Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

View attachment 12617

Is this portrait somewhere on the nexus? I couldn't find it there. It looks like one of those Legend of the Cryptids art pieces.

Yes, under Inquisitors (Tactical Leader)

Strangely I can't find it now in my Portrait folder.

 

[Haplo]

Extra attacks are given trough a property that is like super haste and wouldn't stack. It already doesn't stack with regular Haste.

On the positive side, the extra attacks are always given to the main hand, where you can equip a more potent weapon.

 

[Desiderius]

One reason Swordlord seems underpowered is that it looks like Steel Net was accidentally given to the Aldori Defender (it says Swordlord in the description) or maybe moved to enhance AD for launch. It's a very powerful ability.

 

[Desiderius]

It looks like Adaptive Tactics isn't triggering until after Parry triggers, so doesn't help win the Parry. Choose Duelist or Swordlord, not both. I could be wrong, but I think that line on Aldori Dueling Mastery about treated as piercing is required to Parry/Precise Strike (INT to damage) at all. If you don't take that feat or Slashing Grace then you can't Parry with a Dueling Sword or get INT to damage. Dueling Sword is a Long Sword which can be finessed, but is still slashing and not light.

Rapier (piercing) or Shortsword (light) is a more natural fit, but Aldori Dueling Mastery is fine for a non-Sword Saint (Saints already have tons of initiative and can just cast Shield) like the first non-caster build above. In the Sword Saint build it ended up redundant. If you want a Sword Saint Duelist with Dueling Sword just take Slashing Grace and skip Swordlord altogether.

Sword Saint Swordlord (non-Duelist) is a great fit since you don't need to worry about piercing or light, or initiative or shield, so can skip both Aldori Dueling Mastery and Slashing Grace.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

guys is this the best RPG for making a necromancer type character (lots of summons)?

I've seen screenshots of people with a big army of summoned shit and that looks like fun, does it actually work?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

guys is this the best RPG for making a necromancer type character (lots of summons)?

I've seen screenshots of people with a big army of summoned shit and that looks like fun, does it actually work?

Undead not so much. I think there are only 2 undead summoning spells in the game, one at Spells Level 3 (Skeletal Champions) and another at Spells Level 7 (Grave Knights).

There are builds that focus on summoning (Monster Tactician I guess?) but I am not that sure whether it's effective or not. In general, the summons will mostly be meatshield and occupy the enemies while you are doing something else. Starting from Summon Monster VI I think the summons become quite decent at actually killing things.

 

[jungl]

This game would of been lot better turn based. Enemy wins initiative casts dispel there goes all the prebuffing or if the developers were smart and took a page from baldurs gate 2 book. Use some homebrew DnD rules giving enemy casters a speed bonus so they cast spells 1.5 times faster then player and attack more

 

[InD_ImaginE]

This game would of been lot better turn based. Enemy wins initiative casts dispel there goes all the prebuffing or if the developers were smart and took a page from baldurs gate 2 book. Use some homebrew DnD rules giving enemy casters a speed bonus so they cast spells 1.5 times faster then player and attack more

The enemy AI could be better, yes.

This game in TB is one of the most boring gameplay wise. I can count interesting fight in TB using two hands.

BG2 with SCS is not really that hard either, but yeah, in general having better AI + pre-buffing would make the game much better.

 

[Haplo]

This game would of been lot better turn based. Enemy wins initiative casts dispel there goes all the prebuffing or if the developers were smart and took a page from baldurs gate 2 book. Use some homebrew DnD rules giving enemy casters a speed bonus so they cast spells 1.5 times faster then player and attack more

It IS turn based. You just need to install the awesome mod. Works perfectly. Makes this excellent game one of the best computer games ever.

Well, dispelling is still scarce. At least late game some rogue ghosts have dispelling strike talent. Monarchs also use Greater Dispel.

 

[Desiderius]

guys is this the best RPG for making a necromancer type character (lots of summons)?

