Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Yosharian]

Is the baleful polymorph spell still bugged? Like when you transmute someone and you get zero loot after.

Technically not a bug

Really? The loot is supposed to be destroyed in the source rules as well?

There's a Rod of +3 Evo DC

Do you remember the place?

"all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function)."

The loot is not destroyed. It is present, melded into the target's current form.

As for the rod, from my Steam page:

Rod of Flaming Vengeance [Artisan: Irlene ('Rod', T5)]

 

[Shadenuat]

So, I defeated the troll king and Tartuk and felt like an invincible badass after reaching level 7 and just curb stomping mobs with my party.

So, on my way back to my capital I decide to explore that bridge on the map. Just wiping out all the mobs of wolfs and animals. See a cave. Huh, wonder what type of enemy is in there?

Spoiler

Craig Linnorm!!! Holy shit!

Just asking out of curiosity, is it possible to kill it at this point? I was reading online and someone claimed that it was part of a quest. I don't want to kill it early and break the game.

nah doesn't break quests

yes you should absolutely engage it right now with your party. don't forget to increase difficulty too so it wont be ez.

 

[Yosharian]

BTW they fixed that thing where you can equip something with a permanent effect (such as continuous Freedom of Movement) but in a slot you're not using. If you switch away from the weapon, you no longer gain the effect.

 

[Xamenos]

So, I defeated the troll king and Tartuk and felt like an invincible badass after reaching level 7 and just curb stomping mobs with my party.

So, on my way back to my capital I decide to explore that bridge on the map. Just wiping out all the mobs of wolfs and animals. See a cave. Huh, wonder what type of enemy is in there?

Spoiler

Craig Linnorm!!! Holy shit!

Just asking out of curiosity, is it possible to kill it at this point? I was reading online and someone claimed that it was part of a quest. I don't want to kill it early and break the game.

It can absolutely be done at L7. And it's not gonna be a problem for any quest. It will either confirm that you really are an invincible badass (and should probably raise the difficulty), or make you reconsider such boast.

 

[DalekFlay]

All y'all be crazy.

Linzi (Bards in general) are the most powerful source of offense in the game, not close, and that's before you even get into their also OP offensive songs and spells. They can even do some damage with weapons + Sense Vitals.

You know the game mechanics more than me, I'm not saying bards are bad in any way. I'm saying I love playing aggressively with the other two and don't really miss having a bard around. It's good that multiple playstyles are completely viable, I wouldn't want it any other way.

The only buffs Harrim has are (very good) self-buffs, other than Destructive Aura, and I know y'all aren't using that. If you need buffs Jub can hook you up.

Octavia has haste, slow and the various DEX/STR buffs I can do before tough battles. Harrim has the normal cleric assists and such. Seems to work out just fine.

Game's about to get mysteriously hard again for you.

I'm steamrolling everything at level 11, so more challenge would be good. Only challenging fights I've had are ones where I basically limited myself to not going back to town and altering strategy to what would obviously be better. I don't want to put it past challenging either, since that's just inflating enemy stats way above the PnP game which is pretty meh.

 

[Yosharian]

It's arguably close when you're comparing the strength of, say, Inspire Courage vs having another party member that's actually good at hitting things.

The thing is, Bard brings more than that. You can have your bard casting Heroism on everyone for starters, they get that spell earlier than other casters and they can cast it a lot. Same goes for spells like Hideous Laughter.

Then you can also easily spec your Bard into a decent ranged attacker because of Combat Trick. Which Bard is not supposed to get, but they do in this game, and it makes them borderline overpowered, honestly. 5 free feats is just insane for a caster class like Bard.

 

[Yosharian]

I wonder if you have to be wielding the weapon which you specialised in with the Weapon Focus feat, when attempting to enjoy the benefits of Shatter Defenses. The flavour text indicates it, but the actual feat wording does not.

Benefit: Any shaken, frightened, or panicked opponent hit by you this round is flat-footed to your attacks until the end of your next turn. This includes any additional attacks you make this round.

 

[Desiderius]

It's arguably close when you're comparing the strength of, say, Inspire Courage vs having another party member that's actually good at hitting things.

The thing is, Bard brings more than that. You can have your bard casting Heroism on everyone for starters, they get that spell earlier than other casters and they can cast it a lot. Same goes for spells like Hideous Laughter.

Then you can also easily spec your Bard into a decent ranged attacker because of Combat Trick. Which Bard is not supposed to get, but they do in this game, and it makes them borderline overpowered, honestly. 5 free feats is just insane for a caster class like Bard.

Heroism is single target and doesn't boost damage. If you really need it before level 7 use a potion or something (there's a wand with 50 charges in Depths 4). Good Hope is party-wide and also boosts damage, and you need those level 2 spell slots - there are a ton of good options.

If your party has a Bard, everyone will be good at hitting things, and hit much harder. That includes the Bard herself if you want to go that direction. Piranha Strike/Deadly Aim converts AB into Damage at a 1 to 2 rate, and eventually Vitals becomes a thing too, as does Rapid Shot or Two-Weapon Fighting. But you'll usually be casting during big fights. Or you can use that Mirror Image to get into combat and trigger a bunch of crit chains with Outflank and wide crit range weapons like Rapiers.

