Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Couple more (and Reg's Cloak):

Fucking spot check

Where can you find Tormentor?

Jabberwock behind secret door on Captive level. I missed it first time.

 

[Nerevar]

Does anyone know where you get the Apex Predator helmet?

Depths has it one of the later levels.

 

[Desiderius]

Swordlord wrap-up:

Picture a Sword Coast Stratagems style mod with the following:

(1) (Few) Remaining bugs fixed

(2) Every location fleshed out like Old Sycamore, Swamp Witch, or Silvermere Village, could even cut down on some locations since there are so many empty ones

(3) Each chapter with as many random encounters as Ch 2 and 3

(4) Every mob with a Morale, Competence, or Insight buff via spell/song/aura, every fight a mini-boss with two, area boss with all three

That mod would be doable with any impact on the surrounding game positive. You need the extra experience to get to twenty, and the extra items you get would be balanced out by the greater challenge of pre-buffs.

In light of that mod you'd have one of the greatest games ever, with Swordlord the strongest class as it should be lore-wise.

Swordlord in the base game to follow.

 

[Nerevar]

Just getting ready to go to everyones favoutie part of the game. Actually excited to see how it turns out as I did some things differently this time.

Two hand fighters are really good only character keeping up with my main character damage wise also cleaving finish just shreds through everything. Worst of all she's using a huge axe while I'm using a tiny sai and "short" sword... Maybe I should go back to punching things to appear more manly.

I've found 3 + 5 Greataxes so far. Probally one of the best weapons to spec into.

Spoiler

Well at least my cape is bigger so everyone knows who the king is.

Spoiler

 

[Nerevar]

Swordlord wrap-up:

Picture a Sword Coast Stratagems style mod with the following:

Those are all well and good. Pre-buffs would definitely make a use for dispels and make dispel sneak attacks a very good investment. Even on a slayer archer or something to do first round to sneak shoot the bow at a mage to remove buffs. I don't recalling having to breach or dispel anything even once on PF:K.

There needs to be some threat for super tanks. If you have displacement,60+ AC, mirror image death ward and mindblank. What can they do? Even if the AI does something like trying to run past your tank and hit your back line like they did in Pitax Palace it'll just make you keep them even further back.

Fully agree about the need for more condensed locations. Looking at a typical BG2 map there is loads to do and many quests all around. also the loot was much more memorable.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Swordlord wrap-up:

Picture a Sword Coast Stratagems style mod with the following:

(1) (Few) Remaining bugs fixed

(2) Every location fleshed out like Old Sycamore, Swamp Witch, or Silvermere Village, could even cut down on some locations since there are so many empty ones

(3) Each chapter with as many random encounters as Ch 2 and 3

(4) Every mob with a Morale, Competence, or Insight buff via spell/song/aura, every fight a mini-boss with two, area boss with all three

That mod would be doable with any impact on the surrounding game positive. You need the extra experience to get to twenty, and the extra items you get would be balanced out by the greater challenge of pre-buffs.

In light of that mod you'd have one of the greatest games ever, with Swordlord the strongest class as it should be lore-wise.

Swordlord in the base game to follow.

Hopefully WotR mod support will be able to do this for WotR

Bonus point i fthe tools is backwards compatible with PfK.

 

[Desiderius]

Aldori Swordlord Prestige Class as is (SL10):

(1) no bad prereqs
(2) full BAB
(3) DEX to damage
(4) +5 to Intimidate, +7 or 8 for Dazzling Display
(5) +2 melee AC (full attack)
(6) +2 AB/AC vs creatures who attack you (too late to Parry, in time for AC to prevent hit)
(7) optional -4 AB/+7ish dodge AC
(8) Cornugon Smash on Crit or Disarm (gives Shaken -2 attack/saves)
(9) hit on Shaken mob gives additional -2 attack/saves, removes all morale, competence, and insight bonuses to attacks/saves
(10) -50% crits against
(11) Doesn't trigger AoO recovering from Prone

In effect 8 AB (10 for purposes of iteratives)/9 touch AC or 12AB/2AC, -4 opponent attack, -4 opponent saves, removes buffs, 10ish damage, +5 Intimidate, half crits and AoOs taken.

