Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Daidre]

So, I finished Chapter 6. I guess the game ended, but I am probably going to reload in order to see Chapter 7.

If you got through House of Hate unscathed than imho Chapter 7 is must play. It is not very long, 4 hours max, but some really cool content there. You'd probably regret missing out on it while emotions still running hot.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I'm in the "troll portion" of the game. My bizarre little party is almost complete. It's wasn't sure how it would pan out, but it's going very well.

• MC is an Arcane Trickster
• Valerie (Vanguard)
• Harrim (Cleric)
• Jaethal (Cleric)
• DLC Twins (Kineticists)
• Jubilost (Alchemist)

The plan is to dump Valerie for Nok-Nok, but Jaethal inexplicably tends to be the weak link of my party. The healing provided by The Twins and Jubilost are actually quite substantial, so Jaethal may get the boot instead. I've considered respec'ing her, but I'm not sure what I would change her into. Overall, the group needs lots of management, but the volume and mixture of spells, skills, and abilities really lets me perform well with good endurance.

 

[Desiderius]

I'm in the "troll portion" of the game. My bizarre little party is almost complete. It's wasn't sure how it would pan out, but it's going very well.

• MC is an Arcane Trickster
• Valerie (Vanguard)
• Harrim (Cleric)
• Jaethal (Cleric)
• DLC Twins (Kineticists)
• Jubilost (Alchemist)

The plan is to dump Valerie for Nok-Nok, but Jaethal inexplicably tends to be the weak link of my party. The healing provided by The Twins and Jubilost are actually quite substantial, so Jaethal may get the boot instead. I've considered respec'ing her, but I'm not sure what I would change her into. Overall, the group needs lots of management, but the volume and mixture of spells, skills, and abilities really lets me perform well with good endurance.

Valerie's INT is an awkward fit for Vanguard, and flat-footed isn't as big a deal with Heavy Armor and Shield, so the Uncanny Dodge is almost wasted. My next playthrough (in two or three years) will have a Vanguard, but it won't be Val.

I've played Nok as Vanguard, but he's pretty feat-starved already and Super Double Debilitation (at Rogue lvl 16 it's -8/-8) is just too good to pass up. Plus he's already got UD.

 

[Trashos]

I liked the length of the game, until (and including) Ch 6

well that makes one of us.

I doubt that character development, which is so awesome that it should be taught in RPG schools, would have worked equally well in a shorter game. But also the later chapters are very good. I can see myself replaying the game many times in full.

 

[Shadenuat]

Could have worked in a shorter House.

 

[Pink Eye]

By the way guys, if anyone has lots of free time. We still need people to help test out the endless mod: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/pf-kingmaker-endlessdungeon-mod.130777/

Why are you people seriously posting on the Steam forums?

We made it a better place. But then mods fucking banned us.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the Hellknights quest.

It was a Kickstarter reward, it won't be fixed. Yes, it's awful.

 

[Pink Eye]

Hellknight's quest was indeed a kickstarter quest. It fucking sucks, man.

 

[Desiderius]

Hellknight's quest was indeed a kickstarter quest. It fucking sucks, man.

If you’re LG you can hose both sides and end up getting some decent EXP and loot in addition to fighting a demon. Siding with the fugitive dude ends up fine too. If you side with people who come in and rape your own subjects I don’t know what exactly you were expecting.

That shit has consequences. People want to RP evil acts without evil consequences.

 

[Trashos]

Desiderius, I am not complaining about the stats penalties for siding with the Hellknights. I am complaining that there is no payoff for siding with the Hellknights and taking all those penalties! Not only that, but I had to fight the Hellknights before I got to fight that other bastard, even though I did my best to side with the Hellknights!

Leaders do not take such measures for the heck of it, they take such measures to gain something. In this case, I naturally wanted to gain the Hellknights as my allies. And what did I gain? Nothing. When I went to the lounge to find the Hellknights, there was no dialogue option that sounded like something I wanted to say to them. The quest designer just set me up in the cheapest way possible.

That is 0/10 RPG quest design, and probably just something the designer did to make a point. "You should not do such things!". Well, thank you for the lesson. Now, can I have my own opinion? Am I playing an RPG or what? That is not "consequences", that is either trolling or preaching.

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius, I am not complaining about the stats penalties for siding with the Hellknights. I am complaining that there is no payoff for siding with the Hellknights and taking all those penalties! Not only that, but I had to fight the Hellknights before I got to fight that other bastard, even though I did my best to side with the Hellknights!

Leaders do not take such measures for the heck of it, they take such measures to gain something. In this case, I naturally wanted to gain the Hellknights as my allies. And what did I gain? Nothing. When I went to the lounge to find the Hellknights, there was no dialogue option that sounded like something I wanted to say to them. The quest designer just set me up in the cheapest way possible.