 

[DalekFlay]

The thing is, Bard brings more than that. You can have your bard casting Heroism on everyone for starters, they get that spell earlier than other casters and they can cast it a lot. Same goes for spells like Hideous Laughter.

Spells like laughter are pretty useless on "challenging" because anything they would work on effectively I'm steamrolling with normal DPS anyway. There's no real point crowd controlling a caster in the distance if Octavia and Ekun can kill it in one or two turns by themselves.

 

[Yosharian]

The thing is, Bard brings more than that. You can have your bard casting Heroism on everyone for starters, they get that spell earlier than other casters and they can cast it a lot. Same goes for spells like Hideous Laughter.

Spells like laughter are pretty useless on "challenging" because anything they would work on effectively I'm steamrolling with normal DPS anyway. There's no real point crowd controlling a caster in the distance if Octavia and Ekun can kill it in one or two turns by themselves.

Can't say I agree with that. Hideous Laughter works wonders against the were-rats for example

 

[Zurat-Yarkuch]

Spoiler

FUCK YEAH!!!

This was one I honestly thought I would have to give up on, but after about five or more attempts I finally did it.

I'm just sad that Linzi's knowledge world check wasn't high enough to properly inspect the Crag Linnorm. I wanted to see its stats.

Also, in case anyone is wondering about my portrait, that is something I cooked up in Daz Studio. If you want to use it yourself here is a link to it.

Spoiler

https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/941136/

 

[Yosharian]

'Henry'? Was Archibald taken?

 

[Haplo]

The thing is, Bard brings more than that. You can have your bard casting Heroism on everyone for starters, they get that spell earlier than other casters and they can cast it a lot. Same goes for spells like Hideous Laughter.

Spells like laughter are pretty useless on "challenging" because anything they would work on effectively I'm steamrolling with normal DPS anyway. There's no real point crowd controlling a caster in the distance if Octavia and Ekun can kill it in one or two turns by themselves.

Can't say I agree with that. Hideous Laughter works wonders against the were-rats for example

Its good early game. Great vs Hargulka for example. Can't remember using it much post-Hargulka though.
For most encounters aoe effects are way better / more action efficient. Phantasmal Web, Glitterdust, the Pitts (!), Grease, even Slow. Most of those spells also work on enemies immune to compulsions and 3 of them even ignore SR.
Eventually the likes of VineTrap/Chains of Light/Icy Prison come online as single-target boss killers and are generally superior (Chains even ignore SR and work on golems AFAIR).

 

[Haplo]

Once you discover the best buff in the game, Good Hope (it also gives +2 damage, and is groupwide), you'll never cast another Heroism, and Bard is the only class who gets it. Other than that, though, Bard is missing most of the best buffs in the game. You want those slots for the awesome offensive spells anyway.

I still kept casting Heroism after getting Good Hope: on my Intimidation/Diplomacy character and on my Trickery/Perception character. Because of the +2 skill bonus it bestows... and because of the much longer duration (eventually doesn't mater, but initially it does).

 

[Haplo]

So, I cleared the dwarven/troll-kobold ruins, and I only have the Hargulka combat left. I must say Ekundayo (or "Edmundo" like we call him at home after my wife jumbled his name) is my favorite NPC at the moment. I found the stupidly powerful longbow for him and he is instagibbing trolls left and right now. He is lvl 7, including one level in Sacred Huntsmaster.

He's why I ditched Linzi. He's just too good at taking out distant targets fast (i.e. mages), without being anywhere near the fray himself. Didn't want to lose Octavia either, so Linzi had to go. Harrim can buff a decent amount, and being DPS focused really seems fine with this game. Someone told me a while back it's not a healing focused game and they were right. Just go rip and tear through everything quickly and then group heal afterward to avoid resting if necessary.

At least, that's my 50 hours of "challenging" take.

That's one of the basic things you learn about 3.x after a while: healing during combat is usually a waste of time and resources. Action economy is one of the most important aspects of the game and usually actions during combat are too valuable to be wasted healing, with the exception of high level spells such as Heal and Mass Heal. Another important detail is the fact that, until you get Heal, healing spells and abilities can't keep up with damage numbers: monsters' damage increases faster than spells' healing capabilities.

I'd typically agree... but P:K has Channel energy. I've found that an okay mid-fight healing solution before getting Heal. It won't save your skin if you're getting slaughtered but delivers a healthy chunk of HP to whole party from a safe distance (and potentially enemies... no problem is your focusing them as you should).

 

[Yosharian]

Its good early game. Great vs Hargulka for example. Can't remember using it much post-Hargulka though.
For most encounters aoe effects are way better / more action efficient. Phantasmal Web, Glitterdust, the Pitts (!), Grease, even Slow. Most of those spells also work on enemies immune to compulsions and 3 of them even ignore SR.
Eventually the likes of VineTrap/Chains of Light/Icy Prison come online as single-target boss killers and are generally superior (Chains even ignores SR).