(1) compare to Duelist with two bad feats for prereq (one shared with Crane Wing if you want that) or clunky Arcane Trickster
(2) for comparison Saint7/SL10 has 3 more BAB than Saint17 = more iteratives, easier to use Fighting Defensively/Combat Expertise as needed
(3) comparable to Aldori Defender level using bonus feat on Slashing Grace, but AD 6 doesn't get a bonus feat, so convenient even for one level splash
(4) Very useful for high EXP checks, especially on non-CHR toons, or just getting CSmash to connect. Bonus to DD great for opening combat with it from Stealth, especially with Thug.
(5) Defensive Parry AC is untyped so adds to Touch AC (better than it looks). You'll want to be Full Attacking with all those early iteratives and high AB.
(6) As main tank Adaptive Tactics triggers on everyone when surrounded, so would help Cleaves land it you went that way, does help on Combat Maneuvers, acts like Improved Uncanny Dodge
(7) With Steel Net, Crane Style, and/or Helm of Battlefield Clarity Adaptive Tactics can cancel out all penalties for Defensive Fighting/Combat Expertise altogether. Those classes/feats go well with Sworlord already.
(8) CSmash usually requires Power Attack, which you don't want on DEX-based, so getting it thru Swordlord is valuable
(9) Shatter Confidence helps whole team, especially casters trying to land CC/debuffs. Hidden +2AC/+2CMB/+2DC team buff. Think how much your casters spend on +2DC. This gives it to all your casters.
(10) Big with Destructive Aura, which gets better the better you play. Most important for builds without Mirror Image.
(11) I think half my deaths are from this, again hidden convenience. But doesn't come up much late unless you're accidentally doing it to your own toons.

Feels kind of bad when playing but turns out to be solid with right support/base class

SL 10 goes well with:

(1) Archaeologist 8/AD1
(2) Sword Saint 7 (Extra Attack + Shield + Image + Weapon Enchant + INT to initiative + free Weapon Focus, Saint is nuts). Solid with any Magus.
(3) Aldori Defender 8 (Disarming Strike makes Disarm better than a Standard attack in terms of damage since it also generates AoOs)
(4) Spawn Slayer 7/AD1 (Disarm everything)

​

Main value on its own is Adaptive Tactics/Shatter Confidence, so can splash SL5 with any DEX-build planning to fight defensively and/or with Combat Expertise. More Intimidate is almost always good.

 

[Desiderius]

Swordlord wrap-up:

Picture a Sword Coast Stratagems style mod with the following:

Those are all well and good. Pre-buffs would definitely make a use for dispels and make dispel sneak attacks a very good investment. Even on a slayer archer or something to do first round to sneak shoot the bow at a mage to remove buffs. I don't recalling having to breach or dispel anything even once on PF:K.

There needs to be some threat for super tanks. If you have displacement,60+ AC, mirror image death ward and mindblank. What can they do? Even if the AI does something like trying to run past your tank and hit your back line like they did in Pitax Palace it'll just make you keep them even further back.

Fully agree about the need for more condensed locations. Looking at a typical BG2 map there is loads to do and many quests all around. also the loot was much more memorable.

There are targets for Dispels late.

True Seeing counters Image and Displacement and some late Fey have it. Touch attacks are tough on all but the best tanks as well. Mindblank does nothing if you Critically Miss your save, and it's Resistance so doesn't stack with most other items and spells. If you haven't been taking care of your saves and immunities Mind Blank isn't going to save you.

 

[AwesomeButton]

So, I cleared the dwarven/troll-kobold ruins, and I only have the Hargulka combat left. I must say Ekundayo (or "Edmundo" like we call him at home after my wife jumbled his name) is my favorite NPC at the moment. I found the stupidly powerful longbow for him and he is instagibbing trolls left and right now. He is lvl 7, including one level in Sacred Huntsmaster.

I have to say the game quickly started feeling from a bit too difficult to a bit too easy once I hit lvl 7 on everyone, and lvl 8 Rogue on the main character. Or maybe it's the result of me going into main quest that's meant for my level.

Edit:
BTW, We found the whip and Octavia revealed some masochistic disposition. I did the only right thing to do with a masochist bitch, refused to give her the whip.

 

[Nerevar]

Wait until you get his feat that makes two attacks hit if the first one hits basically use Ekun to remove one baddie from each encounter as an alpha strike. Great for bursting down mages too.

I think my monk did get hit once or twice in that last bald hill fight but I don't have mirrior image, I sent him in to try and take all the fight by himself for a bit but when he got hit I think from a charge from the keen falchion guys? I sent in the backup.

 

[Technomancer]

Is the baleful polymorph spell still bugged? Like when you transmute someone and you get zero loot after.

