Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

I don't. You're running a barony with multiple cities and a backing of another state, but it's impossible to assign a person to a key government role if you don't take a traitor back? You can also assign some random evil priestess to the post, but nope, nobody else, none of the companions or other NPCs can do the job, you can't get a councilor from Brevoy. If you execute a guy, that advisors post will be vacant for the entire existence of the kingdom and nobody will ever mention it. C&C are good when they make sense, this makes no fucking sense at all..

No you dipshit, you've just demonstrated to all the world that you're a merciless faggot who can't go a week without a Councilor to hold your pathetic hand. Why would anyone want to be your Councilor? The hard ass envoy is Mervey, so you should have had her if you weren't down with Tsanna.

She's not random, her quest is one of the most well-developed in the game. It's akin to Ultima V in how you act out your virtues, except this time it's ingame.

 

[Dr Skeleton]

I didn't execute him you fucking idiot. Nowhere did I say I did, and I wouldn't have even if I had another councilor. The point is, the choice wasn't a choice at all, I had to show mercy to him because I needed him for the position. Whether I wanted to or not.

 

[Desiderius]

Tbf what Tristan did was something a bit out of a sensical person would consider acceptable. I guess it's more sensical to let him rejoin if you manage to make him destroy the Oculus. Otherwise, there is little reason, narrative-wise, to do so. He has been mostly a plant in your group, and has the critical information to save you and your people during the Bloom but didn't share it to you. I guess he did some hint and nudge during the autopsy to guide you. If he gave the Oculus to Nyrissa a sensical but merciful ruler would at the very least kick him out.

He was literally out of his senses, so that fits.

 

[Desiderius]

I didn't execute him you fucking idiot. Nowhere did I say I did, and I wouldn't have even if I had another councilor. The point is, the choice wasn't a choice at all, I had to show mercy to him because I needed him for the position. Whether I wanted to or not.

You executed Tsanna. Now you're crying about having to take Tristian back because you can't handle the consequences of your own sociopathic choices.

Don't blame the game, blame the spoiled brat player.

 

[Shadenuat]

I had to show mercy to him because I needed him for the position. Whether I wanted to or not

real life politiks for u.

 

[Desiderius]

You want to see bad writing? Go play the Hellknight quest. The one with Linxia and Darven.

Well, even there sucking up to Hellknights is unlikely to work out well, which is what people are bitching about. Evil doesn't do allies.

 

[Shadenuat]

nah that one is actually just dumb garbage written by one of the backers.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I didn't execute him you fucking idiot. Nowhere did I say I did, and I wouldn't have even if I had another councilor. The point is, the choice wasn't a choice at all, I had to show mercy to him because I needed him for the position. Whether I wanted to or not.

But there are 2 other choices as pointed out. One you can even get in the same chapter I think?

The other one is locked behind a choice 2 chapters ago.

There are 3 chances to get Councilor in the game. Instead of bad writing, I guess its the lack of developer foresight gameplay-wise. On the other hand, as pointed out its one of the hardest C&C in conventional RPG (not counting AoD linear/meta-gaming character building).

He was literally out of his senses, so that fits.

Yeah he is duped and really on verge of breaking down. Not to mention he has some alien logic being deva and all, but as I said, there is really no guarantee, IIRC, that he is not simply acting out his repentance if he did give the Oculus to Nyrissa. Kicking him out is less being not merciful and more "Ain't no way I am having a known plant in my team." Not to mention that he really knows jack-shit about the scale of Nyrissa plans, so his "don't know anything except the Bloom" feels like a really bad excuse.

On the other hand, destroying the Oculus is really a show of good faith so you can consider letting him stick around.

 

[razvedchiki]

You are jely of tristans metal hair thats all.

 

[Reinhardt]

I have 40 in int, wis and cha. Why do i need some fag councilor anyway?

 

[DalekFlay]

The archer companion is exactly the kind of Dirty Harry badass I love to play as, so the companion formula just skyrocketed. Not sure I needed another ranged DPS though... Went back to the troll base at level 7 and now it's brain-dead easy on "challenging." They built the rock troll up as a major encounter and then I killed him in literally like 10 seconds. Was this game nerfed in patches?

 

[Pink Eye]

The archer companion is exactly the kind of Dirty Harry badass I love to play as, so the companion formula just skyrocketed. Not sure I needed another ranged DPS though... Went back to the troll base at level 7 and now it's brain-dead easy on "challenging." They built the rock troll up as a major encounter and then I killed him in literally like 10 seconds. Was this game nerfed in patches?

>it's brain-dead easy on "challenging."
>then I killed him in literally like 10 seconds.
>Was this game nerfed in patches?
Nah. That's just Pathfinder for you. You must be getting to mid level gameplay soon. I suggest increasing the difficulty, if you don't want to face roll everything.

 

[razvedchiki]

We really need a jelly button.

 

[Desiderius]

I guess its the lack of developer foresight gameplay-wise.

I'd be surprised if it weren't working exactly as intended. I mean, these developers still don't have the Athletics bonus on Endurance, a third(!) level Ranger ability that matters more than it should, working properly so they're far from perfect. But the reason I keep beating this dead horse so thoroughly is because this is a perfect example of seamlessly integrated consequences matter design that all games should be shooting for.

You set your governing philosophy/temperament when you choose your envoy. If you're:

(1) a bleeding heart libcuck you take the orc kid like the teacher tells you to. You'll end up with two Councilors, which is good because you'd shit your pants and ragequit if you had to go a day without one.

