Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[CaesarCzech]

so you are angry that an event thats supposed to destabilize the land.. destabilizes the land.
it wouldnt be anything major if you could just click twice to get someone else seated.

We're so used to developers holding our hands that it's become an expectation. C&C almost doesn't even exist. I see a lot of C but no &C in most of the games that advertise it. I don't consider a different power point presentation after you fight the last boss to be consequences. These consequences need to have actual in-game changes that hurt us or benefit us because of a choice we made. Pathfinder Kingmaker was one of the only recent games that actually did it and all these people that come out and say they love character choice complained because what they actually wanted was to choose one out of three factions that pretty much all function the same then read about how all their choices will totally matter in 30 years after the PC retires in a hut with one out of three romance options that all pretty much function the same.

I dont mind choices and consequences, i mind when it literally fucks over part of game, Just let me hire inferior version so i actually have someone to put in that slot if im not evil side with Rostov not Brevoy and Dont just forgive and forget traitor. If i play neutral im basically fucked. Thank god they allowed mercs to function as councilors and added teleportation circles, those were some fucked omisions.

 

[Ontopoly]

Sounds like you mind Choices and Consequences. I'm fine with them letting you add mercs and advisors though.

 

[Efe]

only clunky part i know of is drawing the kinetic blade takes the whole first combat turn and character doesnt respond to attack commands and just walks to last targeted position.
like you said if you start combat with charge this problem disappears and blade is drawn before initiative (which should be default imo)

 

[Pink Eye]

I know for ranged Kineticists you can cancel their gather power mid animation. For example, you wait a few seconds, then force them to move. They will then do their blasts without sitting in place doing the whole gather power animation. Does that work with Kinectic blade?

 

[Dr Skeleton]

so you are angry that an event thats supposed to destabilize the land.. destabilizes the land.
it wouldnt be anything major if you could just click twice to get someone else seated.

No, I'm telling you it's not a masterful bout of Owlcat writing to force a player into a difficult choice, it's an unintentional side effect of poor design for available NPCs for one (and only this one) barony position. I don't mind the game throwing a crisis at me, but I'm not going to pretend it was planned this way to give more weight to the player's decision about Tristan, because it wasn't.

don't know you might need another councilor much later.

Yes, that's the seamless part. Instead of rewarding/requiring gaming the system, the consequences flow naturally from your decisions.

Process of elimination would lead anyone with half the sophistication you believe yourself to possess to land on Mervey as the only sensible choice. On the other hand, if you're the kind of person who takes in wards out of the kindness of your heart you're also the kind who should have no problem keeping Tristian, on a short leash as necessary.

Likewise losing him for a week, or at that point not having a Councilor at all, doesn't have near the devastating effect you've convinced yourself it does. You're contributing to the faceroll we all hate.

The choice of envoy is presented when the player doesn't know how the barony minigame works, or that there are even barony advisors. It's not the "only sensible choice" when you don't even know what you're choosing for, other than that you're getting an envoy. And there's absolutely no reason 3 or more other NPCs you meet along the way can't do the councilor's job, so it's C&C, yeah, but it's mired in nonsensical arbitrary restrictions and made when you don't really know what you're choosing or that you're choosing between advisors for different government position and not just political sides. Not the end of the world, especially on a second playthrough, but there's no way I'll believe this was intentional and not Owlcat accidentally screwing up this one specific advisor slot.

Aside from obvious ones (priests can be assigned to religion, Linzi and Storyteller can be assigned to culture etc), NPCs and their possible assignments are all over the place. Bartholomew is a researcher wizard living in the woods, but he can't be the magic advisor, instead he can be a treasurer (I guess he sells scrolls and wands, gotta count for something) or a diplomat. Varn is a rogue but he can't be the Minister. Regongar can be either a general or a warden, but Kassil can only be a general. Is this also great writing?

 

[Efe]

im not sure.. wouldnt you ideally not use gather power and movement since full attack is better in total?

 

[Pink Eye]

im not sure.. wouldnt you ideally not use gather power and movement since full attack is better in total?

Burn. You need to gather power to control burn.

 

[Haplo]

only a single Standard Action after movement anyway.

isnt that same in real time?

