was the catalyst for the demise of the village! Basically, I was being given a somewhat cringeworthy speech about how love is more important than things like race, all the while we were standing a few meters away from the catastrophic results of their love!

This was never spelled out, and I have to wonder whether it was done on purpose or somebody wanted to preach and a piece of genius was created by accident. But no matter what the case may be, the result is absolutely impressive.

Uhm, i don't think it is preach against racism (or xenophobia to be precise), or "love wins all" trope.
There were several participants in events preceding the curse and quest shows how each one(including the girls in love) can be blamed without any favouritism.

Though, IMO it still sort of victim blaming in the end. Such stories happen all the time, but the deadly curse which made this one truly tragic was evoked by evil outside force

Spoiler

by N&#$*@! to ruin Cypress Queen's kingdom and fill A&!@$?%&

 

[Trashos]

Cheers for the corrections. I replaced interracial love with love against social expectations in my post above, and included an EDIT that explains the edits (so that the comments that follow don't look out of place). Everything I said still stands. The meat of the matter is love against social expectations and the contrast between subjective/objective realities. Let me know if the corrections work. If there are still mistakes in the post, also let me know.
I don't currently remember WHY it was against social expectations, but it doesn't really matter.

the conflict that lead to the destruction of the village was about a narrow minded coward who was the village leader with clearly conservative view on marriage and social roles of women.

I am sure that someone who holds the "narrow minded coward"'s opinions is not going to see it like that. You obviously believe that the couple is in the right, but to me it is not that clear. Going against social expectations is not right-by-default. It is a clash of interests. At any rate, their love was the catalyst for the destruction of the village (a catalyst is something that sets off a series of events, and it is a concept from Chemistry. The catalyst is not necessarily to blame. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't).

Also, see below.

Uhm, i don't think it is preach against racism (or xenophobia to be precise), or "love wins all" trope.
There were several participants in events preceding the curse and quest shows how each one(including the girls in love) can be blamed without favouritism.

I think it was clearly a "love wins all" trope when Tiressia (or was it Falchos?) gave her little speech at the end about how wonderful their love is. That's how the couple sees it, at least. Upon closer examination, it just their subjective reality. And that's the part, that contrast between the subjective and the objective (the objective being a ghost village), that I consider genius.

Yes, I remember that I was given the chance to point the finger and explain myself at some point. I didn't try all the options to see all explanations, I will have to do it in my next playthrough.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I think if individual freedom (including freedom to love) cannot be tolerated by someone's social expectaitons then those with such expectations deserve to die. There are at least 2 examples in the game, and both societies were either destroyed or seriously damaged. And it is good.

 

[Desiderius]

Cheers for the corrections. I replaced interracial love with love against social expectations in my post above, and included an EDIT that explains the edits (so that the comments that follow don't look out of place). Everything I said still stands. The meat of the matter is love against social expectations and the contrast between subjective/objective realities. Let me know if the corrections work. If there are still mistakes in the post, also let me know.
I don't currently remember WHY it was against social expectations, but it doesn't really matter.

the conflict that lead to the destruction of the village was about a narrow minded coward who was the village leader with clearly conservative view on marriage and social roles of women.

I am sure that someone who holds the "narrow minded coward"'s opinions is not going to see it like that. You obviously believe that the couple is in the right, but to me it is not that clear. Going against social expectations is not right-by-default. It is a clash of interests. At any rate, their love was the catalyst for the destruction of the village (a catalyst is something that sets off a series of events, and it is a concept from Chemistry. The catalyst is not necessarily to blame. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't).

Also, see below.

Uhm, i don't think it is preach against racism (or xenophobia to be precise), or "love wins all" trope.
There were several participants in events preceding the curse and quest shows how each one(including the girls in love) can be blamed without favouritism.

I think it was clearly a "love wins all" trope when Tiressia (or was it Falchos?) gave her little speech at the end about how wonderful their love is. That's how the couple sees it, at least. Upon closer examination, it just their subjective reality. And that's the part, that contrast between the subjective and the objective (the objective being a ghost village), that I consider genius.

Yes, I remember that I was given the chance to point the finger and explain myself at some point. I didn't try all the options to see all explanations, I will have to do it in my next playthrough.

It wasn’t just against social expectations either. By the SJWs own standards there was a definite power imbalance involved. Seems more like Droit du Seigneur or Zeus raping Europa. First World having her way with the locals.

