Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Sykar]

Do you think Icy Prison and Mass Icy Prison are good enough that they might replace Chains of Light as the go-to 'Disable that fucking cunt' spell? I went Conjuration specialist because Grease, Glitterdust, Web, and Chains of Light are just absolute gold for CC, especially early on, but even later on with CoL. But if Icy Prison is better lategame, I might be tempted to get Evocation instead, both for my Spell Focus feats and for the Arcane +2 DC selection.

Of course, I can always Extend and/or Heighten CoL in order to use it in those 7th, 8th and 9th level slots, so Conjuration still feels pretty strong, even if Tsunami turns out to be meh.

Thoughts?

This is my current spell list, just FYI:

Spells (+1: New Arcana, *: Bonus spell from Arcane Bloodline, Bold: Important spell):
1st: Grease, Mage Armor, Shield, Expeditious Retreat, Enlarge Person, Magic Missile*
2nd: Glitterdust, Web, Cat's Grace, Mirror Image, Stone Call, Invisibility*
3rd: Haste, Displacement, Stinking Cloud, Communal Protection From Arrows, +1: Communal Resist Energy, Dispel Magic*
4th: Greater Invisibility, Enervation, Bestow Curse, Remove Curse, Dimension Door*
5th: Animal Growth, Icy Prison, Echolocation, Vampiric Shadow Shield, +1: Cloudkill, Break Enchantment*
6th: Chains of Light, Sirocco, Acid Fog, True Seeing*
7th: Legendary Proportions, Joyful Rapture, Greater Polymorph, Banishment*
8th: Seamantle, Dragonkind III, Sunburst, +1: Frightful Aspect
9th: Tsunami, Fiery Body, Mass Icy Prison

Edit: actually I think I might stick with Conjuration. I just found out that Rod of Power Source exists which gives an insane +4 to Conjuration spell DCs and isn't that difficult to get. And Conjuration is just more flexible over the course of the game.

Web is a transmutation spell, just saying. Icy Prison has the nice advantage of rooting the target in case of a failed save, so there is that. Personally I like Illusion the most for DC caster. Also Mass Icy Prison is a good way to specialize in since the feat increases the DC to break out by 2 making it even safer.

 

[Desiderius]

Tsunami is a mass DMG + knockback IIRC, the range is huge and the beam pretty wide so it's solid as far as hitting the whole screen at once, but it's pretty vanilla/meh for lvl9.

MIP is great, though I think part of it don't work on Monarchs n shit.

Sadly I've found the majority of lategame spells underwhelming, ending up almost never casting 'em and sticking to my trusted 2-6lvl ones

It takes some work to make them good, but the potential is there.

Alternatively you can just let your Bard be your principle offensive caster (30DC AoE disabling targeting weak save + high level Dispels) and wreck house with your other six toons.

Which Bard spell are you referring to there?

Several over the course of the game, but principally thinking of late game Shouts/Presence/Frightening Tune. Over the course of the game you end up casting Slow alot.

Shout, Greater ends up 30DC with the Evo rod and 32CHR.

 

[Yosharian]

Web is a transmutation spell, just saying. Icy Prison has the nice advantage of rooting the target in case of a failed save, so there is that. Personally I like Illusion the most for DC caster. Also Mass Icy Prison is a good way to specialize in since the feat increases the DC to break out by 2 making it even safer.

It's possible that Web was transmutation in 3.5E, I even have a vague memory of this being the case. It isn't in Pathfinder, though: it's Conjuration. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/web/ Never mind, it appears that Owlcat have taken it upon themselves to change Web to transmutation. The cunts. And it was Conjuration in 3.5E, too.

Do we have actual confirmation that Spell Specialization works correctly with the Icy Prison break out DC?

 

[Yosharian]

Several over the course of the game, but principally thinking of late game Shouts/Presence/Frightening Tune. Over the course of the game you end up casting Slow alot.

Shout, Greater ends up 30DC with the Evo rod and 32CHR.

Ahh right. Yeah I hadn't thought of speccing into Evocation. Hmm. Interesting.

Doesn't that Evo rod change all your spell damage to Fire, though? How's that work out against the lategame mobs we're talking about? I would expect Fire to be commonly-resisted, compared to the Sonic damage of the Shout spells.

 

[Desiderius]

I thought it would be worse than it is. Main thing is Fort Save. I don’t even take Spell Focus, but you could probably get in the low mid 30s DC if you went all out.

Pretty sure Web is Transmutation since Octavia can use it in her School slot.

 

[Yosharian]

Alright peeps, I'd be very grateful if anyone could help me figure out the locations of the last few items on my shopping list.