Desiderius are you sure whirlwind aoe increases with weapon reach?

It kinda is. BUT its somehow much less painful in real time. You attack once.. a few seconds pass, and you full attack again. Its different in turn based (I mean technically "same", but a lot more will happen in-between).

The real problem with real time is that if you have a competent party, chances are when the KK reaches an optimal position to whirl... half enemies around him will be dead before he executes it...

And no, my testing led to the conclusion that character size has no impact on Blade Whirlwind reach.
That said, I think there was some mod (Call of the Wild?) that enabled Kinetic Whip... that could be fun...

 

[Desiderius]

The choice of envoy is presented when the player doesn't know how the barony minigame works

Yes, exactly. You're stuck trying to game the system instead of playing the fucking game. If you read what each envoy says, the kind of person who would let Tristian go is exactly the kind who would choose Mervey, so you're covered. You're overthinking things and digging your hole continually deeper, all based on the flawed premise that you deserve ten advisors regardless of how badly you fuck up your game and that you can't survive without them. Neither are true.

If i play neutral im basically fucked.

No you're not. Mervey is obviously the neutral choice and even if you fuck up that choice then insist on witlessly cutting loose your Neutral Good companion losing one advisor slot is far from game over.

 

[Efe]

basic element doesnt cost any burn.
you arent metamagicking or using composite blasts but compensating for their lack with iterative attacks of base element.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Yes, that's the seamless part. Instead of rewarding/requiring gaming the system, the consequences flow naturally from your decisions.

Process of elimination would lead anyone with half the sophistication you believe yourself to possess to land on Mervey as the only sensible choice. On the other hand, if you're the kind of person who takes in wards out of the kindness of your heart you're also the kind who should have no problem keeping Tristian, on a short leash as necessary.

Likewise losing him for a week, or at that point not having a Councilor at all, doesn't have near the devastating effect you've convinced yourself it does. You're contributing to the faceroll we all hate.

Come on man, Pathfinder was rushed out the door completely unfinished, even the most ardent fans admit that. You can't sit there and actually believe these are all the galaxy-brain decisions of game design masters and not just some random crap thrown together by overworked bleary-eyed semi-amateurs after the nth consecutive week of 80 hour crunch.

And yes, losing an adviser slot can fuck your game, as you may miss out on all future events and tank your community score, potentially leading to unavoidable game over. Mercs fix this post release, but it's still shitty design. I would not expect to lose a game of Civ or HoMM or XCOM or any other strategy game because I let one random NPC bite it. It would be monumentally stupid if that happened. That's not a choice with consequences, it's a lol so randum exploding cigar practical joke.

 

[Dr Skeleton]

The choice of envoy is presented when the player doesn't know how the barony minigame works

Yes, exactly. You're stuck trying to game the system instead of playing the fucking game. If you read what each envoy says, the kind of person who would let Tristian go is exactly the kind who would choose Mervey, so you're covered. You're overthinking things and digging your hole continually deeper, all based on the flawed premise that you deserve ten advisors regardless of how badly you fuck up your game and that you can't survive without them. Neither are true.

Yeah, I'm overthinking, but it was totally intentional that a player who makes an uniformed choice of 1/3 envoys without knowing anything about advisors or the councilor position, will then 50 hours later make a choice to forgive Tristan, so they deliberately didn't give you more potential councilors, because OBVIOUSLY a player who doesn't choose Shandra MUST choose to take Tristan back, so let's not even give them a choice. Now that's great writing . You're like a guy who sees a garbage can in a museum, then gets into an argument that it's a piece of art when people point out you've been looking at trash for 15 minutes.

all based on the flawed premise that you deserve ten advisors regardless of how badly you fuck up your game and that you can't survive without them.

The councilor position isn't for someone who's the last living expert on ancient fey, it's for a someone to deal with mundane social problems of peasants and merchants. There should be dozens of candidates from Brevoy and Stolen Lands sending the player their CVs every month. Instead we get one that's easy to miss and pushes you away from your original benefactors, one who's a priestess of an evil goddess that hates civilization and one who's pretty good, but also indirectly murdered hundreds of your citizens. That's not "fucking up your game", that's shitty design.

