Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Heroic Liberator]

I mean you're misrepresenting my argument a bit but OK, maybe I have gone on about it a bit too much. In my defense, I was bored at work.

All in good fun, brah.

 

[Nerevar]

Grenadier does seem good. But it isn't a vivisectionist.

I've seen youtube videos of people getting 500DMG a round by using alchemist bombs but I've never really used them. How do you go nova with bombs?

 

[Haplo]

In the utopian Pathfinder of the future, every item should feel like Trollreaper.

This.

If P:K cut every number in half and Dumpsterfire doubled every number they'd both improve greatly.

Come on, there is a ton of weapons in Deadfire. Even more with the DLC. Sure, there are a few categories left that are underrepresented, but most have variety and REALLY interesting uniques.

 

[Parabalus]

Grenadier does seem good. But it isn't a vivisectionist.

I've seen youtube videos of people getting 500DMG a round by using alchemist bombs but I've never really used them. How do you go nova with bombs?

Take the fast bombs feat, that's pmuch it.

 

[Haplo]

Grenadier does seem good. But it isn't a vivisectionist.

I've seen youtube videos of people getting 500DMG a round by using alchemist bombs but I've never really used them. How do you go nova with bombs?

Well, the main thing is to get Fast Bombs Discovery at level 8. That provides iterative bomb throws when full attacking. Also get Rapid Shot, I think it works with Bombs. Add Haste for another throw.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah if you pick Greatsword you are gimped in item choice compared to great axe.

Bastard Sword and Greataxe have the greatest amount of big ticket items available. So it is always good to focus on these.

Unless you have a specific reason to do so, it's better not to focus at all outside of two-handers/TWF/finesse, etc...

I've gone on a bit much too, but I think this (half random, half determined - rewarding flexibility/martial prof) was as much a deliberate design decision as some sort of flaw, outside of the initial missing items of course.

I'm afraid I nearly always have a good reason to specialize. It's not about +1 AB from Focus, certainly not.
But it IS about WF->Dazzling->Shatter Defences (although Rangers and Slayers can skip the reqs).
And also about the crits... so unless magus/paladin mostly support or heavy reliant on sneaks maybe, Improved Critical is a must. Even moreso with the OP Teamwork crit proc feats like Outflank and Seize the Moment. Keen weapons aren't that common and are mainly low enchanted variants (like +1 Keen).

 

[MajorMace]

Finally got this game. Might start this week-end. Anything you wish you'd known before starting ?
I'm not too familiar with pathfinder, I only know there's a million character development options available.
Hit a brother up with knowledge.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

In the utopian Pathfinder of the future, every item should feel like Trollreaper.

This.

If P:K cut every number in half and Dumpsterfire doubled every number they'd both improve greatly.

Come on, there is a ton of weapons in Deadfire. Even more with the DLC. Sure, there are a few categories left that are underrepresented, but most have variety and REALLY interesting uniques.

Yeah I dislike dumpsterfire a lot, and even largely prefer the first game. But items were not deadfire's flaw, in fact Deadfire (and WM) have some pretty well designed items IMO the problem is that everything about character building was totally worthless around launch simply due to the game complete refusal to give you a single challenging encounter.

 

[Shadenuat]

I'm afraid I nearly always have a good reason to specialize. It's not about +1 AB from Focus, certainly not.
But it IS about WF->Dazzling->Shatter Defences (although Rangers and Slayers can skip the reqs).
And also about the crits... so unless magus/paladin mostly support or heavy reliant on sneaks maybe, Improved Critical is a must. Even moreso with the OP Teamwork crit proc feats like Outflank and Seize the Moment. Keen weapons aren't that common and are mainly low enchanted variants (like +1 Keen).

dazzling can be done with a fist and doesn't require actual weapon you speced, and you only play sword saints so you gain keen enchantment anyway.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Finally got this game. Might start this week-end. Anything you wish you'd known before starting ?
I'm not too familiar with pathfinder, I only know there's a million character development options available.
Hit a brother up with knowledge.

I went blind and it's a blast. Made a rogue PC but any role can be provided for by the NPCs. Very flexible system this Patfinder.

 

[NJClaw]

Finally got this game. Might start this week-end. Anything you wish you'd known before starting ?
I'm not too familiar with pathfinder, I only know there's a million character development options available.
Hit a brother up with knowledge.

Even if you are not familiar with Pathfinder, you can make good use of general D&D 3.x knowledge.
Probably the most useful tip for the beginning is the usual "if they are big and strong, target their will/reflex saves; if they are agile, target their fortitude/will saves; if they are mages, target their fortitude/reflex saves".
Just get Grease, Glitterdust, Web and Haste on your arcane caster (you get a Wizard/Rogue companion that's supposed to level up as Arcane Trickster, don't take any other Rogue level) and you will be able to face most of the encounters the game throws at you during the first few chapters.