That is 0/10 RPG quest design, and probably just something the designer did to make a point. "You should not do such things!". Well, thank you for the lesson. Now, can I have my own opinion? Am I playing an RPG or what? That is not "consequences", that is either trolling or preaching.

Siding with assholes leaves you ending up holding the bag. If you don’t know who the mark is you’re the mark.

That’s the best kind of preaching - the hard truth your pansy ass doesn’t want to hear. You don’t get an evil ally by letting them have their way with your people - you get it by having your way with them. At your feet or at your throat - that’s evil.

Have you tried making them submit to you?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

side against the hellkngihts because it's a shit quest and you get a really good vendor if you don't side with the hellknights

 

[Trashos]

Have you tried making them submit to you?

I tried having them submit to me, I tried playing it cool, I tried fully submitting to them. I reloaded a number of times to try different things and nothing worked.

That’s the best kind of preaching - the hard truth your pansy ass doesn’t want to hear.

The relevant truth is that sometimes a leader has to take tough measures that his subjects may not appreciate. Be it for his own ass or for a greater good that his subjects are in no position to see. Such a quest would have been interesting. This is not it.

"Choose between two evils" would also have been interesting. Again, this is not it.

And I see that you do not disagree that this is not RPG quest design.

 

[Cryomancer]

Jubilost is the best companion in lore and in combat utility.

 

[Desiderius]

Have you tried making them submit to you?

I tried having them submit to me, I tried playing it cool, I tried fully submitting to them. I reloaded a number of times to try different things and nothing worked.

That’s the best kind of preaching - the hard truth your pansy ass doesn’t want to hear.

The relevant truth is that sometimes a leader has to take tough measures that his subjects may not appreciate. Be it for his own ass or for a greater good that his subjects are in no position to see. Such a quest would have been interesting. This is not it.

"Choose between two evils" would also have been interesting. Again, this is not it.

And I see that you do not disagree that this is not RPG quest design.

I don’t RP Evil because Evil is for suckers. Never found out. It’s entirely plausible that the Hellknights wouldn’t give an upstart like you the time of day no matter what you did. In that case the point of the quest was whether you help Darvin uphold his deal with Mammon or not.

 

[Trashos]

I don’t RP Evil because Evil is for suckers. Never found out. It’s entirely plausible that the Hellknights wouldn’t give an upstart like you the time of day no matter what you did. In that case the point of the quest was whether you help Darvin uphold his deal with Mammon or not.

From my point of view, and knowing only what the game presented to me beforehand, both sides looked evil to me. I could choose (or so I thought) to side with an evil badass faction or some wanted criminal weirdo. That's the choice I was presented with, as I perceived it.

However, that is not important. What is important is that there is a reason why decent RPG quests are not designed like this.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Spoiler

I'm in the "troll portion" of the game. My bizarre little party is almost complete. It's wasn't sure how it would pan out, but it's going very well.

• MC is an Arcane Trickster
• Valerie (Vanguard)
• Harrim (Cleric)
• Jaethal (Cleric)
• DLC Twins (Kineticists)
• Jubilost (Alchemist)

The plan is to dump Valerie for Nok-Nok, but Jaethal inexplicably tends to be the weak link of my party. The healing provided by The Twins and Jubilost are actually quite substantial, so Jaethal may get the boot instead. I've considered respec'ing her, but I'm not sure what I would change her into. Overall, the group needs lots of management, but the volume and mixture of spells, skills, and abilities really lets me perform well with good endurance.

Valerie's INT is an awkward fit for Vanguard, and flat-footed isn't as big a deal with Heavy Armor and Shield, so the Uncanny Dodge is almost wasted. My next playthrough (in two or three years) will have a Vanguard, but it won't be Val.

I've played Nok as Vanguard, but he's pretty feat-starved already and Super Double Debilitation (at Rogue lvl 16 it's -8/-8) is just too good to pass up. Plus he's already got UD.

She's definitely not optimized. I wanted to try out the Slayer, since it seems like the mary-sue of melee classes. The Vanguard seemed both the most interesting and thematically appropriate for Valerie, even if not optimal. She was never intended to stick around anyway.

 

[Yosharian]

Who you having trouble with, Yosh?

Not really having trouble with any of them exactly, just can't figure out anything interesting to do with Rerongar or Tristian, other than to simply build them out competently in their core classes. Eccle seems underpowered and boring, and straight Strength Scion without any dips is just... ugh.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I wonder why someone needs Yosharian builds when those exist: https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/page1?as=1649904300 , https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/companion_builds/page1?as=1649904300 , and https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/page1?as=1649904300 .
But, I guess, Steam means exposure, fame and probably something else.