1. Gloves: Gloves of Deathdealer (1d6 extra sneak attack damage) - this one is really annoying because I know they're easy to get, I just can't remember where. I'm pretty sure it's relatively early.
2. Belt: Belt of Physical Perfection +8 (+8 to all physical stats) - you can get one of these before HATEOT, but where?
3. Feet: Swamp Dweller's Boots (immunity to ability drain/damage)
   
4. Feet: Hellstrider Boots (Fire resistance 30, Immunity to Poison)
5. Feet: Boots of the Light Step (Permanent Feather Step)
6. Shoulders: Enchanter's Cape (+1 bonus to Enchantment spell DC) - this is a rather valuable item so I'm surprised I can't find any info anywhere on its location
7. Gloves: Gloves of Precise Shot (+5 untyped bonus to ranged weapon attack rolls)

That's it.

 

[Desiderius]

Several over the course of the game, but principally thinking of late game Shouts/Presence/Frightening Tune. Over the course of the game you end up casting Slow alot.

Shout, Greater ends up 30DC with the Evo rod and 32CHR.

Ahh right. Yeah I hadn't thought of speccing into Evocation. Hmm. Interesting

Archon’s Aura is Evo too.

 

[Yosharian]

I thought it would be worse than it is. Main thing is Fort Save. I don’t even take Spell Focus, but you could probably get in the low mid 30s DC if you went all out.

Pretty sure Web is Transmutation since Octavia can use it in her School slot.

What the fuck. You're right, it is listed as Transmutation on the wiki. What in actual fuck, Owlcat.

 

[Desiderius]

Alright peeps, I'd be very grateful if anyone could help me figure out the locations of the last few items on my shopping list.

1. Gloves: Gloves of Deathdealer (1d6 extra sneak attack damage) - this one is really annoying because I know they're easy to get, I just can't remember where. I'm pretty sure it's relatively early.
2. Belt: Belt of Physical Perfection +8 (+8 to all physical stats) - you can get one of these before HATEOT, but where?
3. Feet: Swamp Dweller's Boots (immunity to ability drain/damage)
   
4. Feet: Hellstrider Boots (Fire resistance 30, Immunity to Poison)
5. Feet: Boots of the Light Step (Permanent Feather Step)
6. Shoulders: Enchanter's Cape (+1 bonus to Enchantment spell DC) - this is a rather valuable item so I'm surprised I can't find any info anywhere on its location
7. Gloves: Gloves of Precise Shot (+5 untyped bonus to ranged weapon attack rolls)

That's it.

Belt is Ithulliak. Cape is on way to Vordokai I think. It’s not really that good. Hellstrider Boots are late - Grocery Stalls?

 

[Yosharian]

Belt is Ithulliak. Cape is on way to Vordokai I think. It’s not really that good. Hellstrider Boots are late - Grocery Stalls?

Well, it's great if you're trying to maximise your Enchanting DCs.

What do you mean by grocery stalls? You mean the Pitax traders?

BTW while we're on this subject, what's the earliest you can sneak into the Lonely Barrow, chapter-wise?

 

[Desiderius]

Belt is Ithulliak. Cape is on way to Vordokai I think. It’s not really that good. Hellstrider Boots are late - Grocery Stalls?

Well, it's great if you're trying to maximise your Enchanting DCs.

What do you mean by grocery stalls? You mean the Pitax traders?

It’s a location name in Thousand Voices. Maybe the one with the Mandranga ambush?

 

[Desiderius]

Belt is Ithulliak. Cape is on way to Vordokai I think. It’s not really that good. Hellstrider Boots are late - Grocery Stalls?

Well, it's great if you're trying to maximise your Enchanting DCs

Not worth opportunity cost.

 

[Daidre]

I can see why Avellone allegedly applied more effort to this project than the other projects he has collaborated with. HateOT is very Avellonian/PSTormenty (as is Nyrissa, as a concept, and her dream). I guess he wanted to show some of the things he wanted to do in PoE, if they only let him. The whole game does feel like a mix of Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment, which is what PoE wanted but failed to be. In Kingmaker, the concept kinda works. I don't know if Avellone is going to collaborate with these guys again, but maybe he has found a worthy team.

One of the things I personally love about P:K - how it starts in really pulpy generic fantasy territory and thickens its themes and characterization as story progress to tie all up in suddenly Avellonian grand finale (afaik he did some serious work on the last chapter that were not present in original module). An when you look back/replay everything that happens starting from chapter 1 ties so neatly into the main plot that it is impossible not to appreciate.

Nice contrast to PoE that front-loads on "intellectual" bs and ends with the puff instead of showdown.

 

[Sykar]

Web is a transmutation spell, just saying. Icy Prison has the nice advantage of rooting the target in case of a failed save, so there is that. Personally I like Illusion the most for DC caster. Also Mass Icy Prison is a good way to specialize in since the feat increases the DC to break out by 2 making it even safer.

It's possible that Web was transmutation in 3.5E, I even have a vague memory of this being the case. It isn't in Pathfinder, though: it's Conjuration. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/web/ Never mind, it appears that Owlcat have taken it upon themselves to change Web to transmutation. The cunts. And it was Conjuration in 3.5E, too.