Animal companions are awesome in this game and a lot of classes have access to this feature: Druid, Sorcerer, Cleric, Ranger, Inquisitor, Barbarian. You just need to buff them as much as you can and you won't really need a "tank" character. It's not a bad idea to have two or more animal companions in the same group.
Buffing up your tank's/animal companion's Armor Class is a good idea if you plan to play on normal difficulty, so look for spells that give different bonuses of different types (two bonuses of the same type don't stack, you benefit only from the highest one). An Alchemist is great at this because he can cast Shield on other characters with the Infusion Discovery. Another great AC buff for animal companions is Barkskin, but only Druids, Alchemists, Rangers and Clerics with Plant domain can cast this spell.

 

[Xamenos]

Finally got this game. Might start this week-end. Anything you wish you'd known before starting ?
I'm not too familiar with pathfinder, I only know there's a million character development options available.
Hit a brother up with knowledge.

Every other cRPG ever has taught you to do the sidequests and explore everything before progressing the main quest, and that a quest telling you "shit's urgent, yo" is meaningless flavor text.

This is not the case here. FIRST you deal with the main problem of each chapter, and THEN you have some free time to explore and do sidequests. Advancing the main quest will never lock you out of anything permanently. And the game is not kidding when it tells you a threat is urgent. Ignore it at your own peril.

 

[Desiderius]

Come on, there is a ton of weapons in Deadfire. Even more with the DLC. Sure, there are a few categories left that are underrepresented, but most have variety and REALLY interesting uniques.

Totally agree while still wanting the effects to be less marginal. After first playthrough was hard to motivate myself to actually enchant anything even while I admired the depth and variety of design.

Dumpsterfire is the M:tG Fallen Empires of crpgs.

 

[Desiderius]

Animal companions are awesome in this game and a lot of classes have access to this feature: Druid, Sorcerer, Cleric, Ranger, Inquisitor, Barbarian. You just need to buff them as much as you can and you won't really need a "tank" character. It's not a bad idea to have two or more animal companions in the same group.
Buffing up your tank's/animal companion's Armor Class is a good idea if you plan to play on normal difficulty, so look for spells that give different bonuses of different types (two bonuses of the same type don't stack, you benefit only from the highest one). An Alchemist is great at this because he can cast Shield on other characters with the Infusion Discovery. Another great AC buff for animal companions is Barkskin, but only Druids, Alchemists, Rangers and Clerics with Plant domain can cast this spell.

This is great advice. I don't find the traditional Arcane caster to be necessary, especially early game. Bard OP (can sing and cast/fight simultaneously).

Start on Easy as you're learning then kick it up as necessary. You will.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm afraid I nearly always have a good reason to specialize. It's not about +1 AB from Focus, certainly not.
But it IS about WF->Dazzling->Shatter Defences (although Rangers and Slayers can skip the reqs).
And also about the crits... so unless magus/paladin mostly support or heavy reliant on sneaks maybe, Improved Critical is a must. Even moreso with the OP Teamwork crit proc feats like Outflank and Seize the Moment. Keen weapons aren't that common and are mainly low enchanted variants (like +1 Keen).

AKSHUALLY they don't really get to skip any pre-reqs, to get Shatter they have to take Dazzling as the initial feat, and WF isn't that great to 'skip'. Further, the other feats in the chain are pretty bad.

I still don't see the great value in Seize the Moment if you already have Outflank

 

[NJClaw]

Animal companions are awesome in this game and a lot of classes have access to this feature: Druid, Sorcerer, Cleric, Ranger, Inquisitor, Barbarian. You just need to buff them as much as you can and you won't really need a "tank" character. It's not a bad idea to have two or more animal companions in the same group.
Buffing up your tank's/animal companion's Armor Class is a good idea if you plan to play on normal difficulty, so look for spells that give different bonuses of different types (two bonuses of the same type don't stack, you benefit only from the highest one). An Alchemist is great at this because he can cast Shield on other characters with the Infusion Discovery. Another great AC buff for animal companions is Barkskin, but only Druids, Alchemists, Rangers and Clerics with Plant domain can cast this spell.

This is great advice. I don't find the traditional Arcane caster to be necessary, especially early game. Bard OP (can sing and cast/fight simultaneously).

Start on Easy as you're learning then kick it up as necessary. You will.

To me, at low levels, the benefits of bard's songs and combat abilities are not enough to justify the slower spells progression. A Sylvan Sorcerer brings to the table more spells with a faster progression and its animal companion combat capabilities are far superior than anything the bard can do fighting-wise. I think it's a lot harder to make a Bard work than a Sylvan Sorcerer.

 

[Desiderius]

Grenadier does seem good. But it isn't a vivisectionist.

I've seen youtube videos of people getting 500DMG a round by using alchemist bombs but I've never really used them. How do you go nova with bombs?

Well, the main thing is to get Fast Bombs Discovery at level 8. That provides iterative bomb throws when full attacking. Also get Rapid Shot, I think it works with Bombs. Add Haste for another throw.