 

[Yosharian]

I wonder why someone needs Yosharian builds when those exist: https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/page1?as=1649904300 , https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/companion_builds/page1?as=1649904300 , and https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/page1?as=1649904300 .
But, I guess, Steam means exposure, fame and probably something else.

Username checks out.

 

[Desiderius]

Who you having trouble with, Yosh?

Not really having trouble with any of them exactly, just can't figure out anything interesting to do with Rerongar or Tristian, other than to simply build them out competently in their core classes. Eccle seems underpowered and boring, and straight Strength Scion without any dips is just... ugh.

Roahin has a nice Reg tank build at GoG. Then there’s always the classic DD splash to make him an OP General. I’ve got him on Feyspeaker/MT (have to wait for alignment change) on playthrough that I got bored with hitting skip day 200 times. Could probably do something cool there with Armag Armor Smilodon form.

Tristian you have to realize that Frightful Aspect is completely busted and just have him wreck house. Echolocation cancels the Blindness and Angelform is fun. Can even do it as straight Cleric if you like. I prefer a martial class splash for Glaive (and Axes late) but you could just take Fauchard feat instead. EA/MT is reasonable but unspectacular if you don’t want to melee. Roahin has a MT nuker that seems ok if that’s your thing. Archon’s Aura is Evocation.

 

[Yosharian]

Can that Warlord guy be tripped in the fight between him and Amiri? I was pondering on a trip build for her, but maybe Ovinrbaane protects him from trips. Or maybe he's got plot immunity to it.

 

[Desiderius]

Spoiler

I'm in the "troll portion" of the game. My bizarre little party is almost complete. It's wasn't sure how it would pan out, but it's going very well.

• MC is an Arcane Trickster
• Valerie (Vanguard)
• Harrim (Cleric)
• Jaethal (Cleric)
• DLC Twins (Kineticists)
• Jubilost (Alchemist)

The plan is to dump Valerie for Nok-Nok, but Jaethal inexplicably tends to be the weak link of my party. The healing provided by The Twins and Jubilost are actually quite substantial, so Jaethal may get the boot instead. I've considered respec'ing her, but I'm not sure what I would change her into. Overall, the group needs lots of management, but the volume and mixture of spells, skills, and abilities really lets me perform well with good endurance.

Valerie's INT is an awkward fit for Vanguard, and flat-footed isn't as big a deal with Heavy Armor and Shield, so the Uncanny Dodge is almost wasted. My next playthrough (in two or three years) will have a Vanguard, but it won't be Val.

I've played Nok as Vanguard, but he's pretty feat-starved already and Super Double Debilitation (at Rogue lvl 16 it's -8/-8) is just too good to pass up. Plus he's already got UD.

She's definitely not optimized. I wanted to try out the Slayer, since it seems like the mary-sue of melee classes. The Vanguard seemed both the most interesting and thematically appropriate for Valerie, even if not optimal. She was never intended to stick around anyway.

Vanguard’s Bond is solid (unfortunately doesn’t hit +2/+2 until lvl 15) but duration is INT bonus so not great for Val.

 

[Yosharian]

Who you having trouble with, Yosh?

Not really having trouble with any of them exactly, just can't figure out anything interesting to do with Rerongar or Tristian, other than to simply build them out competently in their core classes. Eccle seems underpowered and boring, and straight Strength Scion without any dips is just... ugh.

Roahin has a nice Reg tank build at GoG. Then there’s always the classic DD splash to make him an OP General. I’ve got him on Feyspeaker/MT (have to wait for alignment change) on playthrough that I got bored with hitting skip day 200 times. Could probably do something cool there with Armag Armor Smilodon form.

Tristian you have to realize that Frightful Aspect is completely busted and just have him wreck house. Echolocation cancels the Blindness and Angelform is fun. Can even do it as straight Cleric if you like. I prefer a martial class splash for Glaive (and Axes late) but you could just take Fauchard feat instead. EA/MT is reasonable but unspectacular if you don’t want to melee. Roahin has a MT nuker that seems ok if that’s your thing. Archon’s Aura is Evocation.

Ohh right yeah DD would improve his general skills. Good idea. Maybe I could have him take Sorc levels with the Abyssal bloodline as well. Completely useless in combat, but nice for the strength bonuses. Or wait, is that even possible since DD forces Draconic bloodline?

Nukes for Tristian.. meh. Just, meh. Reach Cleric with that str score sounds... underpowered.

 

[Desiderius]

I wonder why someone needs Yosharian builds when those exist: https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/page1?as=1649904300 , https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/companion_builds/page1?as=1649904300 , and https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/page1?as=1649904300 .
But, I guess, Steam means exposure, fame and probably something else.

Because InEffect doesn’t understand team dynamics. All his builds are solo builds.