Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[LannTheStupid]

Needed QoL improvements: switch weapons button

What about this one? https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/75

 

[Desiderius]

Who you having trouble with, Yosh?

Not really having trouble with any of them exactly, just can't figure out anything interesting to do with Rerongar or Tristian, other than to simply build them out competently in their core classes. Eccle seems underpowered and boring, and straight Strength Scion without any dips is just... ugh.

Roahin has a nice Reg tank build at GoG. Then there’s always the classic DD splash to make him an OP General. I’ve got him on Feyspeaker/MT (have to wait for alignment change) on playthrough that I got bored with hitting skip day 200 times. Could probably do something cool there with Armag Armor Smilodon form.

Tristian you have to realize that Frightful Aspect is completely busted and just have him wreck house. Echolocation cancels the Blindness and Angelform is fun. Can even do it as straight Cleric if you like. I prefer a martial class splash for Glaive (and Axes late) but you could just take Fauchard feat instead. EA/MT is reasonable but unspectacular if you don’t want to melee. Roahin has a MT nuker that seems ok if that’s your thing. Archon’s Aura is Evocation.

Ohh right yeah DD would improve his general skills. Good idea. Maybe I could have him take Sorc levels with the Abyssal bloodline as well. Completely useless in combat, but nice for the strength bonuses. Or wait, is that even possible since DD forces Draconic bloodline?

Nukes for Tristian.. meh. Just, meh. Reach Cleric with that str score sounds... underpowered.

Game gives out STR like candy. Get it to ten, put on a belt and Enlarge and you’re 16 STR by lvl 6. Late game you’re pushing 30. Cleric has game’s best self-buffs and it’s still a 3/4 BAB class. Still can't believe that this happened:

And that was with Scion/MT build (no Power Attack or Aspect yet). I respecced him as Straight Cleric with a think one level of Ranger and he's been abusing people with Frightful and Vanquisher.

Read Roahin's nuker Tristian build and debate with UnEffect on GoG forum about it before jumping to conclusions. I like Harrim so I haven't played a ton with Tristian but his Companion quest abilities are pretty strong and Touch of Good is just such a QoL boost throughout the game.

Likewise Reg's Quest Cloak is a really unique effect.

 

[Yosharian]

Meh. Doesn't do it for me.

 

[Desiderius]

Meh. Doesn't do it for me.

I prefer to test things before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm not jumping to conclusions, I'm sure you're right, I just don't think the idea of making him into a reach cleric with such a low strength score. It doesn't excite me, conceptually. As for the nuker build, that one probably works just as well, but again I'm not particularly enamored with that kind of build for him.

 

[Yosharian]

I could use some guidance on how to build a Deadly Earth Kineticist correctly as I've never built one before and I'd like to find something less useless for Valerie to do.

 

[Desiderius]

I'm not jumping to conclusions, I'm sure you're right, I just don't think the idea of making him into a reach cleric with such a low strength score. It doesn't excite me, conceptually. As for the nuker build, that one probably works just as well, but again I'm not particularly enamored with that kind of build for him.

Low compared to what though? You're off on the scale. So he's -3/-3 versus Amiri. He can make that up easily with Divine Favor and later blow it out with all his other buffs. The point is that you more or less have to take a Cleric, so what do you do with that Cleric once you have him. Harrim has some unique features, but so does Tristian, and there are a ton of tools to make any Cleric a beast in melee. Enlarging effects and two-handers are so strong that the missing 6 STR just brings him back down to a solid contributor from Haplo-style busted.

The challenge with Tristian is more on the D side, which was why I had the Scion/MT to get Image/Crane Wing. But Spellstrike was underwhelming, Wing is just too many feats, and he wasn't getting Frightful until lvl 19. Careful use of reach (combined with switching to casting the first couple rounds on tough fights) should do it.

 

[Desiderius]

I could use some guidance on how to build a Deadly Earth Kineticist correctly as I've never built one before and I'd like to find something less useless for Valerie to do.

Hap and I have both done it. 16 levels of KK. Whirlwind + Bowling Infusion. Earth gives you Greater Trip, Fire to get Shatter/Magma. He might have gone Air for Celerity.

Tower shield gets a little buggy midgame tho. 90% sure that Tremorsense obviates Blindfight.

 

[Yosharian]

Why only 16 levels of KK?

Actually I looked at that Mystic Theurge concept for Tristian and although Empyreal's bloodline is trash, at least then he'd be a Sorcerer. I'm tempted just to ignore the Wisdom stat entirely and go for a standard Sorcerer, actually.

Well anyway, even if he goes MT, Empyreal isn't necessary since he has 16 Charisma. I can give him the Crown and his Charisma will only lag behind his Wisdom by 4 points or so. So then it's just a matter of deciding which bloodline has the best abilities from Sorc levels 1-6.

 

[Desiderius]

Why only 16 levels of KK?

Actually I looked at that Mystic Theurge concept for Tristian and although Empyreal's bloodline is trash, at least then he'd be a Sorcerer. I'm tempted just to ignore the Wisdom stat entirely and go for a standard Sorcerer, actually.

