Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Pink Eye]

It blows my mind that you enjoy Dark Souls gameplay, while at the same you hate the Kingmaker's fights that throw surprises at you. This element is exactly the same element in both games, and obviously it is even more developed in Dark Souls. However, it annoys you here, and you love it in Dark Souls. Incomprehensible.

Well, one of the main differences (besides the ton of useless overhead in Shitmaker), in Dark Souls you generally have all the tools with you, and they are pretty obvious, it's just a matter of putting them together in various ways. In Shitmaker, it's completely random, oh maybe for this random enemy you suddenly need this party member that you haven't used in 20 years, or some spell that you never grabbed, or some scroll or potion. Or maybe you didn't realize this quest had a timer, and now your kingdom is fucked. It's way more annoying.

I did get frustrated with some enemies in Dark Souls, but overall, it's a waaaay better game.

>I did get frustrated with some enemies in Dark Souls, but overall, it's a waaaay better game.
This is no longer quality shit, this is just shit.

 

[Jinn]

How can Dark Souls and Pathfinder: Kingmaker even be compared? Makes very little sense. The games play completely differently in almost every way.

 

[Trashos]

How can Dark Souls and Pathfinder: Kingmaker even be compared? Makes very little sense. The games play completely differently in almost every way.

Porky has complained about Kingmaker fights that throw surprises at you. I argue that this is exactly the same gameplay element as learning the fighting patterns in Dark Souls (ie, you die until you see how the enemy fights). Of course, in Dark Souls this element is much more developed, as it is the core gameplay. In Kingmaker, it is just there for fun and additional challenge. But it is still the same gameplay element.

 

[Jinn]

Porky has complained about Kingmaker fights that throw surprises at you. I argue that this is exactly the same gameplay element as learning the fighting patterns in Dark Souls (ie, you die until you see how the enemy fights). Of course, in Dark Souls this element is much more developed, as it is the core gameplay. In Kingmaker, it is just there for fun and additional challenge. But it is still the same gameplay element.

No, I get your point. I don't think you brought up Dark Souls in the first place, did you? Unless it was in a post I missed.

I don't get comparing the two in such a way that "one is a better difficult game than the other." Two completely different flavors of challenge.

 

[Pink Eye]

How can Dark Souls and Pathfinder: Kingmaker even be compared? Makes very little sense. The games play completely differently in almost every way.

I have no idea. Porky brought it up. It'd be more apt to compare this game to the cluster fuck that is BG 2. No offense Trashos, but high level dnd gameplay is nauseating. Baldur's Gate 1 will and always be my top game of all time, rivaled only by Pathfinder, of course. Low level dnd gameplay is just so much more satisfying to play.

 

[Desiderius]

I’m not trying to save him from your wrath, I’m trying to save you from a callow conception of good and evil.

Callow? Dante places traitors at the very depth of the ninth circle of hell. I happen to agree with Dante on this one.

If he were a traitor you’d be dead.

Pride goeth before a fall.

 

[Trashos]

Jinn, Porky mentioned it, and I took him up on it.

Pink Eye, your disrespect towards greatness has been noted. Do not worry, as Desiderius will tell you, I am extremely merciful.

 

[Desiderius]

How can Dark Souls and Pathfinder: Kingmaker even be compared? Makes very little sense. The games play completely differently in almost every way.

I have no idea. Porky brought it up. It'd be more apt to compare this game to the cluster fuck that is BG 2. No offense Trashos, but high level dnd gameplay is nauseating. Baldur's Gate 1 will and always be my top game of all time, rivaled only by Pathfinder, of course. Low level dnd gameplay is just so much more satisfying to play.

It is in fact very difficult to make work but I’ve got to say P:K gets there. When you need every last one of that +52 attack bonus to get ‘er done that’s some inspired design.

Thanks Trash for talking me into sticking it out to Hate House. Really enjoying it.

 

[Jinn]

So wait, I'm confused why you rated my post "disagree" Desiderius

You think Kingmaker and Dark Souls play similarly?

 

[Yosharian]

How can Dark Souls and Pathfinder: Kingmaker even be compared? Makes very little sense. The games play completely differently in almost every way.

I have no idea. Porky brought it up. It'd be more apt to compare this game to the cluster fuck that is BG 2. No offense Trashos, but high level dnd gameplay is nauseating. Baldur's Gate 1 will and always be my top game of all time, rivaled only by Pathfinder, of course. Low level dnd gameplay is just so much more satisfying to play.

How dare you. High-level BG2 is so much fun.

 

[Desiderius]

So wait, I'm confused why you rated my post "disagree" Desiderius

You think Kingmaker and Dark Souls play similarly?

Yeah, they're both games you have to play to learn. Empiricism is fun. Trivial isn't.

You're being (way) too literal.

P:K is also Rogue-like in that each playthrough benefits from previous ones and it's not remotely realistic to expect to cover everything in one go.

 

[Jinn]

Yeah, they're both games you have to play to learn. Empiricism is fun.

You're being (way) too literal.

I think if you didn't have Porky on ignore and knew what I was actually responding to, you might not have reacted to my post in such a way. But alright.

 

[Pink Eye]

How can Dark Souls and Pathfinder: Kingmaker even be compared? Makes very little sense. The games play completely differently in almost every way.

I have no idea. Porky brought it up. It'd be more apt to compare this game to the cluster fuck that is BG 2. No offense Trashos, but high level dnd gameplay is nauseating. Baldur's Gate 1 will and always be my top game of all time, rivaled only by Pathfinder, of course. Low level dnd gameplay is just so much more satisfying to play.

