Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Shadenuat]

Monk AC cap to level would mean pure monks are ded. At least till midlevel.

 

[John Keel]

Monk AC cap to level would mean pure monks are ded. At least till midlevel.

AC cap of STATS to AC, not whole AC

Monk being a 1 dip no brainer for so many builds is retarded AF

Is 1 Feat worth 4 stats? For some builds, maybe...

 

[gestalt11]

A properly built Mystic Theurge is very strong, you can get a ton of extra spells and diversity and only lose a few high level spells. I can't remember the details of a solo build i had specced out and played a bit but I think was something like Sylvan Sorc/feyspekaer druid

I tried that char.
I mean, if you just want to cast Sirocco and have a pet, single class Druid does it with more DC and earlier. And then how many degenerate siroccos you really need? Considering Druid also has stuff like Obsidian flow etc.

You are skipping over a ton of spells and buffs on the Sorc side of things such as being able to polymorph your pet into a dragon. Also the fact that having useful spell like sirrocco or baleful polymorph on sorc side lets you prepare other useful things on the druid side.

The theurge one is superior. You get better buffs for your pet, radically better personal buffs and twice the nukes/cc

It might be debated about his usefulness at lvl 20 compared to straight druid or pet sorcerer. But during the game all it is superior at is being late in caster level and useful spells. Good luck passing SR checks and having good spells when you can most use them.. This build can only be useful in solo play and if you use XP sharing off so your solo character overlevels all content. And I played one such druid with a pet. In the end I buffed my pet and let him murder everything and just healed him. Got boring fast as my character was just a buff bot for a fucking animal (btw pets are broken in this game, way more powerful than they should be and any build depending on them is as broken as Deadly Earth builds and the guy boasting about using them should be taken behind the shed and shot).

Wait so highly buffed pet is stupidly broken OP and this build is really good at buffing the pet and doing tons of stuff that don't require DC rolls and is still in the top 90% of DCs anyway and is entirely self-sufficient. Yet it sucks? I agree the build is better solo, that is why I did it solo. Everyone saying Mystic Theurge sucks is criticizing its intentionally designed-in weak part and then ignoring everything else. There are a number of cases where the versatility pays off if you stat focus to make up for the deficiency, obviously this is highly dependent on the make up of your party. Its not like your MT is likely to be your only caster. If you try to leverage the versatility so it IS your only caster then you really do feel the weak part.

The fact is you could ignore basically all the hard DC based spells and the build would still make a great tank that had a ton of utility AND can be your max-level diplomat/talker. But yes, as with many min/max builds, jumping the level curve via solo or duo play is advantageous.

Sure if you want Tristian to get Heal ASAP obviously don't go MT, this isn't fucking rocket science. But if your main is a class than can do that anyway and you want Tristian then making him the right kind of MT can be quite a decent choice.

This entire argument seems really silly, you are trying to min/max then ignoring one of the most powerful aspects of a build and then recriminating based on that powerful aspect. Pick one argument and stick with it. You are trying to have it both ways. Either be a min/maxer and stop whining about what is OP and arbitrarily disqualifying valid but cheap builds or don't. But this mish-mash is crap.

 

[John Keel]

For real Desiderius
I'm asking, is it clearcut that 1 feat is better than 4 stats?

 

[Desiderius]

Monk AC cap to level would mean pure monks are ded. At least till midlevel.

AC cap of STATS to AC, not whole AC

Monk being a 1 dip no brainer for so many classes is retarded AF

Is 1 Feat worth 4 stats? For some builds, maybe...

Aasimar gets +2 extra on one stat, a once per rest spell, and a halo vs Human, who gets extra feat + skill pt per lvl.

Elves get effective feat (Spell Pen) as casters. Dwarves get big racial bonus v Giants an +2/+4 saves.

Aasimars are bad.

 

[John Keel]

Aasimars is +2 for 2 stats

 

[Desiderius]

For real Desiderius
I'm asking, is it clearcut that 1 feat is better than 4 stats?