 

[fantadomat]

I have 40 in int, wis and cha. Why do i need some fag councilor anyway?

Because you can't do Kage Bunshin no Jutsu fag lol!

 

[fantadomat]

Apart from the furry depravities,

That is easily rectified,but a fireball or two.

I аlready have an appropriate portrait in mind.

Me too...

Spoiler

 

[Gyor]

The choice of envoy is presented when the player doesn't know how the barony minigame works

Yes, exactly. You're stuck trying to game the system instead of playing the fucking game. If you read what each envoy says, the kind of person who would let Tristian go is exactly the kind who would choose Mervey, so you're covered. You're overthinking things and digging your hole continually deeper, all based on the flawed premise that you deserve ten advisors regardless of how badly you fuck up your game and that you can't survive without them. Neither are true.

Yeah, I'm overthinking, but it was totally intentional that a player who makes an uniformed choice of 1/3 envoys without knowing anything about advisors or the councilor position, will then 50 hours later make a choice to forgive Tristan, so they deliberately didn't give you more potential councilors, because OBVIOUSLY a player who doesn't choose Shandra MUST choose to take Tristan back, so let's not even give them a choice. Now that's great writing . You're like a guy who sees a garbage can in a museum, then gets into an argument that it's a piece of art when people point out you've been looking at trash for 15 minutes.

all based on the flawed premise that you deserve ten advisors regardless of how badly you fuck up your game and that you can't survive without them.

The councilor position isn't for someone who's the last living expert on ancient fey, it's for a someone to deal with mundane social problems of peasants and merchants. There should be dozens of candidates from Brevoy and Stolen Lands sending the player their CVs every month. Instead we get one that's easy to miss and pushes you away from your original benefactors, one who's a priestess of an evil goddess that hates civilization and one who's pretty good, but also indirectly murdered hundreds of your citizens. That's not "fucking up your game", that's shitty design.

You can fill the position with a Mercanary.

 

[CaesarCzech]

Apart from the furry depravities,

That is easily rectified,but a fireball or two.

I аlready have an appropriate portrait in mind.

Me too...

Spoiler

DONT KNOW, HE LOOKS KINDA MONKY

 

[CaesarCzech]

The choice of envoy is presented when the player doesn't know how the barony minigame works

Yes, exactly. You're stuck trying to game the system instead of playing the fucking game. If you read what each envoy says, the kind of person who would let Tristian go is exactly the kind who would choose Mervey, so you're covered. You're overthinking things and digging your hole continually deeper, all based on the flawed premise that you deserve ten advisors regardless of how badly you fuck up your game and that you can't survive without them. Neither are true.

Yeah, I'm overthinking, but it was totally intentional that a player who makes an uniformed choice of 1/3 envoys without knowing anything about advisors or the councilor position, will then 50 hours later make a choice to forgive Tristan, so they deliberately didn't give you more potential councilors, because OBVIOUSLY a player who doesn't choose Shandra MUST choose to take Tristan back, so let's not even give them a choice. Now that's great writing . You're like a guy who sees a garbage can in a museum, then gets into an argument that it's a piece of art when people point out you've been looking at trash for 15 minutes.

all based on the flawed premise that you deserve ten advisors regardless of how badly you fuck up your game and that you can't survive without them.

The councilor position isn't for someone who's the last living expert on ancient fey, it's for a someone to deal with mundane social problems of peasants and merchants. There should be dozens of candidates from Brevoy and Stolen Lands sending the player their CVs every month. Instead we get one that's easy to miss and pushes you away from your original benefactors, one who's a priestess of an evil goddess that hates civilization and one who's pretty good, but also indirectly murdered hundreds of your citizens. That's not "fucking up your game", that's shitty design.

You can fill the position with a Mercanary.

They patched that in, just like with teleport circles for travel, should have been in game from start.

 

[Yosharian]

The choice of envoy is presented when the player doesn't know how the barony minigame works

Yes, exactly. You're stuck trying to game the system instead of playing the fucking game. If you read what each envoy says, the kind of person who would let Tristian go is exactly the kind who would choose Mervey, so you're covered. You're overthinking things and digging your hole continually deeper, all based on the flawed premise that you deserve ten advisors regardless of how badly you fuck up your game and that you can't survive without them. Neither are true.