Since it was lesbo it’s all good tho.

 

[Pink Eye]

Yikes. The DLC dungeon is kicking my ass on unfair. Unlike the main game, you don't get free levels. Which further makes the early game pretty difficult. So far I've gotten to floor 8.

 

[razvedchiki]

SJWs hate Marxists? Citation needed?

Identity politics dont really interest the real left,aka the communist left.

 

[Desiderius]

SJWs hate Marxists? Citation needed?

Identity politics dont really interest the real left,aka the communist left.

I see you bring to politics and history that special touch you bring to your builds.

Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring.

The Real Left are working people. Communists are petty tyrant spoiled rich kid dipshits too (cf. Engels, the Weathermen, Che, Pantifa, ad nauseum). Communism thus doesn't really interest the real Left either.

Identity Politics (the Poz) has been boning Working People and their families/communities/insitutions for a long time (the Jaffe Memo is over fifty), in the same way and for the same reasons Nyrissa fucked up that family and that village.

 

[Pink Eye]

You people are weird, lol.

 

[Desiderius]

those with such expectations deserve to die

Those expectations or those with them? I don't think those pogroms are going to turn out quite how you're hoping.

 

[Mikeal]

You people are weird, lol.

You don't even know how.

 

[Yosharian]

SJWs hate Marxists? Citation needed?

Identity politics dont really interest the real left,aka the communist left.

I see you bring to politics and history that special touch you bring to your builds.

Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring.

The Real Left are working people. Communists are petty tyrant spoiled rich kid dipshits too (cf. Engels, the Weathermen, Che, Pantifa, ad nauseum). Communism thus doesn't really interest the real Left either.

Identity Politics (the Poz) has been boning Working People and their families/communities/insitutions for a long time (the Jaffe Memo is over fifty), in the same way and for the same reasons Nyrissa fucked up that family and that village.

How the fuck do Gamergaters bring IDPOL into gaming?

 

[Delterius]

nyrissa being a cautionary tale about identity politics just turned this is into cognitive dissonance: the thread

 

[Desiderius]

nyrissa being a cautionary tale about identity politics just turned this is into cognitive dissonance: the thread

That's not how literature works. Nyrissa has her own tale. Good tales always speak to the concerns of their times (as well as the timeless) organically (as did LoTR and WWII), not intentionally.

 

[Desiderius]

SJWs hate Marxists? Citation needed?

Identity politics dont really interest the real left,aka the communist left.

I see you bring to politics and history that special touch you bring to your builds.

Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring.

The Real Left are working people. Communists are petty tyrant spoiled rich kid dipshits too (cf. Engels, the Weathermen, Che, Pantifa, ad nauseum). Communism thus doesn't really interest the real Left either.

Identity Politics (the Poz) has been boning Working People and their families/communities/insitutions for a long time (the Jaffe Memo is over fifty), in the same way and for the same reasons Nyrissa fucked up that family and that village.

How the fuck do Gamergaters bring IDPOL into gaming?

They didn't, they protested it. Rightly so.

 

[Pink Eye]

Dwarner bro. I don't understand what you're saying half the time, lol.

 

[Desiderius]

Dwarner bro. I don't understand what you're saying half the time, lol.

Someday you will. Don’t sell yourself short.

 

[Yosharian]

They didn't, they protested it. Rightly so.

On Saturday you wrote:

The Poz pushed by the Gamergate freaks on games and gamers is illiberal.

Now you're saying that GG protests IDPOL. So which is it, is GG pushing it or protesting it?

 

[Desiderius]

They didn't, they protested it. Rightly so.

On Saturday you wrote:

The Poz pushed by the Gamergate freaks on games and gamers is illiberal.

Now you're saying that GG protests IDPOL. So which is it, is GG pushing it or protesting it?

Of course Gamergaters aren’t pushing the Poz. I can see where that could be ambiguous. The Gamergate freaks means the freaks (Sliverstring Media and their journo buds) who sparked the whole thing.

The VCs behind it tried (and mostly succeeded) to shut down any criticism so now the people who pushed back are known as Gamergaters, either affectionately by those who know what happened or derisively by the freaks and/or those who fell for their bullshit.

 

[Serus]

You people are weird, lol.

And we are proud because of it.

 

[Pink Eye]

I think I've wasted over 30 hours playing the Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC. And so far, I think I've enjoyed Eldritch Scoundrel a lot. It's basically like the Arcane Trickster, except cooler.