I've seen screenshots of people with a big army of summoned shit and that looks like fun, does it actually work?

 

[Technomancer]

guys is this the best RPG for making a necromancer type character (lots of summons)?

I've seen screenshots of people with a big army of summoned shit and that looks like fun, does it actually work?

View attachment 12652

Probably smart to add abyssal sorc 15 to that, for one extra summon to everything.

 

[Desiderius]

This game would of been lot better turn based. Enemy wins initiative casts dispel there goes all the prebuffing or if the developers were smart and took a page from baldurs gate 2 book. Use some homebrew DnD rules giving enemy casters a speed bonus so they cast spells 1.5 times faster then player and attack more

Some have at first for wits, then poets pass'd,
Turn'd critics next, and prov'd plain fools at last;
Some neither can for wits nor critics pass,
As heavy mules are neither horse nor ass.
Those half-learn'd witlings, num'rous in our isle
As half-form'd insects on the banks of Nile;
Unfinish'd things, one knows not what to call,
Their generation's so equivocal:
To tell 'em, would a hundred tongues require,
Or one vain wit's, that might a hundred tire.

But you who seek to give and merit fame,
And justly bear a critic's noble name,
Be sure your self and your own reach to know,
How far your genius, taste, and learning go;
Launch not beyond your depth, but be discreet,
And mark that point where sense and dulness meet.

Turn-based has nothing to do with it. If you lose initiative to a pack of Dweomercats they'll pounce your ass with a flurry of Dispelling Strikes before you get to act on RTwP too. Unavoidable in the Varnhold DLC. Twisted Sisters have a Dispelling Wail as well. The big challenging fights have their share of quickened spells if you're not getting in there and disrupting them, which is easier said than done. As it is, Dispelling is a difficult task for both mob and toon, which is maybe an overcorrection from BGII but a needed one.

And if you're an Amish Luddite Stick-in-the-Mud TBtard who needs his mommy to fly in on her helicopter to cast Time Stop before every battle then there's also a perfectly functional mod she can install for you too.

 

[Desiderius]

guys is this the best RPG for making a necromancer type character (lots of summons)?

I've seen screenshots of people with a big army of summoned shit and that looks like fun, does it actually work?

View attachment 12652

Probably smart to add abyssal sorc 15 to that, for one extra summon to everything and ring that buffs summons.

You can get numbers from Superior Summoning. The ring doesn't stack with the Staff.

 

[Technomancer]

guys is this the best RPG for making a necromancer type character (lots of summons)?

I've seen screenshots of people with a big army of summoned shit and that looks like fun, does it actually work?

View attachment 12652

Probably smart to add abyssal sorc 15 to that, for one extra summon to everything and ring that buffs summons.

You can get numbers from Superior Summoning.

He wanted hordes, abyssal extra summon should stack with superior summoning.

The ring doesn't stack with the Staff.

Is this a bug or it's by design?

 

[Desiderius]

So last word on the SwordSaintLord - that build is fun but doesn't really take advantage of/need Swordlord.

If you want to play a SaintLord you could do a lot worse than just SS7/SL10/x. That -2 Saves at SL10 is big, even if you're not using the turning off Morale/Insight/Competence bonuses very often yet. Start combat with Display from Stealth, then use your high Initiative to give any target -4 Saves (-2 from Shaken) and -6 on attacks (Shaken, Shatter Confidence, Adaptive Tactics) before it gets to act. Combine with Thug to taste.

 

[Desiderius]

Is this a bug or it's by design?

Enhancement bonuses don't stack.

Monster Tactician is better than Abyssal Sorc because your summons are min/lvl and get your Teamwork feats.

 

[Desiderius]

There are builds that focus on summoning (Monster Tactician I guess?) but I am not that sure whether it's effective or not. In general, the summons will mostly be meatshield and occupy the enemies while you are doing something else. Starting from Summon Monster VI I think the summons become quite decent at actually killing things.