How dare you. High-level BG2 is so much fun.

Quick! Roll a natural 20 or be forever cursed by my spells! At least in Pathfinder I can bypass that nonsense by forcing a choke point, then having my guys perform a preemptive charge.

 

[Desiderius]

I think if you didn't have Porky on ignore and knew what I was actually responding to, you might not have reacted to my post in such a way. But alright.

Nope. I'm good. Trash already explained it and it went right over your head. Evidently still is if you're not seeing the similarity. If anything P:K is too easy for the comparison to fully hold*, which is funny given Porky's struggles.

* - it can of course be carefully scouted, but I think the natural way is to empirically shoot your shot then reload/restart as necessary, as it is with Dark Souls as I understand it (haven't played nearly as much Dark Souls as P:K, but people play "hard" games because they enjoy the sense of accomplishment, as in P:K). As you get better, you get that sense of accomplishment on another level by minimizing restarts, but you're still often learning from mistakes.

 

[Desiderius]

Quick! Roll a natural 20 or be forever cursed by my spells! At least in Pathfinder I can bypass that nonsense by forcing a choke point, then having my guys perform a preemptive charge.

Or improving your saves or finding the spells/items that give you immunities. Been I long time since I need a ten, let alone a 20. I don't recall being in that situation in BG either. Mark of a good game that it can be brute forced as necessary or mastered.

 

[Jinn]

Nope. I'm good. Trash already explained it and it went right over your head. Evidently still is if you're not seeing the similarity.

No, I completely understand his point that surprising situations constitute a large part of the difficulty in both games.

As someone who has played both extensively, I don't think that's enough to compare the games with a statement like "I did get frustrated with some enemies in Dark Souls, but overall, it's a waaaay better game." The way encounters are handled between the two are way too different, despite having a common element in surprising the player with difficulty. That's mainly what I meant when I said they can't really be compared. If a game is any good, of course you have to learn it to play it. But the amount of variables at the player's disposal, the style of combat (single-character action RPG vs. party-based tactical), the way equipment is handled, the way spellcasting is handled, the way character progression is handled, the way exploration is handled. It's all different enough that I feel that even comparing difficulty between the two is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Yosharian]

How can Dark Souls and Pathfinder: Kingmaker even be compared? Makes very little sense. The games play completely differently in almost every way.

I have no idea. Porky brought it up. It'd be more apt to compare this game to the cluster fuck that is BG 2. No offense Trashos, but high level dnd gameplay is nauseating. Baldur's Gate 1 will and always be my top game of all time, rivaled only by Pathfinder, of course. Low level dnd gameplay is just so much more satisfying to play.

How dare you. High-level BG2 is so much fun.

Quick! Roll a natural 20 or be forever cursed by my spells! At least in Pathfinder I can bypass that nonsense by forcing a choke point, then having my guys perform a preemptive charge.

Alternatively I cast Time Stop and fuck your shit up before you even get to cast a spell

 

[Pink Eye]

How can Dark Souls and Pathfinder: Kingmaker even be compared? Makes very little sense. The games play completely differently in almost every way.

I have no idea. Porky brought it up. It'd be more apt to compare this game to the cluster fuck that is BG 2. No offense Trashos, but high level dnd gameplay is nauseating. Baldur's Gate 1 will and always be my top game of all time, rivaled only by Pathfinder, of course. Low level dnd gameplay is just so much more satisfying to play.

How dare you. High-level BG2 is so much fun.

Quick! Roll a natural 20 or be forever cursed by my spells! At least in Pathfinder I can bypass that nonsense by forcing a choke point, then having my guys perform a preemptive charge.

Alternatively I cast Time Stop and fuck your shit up before you even get to cast a spell

Which proves my point. In BG 1 I didn't have to deal with none of that high level nonsense.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The level of retardation in this thread is hilarious. "ooohh i needed every last one of that +52 to attack to win the fight", but the munchkin doesn't even understand that he is a munchkin. That most normal people don't enjoy having to optimize their build to ridiculous levels to just get through the game at not even the hardest level.

 

[Silly Germans]

The game is not that hard. You can beat it on normal even with the preset builds on your companions. I did next to no optimization and even missed some of the cookie cutter spells, like delay poison(<- the most misleading name of a fucking spell) and
stinking could and finished it.
I also have a hard time understanding why people think Dark Soul like games are innovative in any way. All they do is replace good old fashioned quick save/quick load on a death with fucking retarded mechanics that prolong the game unnecessarily.
The difficulty is also nothing new, most older console game (NES/SNES) work by the same principle, You learn the game and beat the game.

 

[Pink Eye]

God dammit Yosh.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm not a huge fan of the way Dark Souls handles saves, but I don't think you're being very charitable there. The system it uses adds a ton of tension to the game which it wouldn't have if it used traditional save/load.

 

[Doma]

Having not played since release, has this been made easier? I remember wiping on the first 3 guys in the library the first time. Now I one-shot all of them with no damage taken? On the same difficulty as well.

Maybe I need to crank it all the way up?

 

[Efe]

iirc they disabled or toned down difficulty scaling in tutorial.
also, maybe lucky dice rolls?

 

[Pink Eye]

Having not played since release, has this been made easier? I remember wiping on the first 3 guys in the library the first time. Now I one-shot all of them with no damage taken? On the same difficulty as well.

Maybe I need to crank it all the way up?

First encounters in the prologue area are scripted for you to win. Spell casters would wipe on the very first encounter, so devs changed it.