Wtf is the Pitts

Sell Phantasmal Web to me, I'm not seeing the value for a 5th level spell with two saves that's mind-affecting

 

[Haplo]

Its good early game. Great vs Hargulka for example. Can't remember using it much post-Hargulka though.
For most encounters aoe effects are way better / more action efficient. Phantasmal Web, Glitterdust, the Pitts (!), Grease, even Slow. Most of those spells also work on enemies immune to compulsions and 3 of them even ignore SR.
Eventually the likes of VineTrap/Chains of Light/Icy Prison come online as single-target boss killers and are generally superior (Chains even ignores SR).

Wtf is the Pitts

Sell Phantasmal Web to me, I'm not seeing the value for a 5th level spell with two saves that's mind-affecting

Its enemy only huge aoe, it immobilizes on failed Will (which is the weak save of most non-casters), so melees become kinda neutralized. If they also fail Fort, they are also nauseated and pretty much helpless.
Granted, due to high-ish level and mind-effect nature of the spell, I've used it significantly less then the rest from the list.

The Pitts are Create Pitt, Acid Maw, Pit of Chaos and such. But already the initial Create Pit is superb vs enemies without particularly high Reflex. Taking a large part of the enemy force out of the fight to freely focus on the rest? Yes, please. Have them slowly crawl out one-by-one to be slaughtered by your full party?
Eventually when you slaughter most enemies regardless it becomes a bit annoying to wait for the enemies to get out, but in the first half of the game its one of the best CC. Also a lifesaver at the Lonely Barrows lich fight for example... his guardian armors can be annoying but the Pit mostly neutralizes them...

 

[Haplo]

As for the rod, from my Steam page:

Rod of Flaming Vengeance [Artisan: Irlene ('Rod', T5)]

Yep. Note the Rod also passively turns all your elemental spells into Fire.

 

[Efe]

pit spells.
pit, acid pit, hungry pit.. goes up to lv9 i think.
its great for staggering number of enemies engaged but later on it just takes too long to disappear so you stop using it

are you immune to pits if you get rough terrain immunity like wings?

 

[Yosharian]

Interesting.

 

[Haplo]

Bards can't do all the party buffing all by themselves, but they have access to a lot of useful buff spells such as Heroism, Haste, Displacement, etc. And their bardic inspirations are pretty good ! Inspire Courage makes hitting enemies a lot easier, Inspire Greatness grants you bonus HP, Dirge of Doom makes enemies more vulnerable to your spells and Inspire Competence helps a lot with skill checks.

You're missing the most important thing about Dirge of Doom (and other sources of fear - but that one is probably best, as its early, autohit, no save, later on does't even necessarily take an action - particularly if ranged). Be in aura range and get fucked.

If an enemy is shaken, he's subject to Shatter Defenses, which is like the best feat in the game. Denies enemies all their Dex and Dodge AC bonuses. And that can be huge! Makes your character hit and crit all the time! Free sneaks all day long - even without flanking/other CC, even for ranged (if within 30 ft).
Also greatly lowers enemy Combat Maneuver Defense vs attacks from enemies with Shatter.

 

[Seari]

Wtf is the Pitts

Brad Pitt and his family.

 

[Desiderius]

Once you discover the best buff in the game, Good Hope (it also gives +2 damage, and is groupwide), you'll never cast another Heroism, and Bard is the only class who gets it. Other than that, though, Bard is missing most of the best buffs in the game. You want those slots for the awesome offensive spells anyway.

I still kept casting Heroism after getting Good Hope: on my Intimidation/Diplomacy character and on my Trickery/Perception character. Because of the +2 skill bonus it bestows... and because of the much longer duration (eventually doesn't mater, but initially it does).

Good Hope does skills too. Good Hope does all five, Heroism only three. Good Hope is seven minutes when you get it, just use your Extend Rod fire and forget. Only thing you'll use Heroism for is when solo.

 

[Desiderius]

pit spells.
pit, acid pit, hungry pit.. goes up to lv9 i think.
its great for staggering number of enemies engaged but later on it just takes too long to disappear so you stop using it

are you immune to pits if you get rough terrain immunity like wings?

Pits are all just fancy versions of Grease. AoE vs Reflex CC. Nukers are like if you want to attack Reflex AoE why not just kill shit.

 

[Haplo]

Its out of the fight for 1 round on each failed save (plus extras: AoOs when getting up, -4 AC vs melee) vs being out of the fight till the rest of your buddies are dead (usually), plus some minor damage (actually potential total over duration is significant, weaker damaged mobs may not survive it).
Also camping the grease borders (but being extremely careful not to fall inside) vs mostly fire and forget the mobs inside till you're ready to take care of them/they start crawling out. Can also use a Battering Ram or some other Bullrush/fear technique to push enemies inside the Pit.

Nuking is great and all but not very efficient early on, particularly when spell slots are still scarce.