What four stats? Everybody gets at least two. Yes, one feat is better than even four. Stats are cheap.

 

[John Keel]

Once again, depends on the build, some are starved, some ain't

 

[Desiderius]

Aasimars is +2 for 2 stats

Obv. And humans get +2 for one.

Wow, your two STR gives you +1 to hit. Now you’re +45 AB vs 41 AC instead of +44.

 

[Desiderius]

Once again, depends on the build, some are starved, some ain't

Nobody is starved for +2 (I.e. +1).

 

[John Keel]

Not saying it's gamebreaking, and I'm really asking about the math behind, that's all

Starved for feats, not stats

 

[Desiderius]

Not saying it's gamebreaking, and I'm really asking about the math behind, that's all

Starved for feats, not stats

Lol. Everybody is starved for feats. I built that Fighter for that kid and was still wanting more.

Maybe Kin isn’t but that because it was unevenly implemented.

 

[Shadenuat]

+3 stackable AC where most have to pick +1 AC if they wear shield or armor is worse

 

[John Keel]

Not really, past some lvl for some builds feats are w/e, overkill

 

[John Keel]

Isnt the whole feat vs stats can be reduced to:

Free feat has more impact early game
Stats mid-late

?

Disclaimer: I only play BTSL, so I probably have a very different POV than you guys

 

[Desiderius]

Isnt the whole feat vs stats can be reduced to:

Free feat has more impact early game
Stats mid-late

?

Disclaimer: I only play BTSL, so I probably have a very different POV than you guys

No.

Here's that Fighter:

Tell me what Feat is worse than 2 STR. Specializations are a wash, but the kid wanted them. Seize is debatable (Fighter's Tactics treats it like everyone has it). Exotic Fauchard would have been better than Glaive, and that's another feat.

I built it Aasimar thinking same thing you were then found myself still wanting feats at end.

 

[John Keel]

You use the fighter exemple, that's disingenuous

 

[Haplo]

Guess that's alright then, still, not sure implementing UMD per PNP is worth it atm without adding tons of restricted items

Another thing to consider is that most items has double class + alignment restrictions (monk robes), and this puts DC late 20s and 30s for such items, afair from NWN. This limits applications even more when implemented as per PnP.

Yeah but atm in the game there's what, 10~ items with restriction? A few robes, the pal armor, a chaotic ring, a pal cloak ....
Even tho for some the UMD check would be very high, adding new restricted items would not be limited to UMD users.... just niche builds , such as a mace of righteous bitch slappin Loyal good only

There's a ring for each alignment (law, neutral, chaotic).

And a cloak for good/evil.

 

[Desiderius]

You use the fighter exemple, that's disingenuous

Not at all. I picked the class with the most feats (i.e. least feat starved).

 

[John Keel]

That's some weirdass logic to deduce having access to more feats imply least reliant on feats ...

Not gonna continue this debate, sorry, gonna end up nowhere, no disrespect I like you

 

[Desiderius]

That's some weirdass logic to deduce having access to more feats imply least reliant on feats ...

Not gonna continue this debate, sorry, gonna end up nowhere, no disrespect I like you

Seriously, you said some classes aren't starved so I went to the class that was least starved. Perfectly straightforward.

What class do you think needs +2 of a stat more than another feat (+20 skill pts)?

 

[John Keel]

Fighter (or martial classes as a rule) are the MOST feat starved/hungry, that's the goddamn reason why they get more feats.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Shit, I accidentally the bear treeant. I feel gypped out of a good fight due to a lucky crit.

 

[Desiderius]

Fighter (or martial classes as a rule) are the MOST feat starved/hungry, that's the goddamn reason why they get more feats.

Starved = lacking. Fighters have the most, not the least. They are the least lacking, so least starved.

Anyway, so we’re agreed that Human is better for Fighter. What class do you want Aasimar?

 

[Haplo]

Well, if Weapon Focus for 1 AB is sometimes worth a feat (sometimes disregarding its requirement as prerequisite for other feats), then +2 Str, which is +1 AB and +1-2 damage, is definately worth it, no?