(2) a hardass Machiavellian gigachad you take Mervey to keep your options open. She leaves for a bit, but you know it's no biggie and when you get her back you get a load of lucrative projects. Plus if you've got a little wits and imagination you'll figure out a way to have all three.

(3) a trustfunder pantifa shit-for-brains you take Lander and suffer the consequences, including probably ending up with as many Councilors as you have friends. Though you may end up with Tsanna because you dig evil chicks.

 

[Efe]

dont you get only a single attack per enemy with blade whirlwind and you have to micro positioning or ai never hits more than 1 target?

 

[Dr Skeleton]

I didn't execute him you fucking idiot. Nowhere did I say I did, and I wouldn't have even if I had another councilor. The point is, the choice wasn't a choice at all, I had to show mercy to him because I needed him for the position. Whether I wanted to or not.

You executed Tsanna. Now you're crying about having to take Tristian back because you can't handle the consequences of your own sociopathic choices.

Don't blame the game, blame the spoiled brat player.

I didn't, I let her go. I didn't offer a random priestess of an evil god a position in my government. You really are a giant retard aren't you, not only is this the second time you sperg out "how dare you kill an NPC you heartless sociopath!!!!1!!", you've been wrong both times.

The two other councilor choices are the old women after beating chapter 1 (where you don't know how the kingdom sidegame works, don't know she's a councilor and don't know you might need another councilor much later), and an evil priestess that most players wouldn't just randomly assign to a government position. Without prior knowledge of the game, most players will miss both of these and end up in a situation where they're forced to forgive Tristan because he's the only one for the councilor position. This isn't bad writing, this isn't good writing, it has nothing to do with writing, it wasn't intentional for the character of Tristan or the C&C of forgiving him (or not), and this is just one of the examples of Owlcat's shoddy design of the kingdom minigame. There's no reason why you can't assign someone like Octavia or Jhod to be the councilor. Which NPC qualifies for what positions in Kingmaker is arbitrary as hell and often doesn't make sense at all, this is just the most prominent example because of the 3 available councilors, two are easy to miss without meta gaming and the 3rd is Tristan who betrays you. Forgiving Tristan would be more powerful if it was something done on the basis of whether the player wants to forgive the character, without the pressure of "oh shit, I don't have another councilor because Owlcat rolled d20 to decide who can be a councilor".

 

[Haplo]

dont you get only a single attack per enemy with blade whirlwind and you have to micro positioning or ai never hits more than 1 target?

Yeah. But if that attack is 120 or 240 (on crit) per target in range, it's not too bad. You can CC them at the same time.

Positioning works great turn based. More importantly, turn based means only a single Standard Action after movement anyway.

 

[Efe]

only a single Standard Action after movement anyway.

isnt that same in real time?

Desiderius are you sure whirlwind aoe increases with weapon reach?

 

[Efe]

so you are angry that an event thats supposed to destabilize the land.. destabilizes the land.
it wouldnt be anything major if you could just click twice to get someone else seated.

 

[Desiderius]

don't know you might need another councilor much later.

Yes, that's the seamless part. Instead of rewarding/requiring gaming the system, the consequences flow naturally from your decisions.

Process of elimination would lead anyone with half the sophistication you believe yourself to possess to land on Mervey as the only sensible choice. On the other hand, if you're the kind of person who takes in wards out of the kindness of your heart you're also the kind who should have no problem keeping Tristian, on a short leash as necessary.

Likewise losing him for a week, or at that point not having a Councilor at all, doesn't have near the devastating effect you've convinced yourself it does. You're contributing to the faceroll we all hate.

 

[CaesarCzech]

Imho characters should have favored roles where they work well without penalties or with bonus to rolls + attribute bonus but you should have been able to assign characters as you want.

 

[Reinhardt]

why you can't assign someone like Octavia to be the councilor.

what could possibly go wrong

 

[Desiderius]

only a single Standard Action after movement anyway.

isnt that same in real time?

Desiderius are you sure whirlwind aoe increases with weapon reach?

No, come to think of it I was going to ask Hap. Tall girls don't in fact get more action, so now I'm doubtful.

 

[Desiderius]

dont you get only a single attack per enemy with blade whirlwind and you have to micro positioning or ai never hits more than 1 target?

Yeah. But if that attack is 120 or 240 (on crit) per target in range, it's not too bad. You can CC them at the same time.

Positioning works great turn based. More importantly, turn based means only a single Standard Action after movement anyway.

Moving gets clunky with Gather Power, especially with RTwP. I think I was using Charge to position? Been awhile.

Moving targets are way more fun/realistic. Keeps things a challenge even when you've got the stats to crush.

 

[Ontopoly]

so you are angry that an event thats supposed to destabilize the land.. destabilizes the land.
it wouldnt be anything major if you could just click twice to get someone else seated.

We're so used to developers holding our hands that it's become an expectation. C&C almost doesn't even exist. I see a lot of C but no &C in most of the games that advertise it. I don't consider a different power point presentation after you fight the last boss to be consequences. These consequences need to have actual in-game changes that hurt us or benefit us because of a choice we made. Pathfinder Kingmaker was one of the only recent games that actually did it and all these people that come out and say they love character choice complained because what they actually wanted was to choose one out of three factions that pretty much all function the same then read about how all their choices will totally matter in 30 years after the PC retires in a hut with one out of three romance options that all pretty much function the same.