Well anyway, even if he goes MT, Empyreal isn't necessary since he has 16 Charisma. I can give him the Crown and his Charisma will only lag behind his Wisdom by 4 points or so. So then it's just a matter of deciding which bloodline has the best abilities from Sorc levels 1-6.

There's some ability at lvl 16 that's really important. Then you can fill out with Monk for touch AC or whatever, Archaeologist for UD, etc...

 

[Desiderius]

Why only 16 levels of KK?

Actually I looked at that Mystic Theurge concept for Tristian and although Empyreal's bloodline is trash, at least then he'd be a Sorcerer. I'm tempted just to ignore the Wisdom stat entirely and go for a standard Sorcerer, actually.

Well anyway, even if he goes MT, Empyreal isn't necessary since he has 16 Charisma. I can give him the Crown and his Charisma will only lag behind his Wisdom by 4 points or so. So then it's just a matter of deciding which bloodline has the best abilities from Sorc levels 1-6.

I ended up being annoyed by caster level when playing around with MT. For things like Spell Pen and the like. It's nice to buff from one book and attack with the other, but it's hard to really stick anything good.

 

[Yosharian]

Why only 16 levels of KK?

Actually I looked at that Mystic Theurge concept for Tristian and although Empyreal's bloodline is trash, at least then he'd be a Sorcerer. I'm tempted just to ignore the Wisdom stat entirely and go for a standard Sorcerer, actually.

Well anyway, even if he goes MT, Empyreal isn't necessary since he has 16 Charisma. I can give him the Crown and his Charisma will only lag behind his Wisdom by 4 points or so. So then it's just a matter of deciding which bloodline has the best abilities from Sorc levels 1-6.

I ended up being annoyed by caster level when playing around with MT. For things like Spell Pen and the like. It's nice to buff from one book and attack with the other, but it's hard to really stick anything good.

Ah fuck casting offensively, honestly. I'll just use him as a buffbot. Or maybe I'll try to find some spells with no saves, no spell resistance, etc.

Such as:

Cloudkill (+ Communal Delay Poison cheese)
Creeping Doom (Druid, but I could always make him a Druid too I guess)
Glitterdust/Grease/Web
Stone Call
Obsidian Flow

 

[Pink Eye]

Hey Desiderius, how would you build Valerie as a bard?

 

[Yosharian]

I decided I'm just gonna straight up give Amiri 17 Wis (and dump her Charisma, nobody likes this bitch) and make her into a Druid.

Considering her shitty point buy and the fact she has two fucking useless feats, that's a small thing, IMO.

 

[Haplo]

Meh. Doesn't do it for me.

I have my reservations also.
So I've made him use the Mythslayer X-Bow instead. Just make sure to pick Shatter Defenses, otherwise he can't hit the broad side of the barn (no, I don't buff him much, other then Frightful Aspect and Archon's Aura).

 

[Haplo]

I could use some guidance on how to build a Deadly Earth Kineticist correctly as I've never built one before and I'd like to find something less useless for Valerie to do.

Hap and I have both done it. 16 levels of KK. Whirlwind + Bowling Infusion. Earth gives you Greater Trip, Fire to get Shatter/Magma. He might have gone Air for Celerity.

Tower shield gets a little buggy midgame tho. 90% sure that Tremorsense obviates Blindfight.

I went Electric for Touch Attacks, Celerity and Magnetic Infusion (-4 AC on enemies for other party members).

Celerity, Touch + Magnetic was great for party play till mid-game. Later, after she got Whirlwind, Bowling + Composite Blasts became better... and picking Electric, I've delayed her getting Composite Blasts till 3rd element (though its probably a bug that Composite Whirlwinds cost 0 Burn).

 

[Desiderius]

I could use some guidance on how to build a Deadly Earth Kineticist correctly as I've never built one before and I'd like to find something less useless for Valerie to do.

Hap and I have both done it. 16 levels of KK. Whirlwind + Bowling Infusion. Earth gives you Greater Trip, Fire to get Shatter/Magma. He might have gone Air for Celerity.

Tower shield gets a little buggy midgame tho. 90% sure that Tremorsense obviates Blindfight.

I went Electric for Touch Attacks, Celerity and Magnetic Infusion (-4 AC on enemies for other party members).

Celerity, Touch + Magnetic was great for party play till mid-game. Later, after she got Whirlwind, Bowling + Composite Blasts became better... and picking Electric, I've delayed her getting Composite Blasts till 3rd element (though its probably a bug that Composite Whirlwinds cost 0 Burn).

I’d probably go Earth/Earth with Metal Blast if I had it to do over. The DR isn’t bad and Magnetic helps you hit with the Physical Attack.

 

[Desiderius]

Meh. Doesn't do it for me.

I have my reservations also.
So I've made him use the Mythslayer X-Bow instead. Just make sure to pick Shatter Defenses, otherwise he can't hit the broad side of the barn (no, I don't buff him much, other then Frightful Aspect and Archon's Aura).