 

[DalekFlay]

So, I cleared the dwarven/troll-kobold ruins, and I only have the Hargulka combat left. I must say Ekundayo (or "Edmundo" like we call him at home after my wife jumbled his name) is my favorite NPC at the moment. I found the stupidly powerful longbow for him and he is instagibbing trolls left and right now. He is lvl 7, including one level in Sacred Huntsmaster.

He's why I ditched Linzi. He's just too good at taking out distant targets fast (i.e. mages), without being anywhere near the fray himself. Didn't want to lose Octavia either, so Linzi had to go. Harrim can buff a decent amount, and being DPS focused really seems fine with this game. Someone told me a while back it's not a healing focused game and they were right. Just go rip and tear through everything quickly and then group heal afterward to avoid resting if necessary.

At least, that's my 50 hours of "challenging" take.

 

[NJClaw]

So, I cleared the dwarven/troll-kobold ruins, and I only have the Hargulka combat left. I must say Ekundayo (or "Edmundo" like we call him at home after my wife jumbled his name) is my favorite NPC at the moment. I found the stupidly powerful longbow for him and he is instagibbing trolls left and right now. He is lvl 7, including one level in Sacred Huntsmaster.

He's why I ditched Linzi. He's just too good at taking out distant targets fast (i.e. mages), without being anywhere near the fray himself. Didn't want to lose Octavia either, so Linzi had to go. Harrim can buff a decent amount, and being DPS focused really seems fine with this game. Someone told me a while back it's not a healing focused game and they were right. Just go rip and tear through everything quickly and then group heal afterward to avoid resting if necessary.

At least, that's my 50 hours of "challenging" take.

That's one of the basic things you learn about 3.x after a while: healing during combat is usually a waste of time and resources. Action economy is one of the most important aspects of the game and usually actions during combat are too valuable to be wasted healing, with the exception of high level spells such as Heal and Mass Heal. Another important detail is the fact that, until you get Heal, healing spells and abilities can't keep up with damage numbers: monsters' damage increases faster than spells' healing capabilities.

 

[DalekFlay]

That's one of the basic things you learn about 3.x after a while: healing during combat is usually a waste of time and resources. Action economy is one of the most important aspects of the game and usually actions during combat are too valuable to be wasted healing, with the exception of high level spells such as Heal and Mass Heal. Another important detail is the fact that, until you get Heal, healing spells and abilities can't keep up with damage numbers: monsters' damage increases faster than spells' healing capabilities.

Yeah I just got "heal" and it seems ideal for saving Amiri and things like that. I also like the spell that heals characters who just died, avoiding resurrection or buying a scroll. I rarely use cure wounds in combat anymore though.

 

[NJClaw]

That's one of the basic things you learn about 3.x after a while: healing during combat is usually a waste of time and resources. Action economy is one of the most important aspects of the game and usually actions during combat are too valuable to be wasted healing, with the exception of high level spells such as Heal and Mass Heal. Another important detail is the fact that, until you get Heal, healing spells and abilities can't keep up with damage numbers: monsters' damage increases faster than spells' healing capabilities.

Yeah I just got "heal" and it seems ideal for saving Amiri and things like that. I also like the spell that heals characters who just died, avoiding resurrection or buying a scroll. I rarely use cure wounds in combat anymore though.

Yeah, Breath of Life can be useful because it circumvents one major flaw of healing spells: you character's fighting capabilities (his damage output and his offensive spells and abilities) are the same when he is at full hp and when he is at 1 hp. You gain nothing from going from 1 hp to 100. The only reason to waste an action healing someone is to prevent his death, because when a character reaches 0 hp you lose his usefulness. Breath of Life allows you to avoid wasting your action healing, because it lets you postpone the decision of casting the healing spell.

 

[AwesomeButton]

He's why I ditched Linzi. He's just too good at taking out distant targets fast (i.e. mages), without being anywhere near the fray himself. Didn't want to lose Octavia either, so Linzi had to go. Harrim can buff a decent amount, and being DPS focused really seems fine with this game. Someone told me a while back it's not a healing focused game and they were right. Just go rip and tear through everything quickly and then group heal afterward to avoid resting if necessary.

At least, that's my 50 hours of "challenging" take.

Yep, what NJClaw said, attack is the best defence. It plays very much the opposite of how PoE/Deadfire plays.

Meanwhile, another impression and comparison to PoE, very much in favor of PKM. The shattering of the anvil, and the lingering question in the quest log - was it directed by a god and by which god? This detail puts all of "Magran's Favor" in Kingmaker's breast pocket, with the way the player is left geniuinely wondering. I hope there is a follow up and by everything it seems there will be one.

 

[Desiderius]

All y'all be crazy.