Yeah, I'm overthinking, but it was totally intentional that a player who makes an uniformed choice of 1/3 envoys without knowing anything about advisors or the councilor position, will then 50 hours later make a choice to forgive Tristan, so they deliberately didn't give you more potential councilors, because OBVIOUSLY a player who doesn't choose Shandra MUST choose to take Tristan back, so let's not even give them a choice. Now that's great writing . You're like a guy who sees a garbage can in a museum, then gets into an argument that it's a piece of art when people point out you've been looking at trash for 15 minutes.

all based on the flawed premise that you deserve ten advisors regardless of how badly you fuck up your game and that you can't survive without them.

The councilor position isn't for someone who's the last living expert on ancient fey, it's for a someone to deal with mundane social problems of peasants and merchants. There should be dozens of candidates from Brevoy and Stolen Lands sending the player their CVs every month. Instead we get one that's easy to miss and pushes you away from your original benefactors, one who's a priestess of an evil goddess that hates civilization and one who's pretty good, but also indirectly murdered hundreds of your citizens. That's not "fucking up your game", that's shitty design.

You can fill the position with a Mercanary.

Yeah and they are much, much weaker in the role

 

[Dr Skeleton]

You can fill the position with a Mercanary.

That was added in a very late patch.

 

[Nerevar]

I'm stuck without a counselor at the moment. Just finished up Vordekai's tomb and now have to pick between going for Tristian or Amari first.

Really is there any point to helping the "swordlords" they seem like a complete paradoxical the meritocracy based swordsman society is pretty cool but it doesn't make any sense if you think about it. Jamandi is a bit of an idiot why is she even fighting the barbarians anyway? Also she never helped me when my kingdom needed it.

Anyway on my first playthrough I went for Tristian first and all the swordlords got their poo pushed in. Is there any benefit of going to help Jamandi? Can I kill her and take her stuff?

Otherwise I might just go for Tristian again.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm stuck without a counselor at the moment. Just finished up Vordekai's tomb and now have to pick between going for Tristian or Amari first.

Really is there any point to helping the "swordlords" they seem like a complete paradoxical the meritocracy based swordsman society is pretty cool but it doesn't make any sense if you think about it. Jamandi is a bit of an idiot why is she even fighting the barbarians anyway? Also she never helped me when my kingdom needed it.

Anyway on my first playthrough I went for Tristian first and all the swordlords got their poo pushed in. Is there any benefit of going to help Jamandi? Can I kill her and take her stuff?

Otherwise I might just go for Tristian again.

Depends if you care about Tristan I suppose. He gives you a very cool item if you complete his quest, no idea if that's before or after this event

 

[Nerevar]

Don't care so much about him but I'd like to get this very cool item. Also Shandra told me to go for him first so I guess I should.

Also imagine studying swordplay your entire life and even calling yourself a "swordlord" and then a group of half naked dudes wearing fur kill you with a piece of wood because they can get really angry.

 

[Desiderius]

Don't care so much about him but I'd like to get this very cool item. Also Shandra told me to go for him first so I guess I should.

Also imagine studying swordplay your entire life and even calling yourself a "swordlord" and then a group of half naked dudes wearing fur kill you with a piece of wood because they can get really angry.

You can do Amiri first, then Tristian in less than a week. I've never tried it any other way but I've heard it's suboptimal.

Amiri has some interesting, nonobvious options. Tristian turns into a (blind, but that's manageable) beast when you finish his quest.

 

[ga♥]

Depends if you care about Tristan I suppose. He gives you a very cool item if you complete his quest, no idea if that's before or after this event

What?

 

[Yosharian]

Depends if you care about Tristan I suppose. He gives you a very cool item if you complete his quest, no idea if that's before or after this event

What?

Tristian's Ring (+4 Deflection bonus to AC, permanent Death Ward)

Spoiler

Tell Tristian to follow his heart when he asks for advice, then complete his quest (CH6)

That's all the info I have on it, given that it's chapter 6 I suspect it is actually after the event where he can be killed

It's also possible that the ring is only available if you're romancing him but I'm not sure, it's hard to get info on this game sometimes