Abilities that scale by level are the name of the game, and Divine Favor/Power does, plus it’s silly to waste Frightful in range. Just use Harrim for his racial vs Giants then let Tristian dominate in melee late. Tristian even starts with Extend metamagic so you can spam lvl one and two Divine Favors all day. Eaglesoul is Sacred so stacks. I’m the only one who’s actually tested it. Guess I’m going to have to finish that playthrough and posts screens.


Pure Sorc caster is just dumb. He’s a fine Cleric whatever you do.

 

[Desiderius]

I decided I'm just gonna straight up give Amiri 17 Wis (and dump her Charisma, nobody likes this bitch) and make her into a Druid.

Considering her shitty point buy and the fact she has two fucking useless feats, that's a small thing, IMO.

I’ve played her as DofTW unmodded and she does great. If you think that Bastard prof is a useless feat you’ve got no business writing a guide for anybody*. And of course Barb 2 for Speed, UD, and extra bite fits Wild Shape Druid like a glove.

* - Ovrinbaane spellbook itself is more than worth it.

 

[Desiderius]

Hey Desiderius, how would you build Valerie as a bard?

I started her with a lvl of SF for Crane Style then went straight Bard. You can cast with Tower Shield. I’d probably save the SF for lvls 19/20 if I had it to do over. Every new Bard level is so good up to 17. Round off all her odd stats starting with CHR.

Getting Oppressor early helps. She’s best Bard in game.

 

[polo]

I wonder why someone needs Yosharian builds when those exist: https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/page1?as=1649904300 , https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/companion_builds/page1?as=1649904300 , and https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/page1?as=1649904300 .
But, I guess, Steam means exposure, fame and probably something else.

Because InEffect doesn’t understand team dynamics. All his builds are solo builds.

Im using some of his and im 100% having that feel.

 

[Desiderius]

I wonder why someone needs Yosharian builds when those exist: https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/page1?as=1649904300 , https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/companion_builds/page1?as=1649904300 , and https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/page1?as=1649904300 .
But, I guess, Steam means exposure, fame and probably something else.

Because InEffect doesn’t understand team dynamics. All his builds are solo builds.

Im using some of his and im 100% having that feel.

He’s playing Unfair+ because he doesn’t buff or debuff. That’s why he shits on everyone else’s builds. Most wouldn’t in fact work in his field of suck.

 

[Sykar]

Hey Desiderius, how would you build Valerie as a bard?

I started her with a lvl of SF for Crane Style then went straight Bard. You can cast with Tower Shield. I’d probably save the SF for lvls 19/20 if I had it to do over. Every new Bard level is so good up to 17. Round off all her odd stats starting with CHR.

Getting Oppressor early helps. She’s best Bard in game.

Or install Call of the Wild mod:


Mod also changes stats of some npcs (optional)

• Valerie class was changed to Vindictive Bastard and stats to 18/10/16/8/10/15
• Harrim class was changed to Warpriest and stats to 16/10/18/10/17/6
• Amiri archetype was changed to Invulnerable Rager and her stats to 19/14/16/10/12/8
• Ekun to 14/18/10/10/14/8
• Tristian to 10/14/12/10/19/14 and replaces his primary domain to fire
• Linzi to 8/18/14/14/10/16
• Octavia to 10/16/10/18/10/14
• Regongar to 19/12/12/10/8/16
• Nok-Nok to 8/22/14/12/10/8

Really enjoy them like this, also feels more fitting overall. Though Linzi is more suitable to bow bard now.

 

[Desiderius]

Hey Desiderius, how would you build Valerie as a bard?

I started her with a lvl of SF for Crane Style then went straight Bard. You can cast with Tower Shield. I’d probably save the SF for lvls 19/20 if I had it to do over. Every new Bard level is so good up to 17. Round off all her odd stats starting with CHR.

Getting Oppressor early helps. She’s best Bard in game.

Or install Call of the Wild mod:


Mod also changes stats of some npcs (optional)

• Valerie class was changed to Vindictive Bastard and stats to 18/10/16/8/10/15
• Harrim class was changed to Warpriest and stats to 16/10/18/10/17/6
• Amiri archetype was changed to Invulnerable Rager and her stats to 19/14/16/10/12/8
• Ekun to 14/18/10/10/14/8
• Tristian to 10/14/12/10/19/14 and replaces his primary domain to fire
• Linzi to 8/18/14/14/10/16
• Octavia to 10/16/10/18/10/14
• Regongar to 19/12/12/10/8/16
• Nok-Nok to 8/22/14/12/10/8

Really enjoy them like this, also feels more fitting overall. Though Linzi is more suitable to bow bard now.

By midgame at the latest stats just don’t matter that much. The extra damage from six STR is less than the expected damage from a single sneak (even with multipliers is just not that much). When you’re doing 50 AB vs 50 AC a point here or there just isn’t that big of a deal, and you can get ABs up in the 60s easily if you need to.

Only place it really matters is trying to beat saves and stock stats are fine there.

 

[Sykar]

It helps early game, and gives the game more variety. Vindictive Bastard is also more fun than straight Tower Shield specialist and Warpriest is also more interesting than straight cleric with melee combat stats/feats.