Do we have actual confirmation that Spell Specialization works correctly with the Icy Prison break out DC?

Sorry, that I do not know, just going by what the spell is supposed to do and how the DC is calculated and it is caster level based, so with spell specialization the DC to break out should be two levels higher. That is only for breaking out of the root though, and well longer duration but has no bearing on the freezing aspect so there is that.

 

[Yosharian]

Alright I'll test it tonight I guess.

Can you equip and benefit from two Rods at the same time? For example the +4 DC Conjuration one AND the +3 DC Evo one simultaneously?

 

[Desiderius]

Alright I'll test it tonight I guess.

Can you equip and benefit from two Rods at the same time? For example the +4 DC Conjuration one AND the +3 DC Evo one simultaneously?

No reason not to.

 

[purpleblob]

Trashos

Come back and tell us how you feel about the House after trying to find high and low for one of the key fragment you need.

 

[Haplo]

Tsunami is a mass DMG + knockback IIRC, the range is huge and the beam pretty wide so it's solid as far as hitting the whole screen at once, but it's pretty vanilla/meh for lvl9.

MIP is great, though I think part of it don't work on Monarchs n shit.

Sadly I've found the majority of lategame spells underwhelming, ending up almost never casting 'em and sticking to my trusted 2-6lvl ones

Icy Prison is great earlier (though I still prefer Chains), but when you get Mass, you're mostly facing enemies with superhuman Reflexes.

Edit: Chains also ignore Spell Resistance, so can be nice for golems for example.

Still a dedicated DC Evoker can probably make it work.

Majority of lategame spells underwhelming? Stormbolts would like to have a word with you.

 

[Trashos]

purpleblob, hmmm, right, it was all nice and dandy switching between realities to get the first 2 keys as easily as possible, but now I am getting sweaty. At any rate, I was commenting on the companion floor before, which I thought was great. I am now suffering to find the 3rd key, but hopefully it is going to be easier for the next playthroughs, once I have done this once before.

One of the things I personally love about P:K - how it starts in really pulpy generic fantasy territory and thickens its themes and characterization as story progress to tie all up in suddenly Avellonian grand finale (afaik he did some serious work on the last chapter that were not present in original module). An when you look back/replay everything that happens starting from chapter 1 ties so neatly into the main plot that it is impossible not to appreciate.

Nice contrast to PoE that front-loads on "intellectual" bs and ends with the puff instead of showdown.

Another thing I want to point out is that early on I was like "what a bunch of faggots my companions are", and by this point I care about almost all of them. It has been a journey.

I still think that some of the companion concepts should have been better, but their character development side has been mind blowing.

 

[Haplo]

BTW while we're on this subject, what's the earliest you can sneak into the Lonely Barrow, chapter-wise?

Chapter 2!!!

Alright peeps, I'd be very grateful if anyone could help me figure out the locations of the last few items on my shopping list.

Feet: Hellstrider Boots (Fire resistance 30, Immunity to Poison)

Don't remember most, but these (or similar, boots with high Fire resist or even immunity) I think came from final Kaessi quest location - so would be during Chapter VII?

 

[Haplo]

hmmm, right, it was all nice and dandy switching between realities to get the first 2 keys as easily as possible, but now I am getting sweaty. At any rate, I was commenting on the companion floor before, which I thought was great. I am now suffering to find the 3rd key, but hopefully it is going to be easier for the next playthroughs, once I have done this once before.

A small hint about an easy to miss item: If you like bigass swords, stick for a while in the area where you've found Amiri, by the tombstone. You should get an extra encounter on your way back then. Unless you already got it.

 

[Yosharian]

Well, I tested Spell Specialization with Icy Prison - you can't even select the spell! So there goes that idea.

 

[ArchAngel]

One of the things I personally love about P:K - how it starts in really pulpy generic fantasy territory and thickens its themes and characterization as story progress to tie all up in suddenly Avellonian grand finale (afaik he did some serious work on the last chapter that were not present in original module). An when you look back/replay everything that happens starting from chapter 1 ties so neatly into the main plot that it is impossible not to appreciate.

Nice contrast to PoE that front-loads on "intellectual" bs and ends with the puff instead of showdown.

Another thing I want to point out is that early on I was like "what a bunch of faggots my companions are", and by this point I care about almost all of them. It has been a journey.

I still think that some of the companion concepts should have been better, but their character development side has been mind blowing.

And people don't believe us when they complain about them in Act 1 :D

 

[Desiderius]

Another thing I want to point out is that early on I was like "what a bunch of faggots my companions are", and by this point I care about almost all of them. It has been a journey.

I still think that some of the companion concepts should have been better, but their character development side has been mind blowing.

The benefits of growing up on Pushkin.

 

[Trashos]

Pathfinder Kingmaker: A game for fans of Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Miguel de Cervantes, and Alexander Pushkin.

(I am not well-versed in the ways of Pushkin myself, though)