Linzi (Bards in general) are the most powerful source of offense in the game, not close, and that's before you even get into their also OP offensive songs and spells. They can even do some damage with weapons + Sense Vitals.

Compare PoE's wimpy Chants or BG's Bards that can only sing songs far weaker than P:Ks or cast/fight, while in P:K you can do both. Wonder how many people play P:K and never figure that out.

The only buffs Harrim has are (very good) self-buffs, other than Destructive Aura, and I know y'all aren't using that. If you need buffs Jub can hook you up.

Game's about to get mysteriously hard again for you.

 

[Erebus]

I'm too lazy for complicated builds, so I strongly tend to use single-classed characters.

This time, I've reached Act 6 (on Hard) with a single-classed Bard purely focused on support and crowd control as my PC. It's pretty fun.

Bards can't do all the party buffing all by themselves, but they have access to a lot of useful buff spells such as Heroism, Haste, Displacement, etc. And their bardic inspirations are pretty good ! Inspire Courage makes hitting enemies a lot easier, Inspire Greatness grants you bonus HP, Dirge of Doom makes enemies more vulnerable to your spells and Inspire Competence helps a lot with skill checks.

Bards are great when it comes to taking enemies out of the fight for a while. Specializing in Enchantment works pretty well (with the help of the Enchanter's Cloak and, after Pitax, Maya's Charm). Hideous Laughter is available right from the start. At high level, you get access to spells such as Mass Cacophonous Call and Overwhelming Presence, that can completely cripple large groups of enemies.

Bards are also great skill monkeys (even without boosting themselves with Inspire Competence). Their high Charisma makes them great at Persuasion and Persuasion checks can reward you with a lot of XP (my PC is now very close to level 20 and I haven't even reached the House yet). Their bonus with Knowledge skills is also nice.

On the downside... well, it's probably possible to make a bard that's a good fighter, but probably not without making some sacrifices. I didn't even try : my bard is level 19 and I stll wouldn't trust her to kill anything by herself. I had to make sure she wouldn't fight a soul eater one-on-one, as she couldn't possibly win. And in Nyrissa's dream, I only won fights thanks to summoning spells.

Also, bards are significantly weaker against enemies immune to mind-affecting spells. That's almost always the case in Vordakai's dungeon, in which my bard mainly used Grease (actually pretty useful, as undead cyclops have terrible Reflex saves).

 

[Yosharian]

Apparently Bards can transition pretty well into Evocation nukers late game, haven't tested it fully yet though

 

[Yosharian]

Is the baleful polymorph spell still bugged? Like when you transmute someone and you get zero loot after.

Technically not a bug

 

[Desiderius]

Blind that one eye and you're good too. Glitterdust is AoE with Will save. And Slow is an all game All-Star.

Also, Soul Eaters aren't undead so don't have nearly as many immunities. Fear, for one.

Once you discover the best buff in the game, Good Hope (it also gives +2 damage, and is groupwide), you'll never cast another Heroism, and Bard is the only class who gets it. Other than that, though, Bard is missing most of the best buffs in the game. You want those slots for the awesome offensive spells anyway.

 

[Desiderius]

Apparently Bards can transition pretty well into Evocation nukers late game, haven't tested it fully yet though

Evocation yes, but stunners, not nukers. There's a Rod of +3 Evo DC. Good against ghosts and fae.

 

[Technomancer]

Is the baleful polymorph spell still bugged? Like when you transmute someone and you get zero loot after.

Technically not a bug

Really? The loot is supposed to be destroyed in the source rules as well?

There's a Rod of +3 Evo DC

Do you remember the place?

 

[Shadenuat]

On the downside... well, it's probably possible to make a bard that's a good fighter, but probably not without making some sacrifices

i just make half orc with 20 str and focus on falchions and crits and last time this char did 25% of total damage in 6 people unfair party.
also str + cha = scare people lots.

some would obviously want to mix dd or whatever into this but honestly, i didn't find any difference between 2 since full bard = full song, and dd = some strength (and a bite i guess).

 

[Zurat-Yarkuch]

So, I defeated the troll king and Tartuk and felt like an invincible badass after reaching level 7 and just curb stomping mobs with my party.

So, on my way back to my capital I decide to explore that bridge on the map. Just wiping out all the mobs of wolfs and animals. See a cave. Huh, wonder what type of enemy is in there?

Spoiler

Craig Linnorm!!! Holy shit!

Just asking out of curiosity, is it possible to kill it at this point? I was reading online and someone claimed that it was part of a quest. I don't want to kill it early and break the game.