You're right, I'll get three times as many full attacks in as the average Vivi, and it comes with Martial Proficiency. Clearly better.

I stick to one bomb a turn when needed for control. Short duration OP doesn't interest me. Otherwise build a solid Archer, so martial is nice. A melee Grenadier would be solid since you start with Precise, martial, and breath bombs.

Good archer does 500DMG a turn with autoattacks by endgame. Alchemical Weapon, bitchez! Yeah, it sucks, but nothing else does about the class.

 

[Daidre]

AKSHUALLY they don't really get to skip any pre-reqs, to get Shatter they have to take Dazzling as the initial feat, and WF isn't that great to 'skip'. Further, the other feats in the chain are pretty bad.

Dreadful Carnage as third feat in Menacing Style is excellent too. I barely use any manual means to apple Shaken for Shatter with Carnage + Frightful Aspect on higher levels.

 

[Nerevar]

You're right, I'll get three times as many full attacks in as the average Vivi, and it comes with Martial Proficiency. Clearly better.

I stick to one bomb a turn when needed for control. Short duration OP doesn't interest me. Otherwise build a solid Archer, so martial is nice. A melee Grenadier would be solid since you start with Precise, martial, and breath bombs.

Good archer does 500DMG a turn with autoattacks by endgame. Alchemical Weapon, bitchez! Yeah, it sucks, but nothing else does about the class.

How do you build an archer? Just fighter and vivi?

 

[Desiderius]

WF isn't that great to 'skip'. Further, the other feats in the chain are pretty bad.

Drop in the bucket. Don't sweat +1s. Carnage is very good for melee but can be redundant if you already have Dirge.

OW, yeah, Shatter is almost always a pain (you're right that DD is always a prereq - Diedre says Power Attack also works) but almost always worth it.

 

[MajorMace]

Every other cRPG ever has taught you to do the sidequests and explore everything before progressing the main quest, and that a quest telling you "shit's urgent, yo" is meaningless flavor text.

This is not the case here. FIRST you deal with the main problem of each chapter, and THEN you have some free time to explore and do sidequests. Advancing the main quest will never lock you out of anything permanently. And the game is not kidding when it tells you a threat is urgent. Ignore it at your own peril.

That actually sounds really nice.

 

[Desiderius]

AKSHUALLY they don't really get to skip any pre-reqs, to get Shatter they have to take Dazzling as the initial feat, and WF isn't that great to 'skip'. Further, the other feats in the chain are pretty bad.

Dreadful Carnage as third feat in Menacing Style is excellent too. I barely use any manual means to apple Shaken for Shatter with Carnage + Frightful Aspect on higher levels.

You can get Carnage as third feat on Two-handed without any other feat in the chain. Cleave -> Cleaving Finish -> Carnage, for instance.

 

[Daidre]

You can get Carnage as third feat on Two-handed without any other feat in the chain. Cleave -> Cleaving Finish -> Carnage, for instance.

I prefer Power Attack > Shatter Defenses > Dreadful Carnage when I get ranger styles on melee with 2-hander. I do not use Cleave much in RTwP and Cleaving Finish usefulness was always a bit questionable in many situations.

 

[Desiderius]

You're right, I'll get three times as many full attacks in as the average Vivi, and it comes with Martial Proficiency. Clearly better.

I stick to one bomb a turn when needed for control. Short duration OP doesn't interest me. Otherwise build a solid Archer, so martial is nice. A melee Grenadier would be solid since you start with Precise, martial, and breath bombs.

Good archer does 500DMG a turn with autoattacks by endgame. Alchemical Weapon, bitchez! Yeah, it sucks, but nothing else does about the class.

How do you build an archer? Just fighter and vivi?

Vivi is at it's worst on ranged toons. Strongest aspect of Vivi is Feral Mutagen + Nat Armor bonus + extra dam from Mutagen. You get none of that from range (armor doesn't end up mattering much).

Ranged is about getting way more full attacks than melee because you don't have to move. Ranger, Slayer, and Eldritch Scoundrel are all solid choices. Fighter wastes too much of what it gained from the free Weapon Training feats at range. Specialization is small potatoes next to Sneaks, Hurricane, Vitals, Studied Target, Favored Enemy, Deadly Aim, etc...

 

[Desiderius]

You can get Carnage as third feat on Two-handed without any other feat in the chain. Cleave -> Cleaving Finish -> Carnage, for instance.

I prefer Power Attack > Shatter Defenses > Dreadful Carnage when I get ranger styles on melee with 2-hander. I do not use Cleave much in RTwP and Cleaving Finish usefulness was always a bit questionable in many situations.

Interesting. Thought you needed DD to get Shatter. Thx for the tip. Once you get Improved Cleaving Finish you end up with some ridiculous chains. Does require Enlargement/Reach to hit the mobs.