Freebooter's Bane and similar debuffs (like Neutralizer bow) helps them hit/damage since they don't get benefit from (most) regular group buffs. Skelly Champs are reasonably solid with all their immunities.

 

[Technomancer]

Is this a bug or it's by design?

Enhancement bonuses don't stack.

Monster Tactician is better than Abyssal Sorc because your summons are min/lvl and get your Teamwork feats.

But why do you have to choose one? 15 Ab Sorc , 5 Monster Tact. Sure going full is better, he will miss out on the most powerful monsters but he will get hordes of undead with teamwork feats. He asked for best necromancer summoner not best summoner.

 

[Desiderius]

Is this a bug or it's by design?

Enhancement bonuses don't stack.

Monster Tactician is better than Abyssal Sorc because your summons are min/lvl and get your Teamwork feats.

But why do you have to choose one? 15 Ab Sorc , 5 Monster Tact. Sure going full is better, he will miss out on the most powerful monsters but he will get hordes of undead with teamwork feats. He asked for best necromancer summoner not best summoner.

Because 105% of the game takes place before lvl 20 when your one (!) extra summon would kick in? Pretty sure summons from Sorc Spellbook also don't get the Teamwork feats from MT. Different casting stat, etc...

Knock yourself out if you're wanting to Sorc it up, but straight up MT snowballs nicely with six (!) teamwork feats and Bane Weapon is a Force Damage house. Six Skellies with Outflank is pretty funny when one of them gets lucky. Tandem Trip doesn't work for them, but it does turn on your own with Mastery Fauchard, etc...

 

[Technomancer]

Because 105% of the game takes place before lvl 20 when your one (!) extra summon would kick in?

Yeah, that is true. It's not WotR.

Pretty sure summons from Sorc Spellbook also don't get the Teamwork feats from MT. Different casting stat, etc...

Aww, what...

With owlcat thought, you never know. They are prone to bending the rules if it means easier implementation.

 

[Technomancer]

Desiderius since you know your game pretty well, could advise on a new build perhaps? I want to start as a full caster maximizing DC and CS. For now, I want to skip gnome illusionist and focus on damaging necromancy perhaps, I plan to go sage sorc without any alch dips. From my understanding focusing on the caster levels is only good for 2 necro spells - FoD and Banshee since they scale their damage based on CL without any ceiling, for any other spell higher caster level means higher DC and that is it, is this correct?

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius since you know your game pretty well, could advise on a new build perhaps? I want to start as a full caster maximizing DC and CS. For now, I want to skip gnome illusionist and focus on damaging necromancy perhaps, I plan to go sage sorc without any alch dips. From my understanding focusing on the caster levels is only good for 2 necro spells - FoD and Banshee since they scale their damage based on CL without any ceiling, for any other spell higher caster level means higher DC and that is it, is this correct?

Shad and Haplo are your Necronuker experts around here. Glad you're skipping the Vivi splash as above all else it's pretty boring. Hap likes it but I can't see it on anything that can't use the bite and the armor.

Sounds to me like your reasoning is very sound. Maybe you can test some things and tell us what works.

DC is based on caster stat and spell level. Caster level is important for Spell Penetration (vs Spell Resistance).

 

[Desiderius]

The last Aldori Sworlord build is my favorite.

Based on the Archaeologist class it's the only one with Uncanny Dodge (very important for DEX-based builds without a ton of initiative) and Evasion, while it also can blow out almost every skill check in the game, including the Perception and Persuasion checks needed by Swordlord. During the following tests I brilliantly wore Light Armor which canceled the AC from the Monk splash. I only do the Monk splash when I have the open hand and my caster stat is one of the Monk AC stats (WIS or CHR), which is almost never. This is the exception. Of course with High CHR you go for the Pal splash too for the save boost, and in this case for Bodyguard and In Harm's Way at L20. The Monk splash seemed especially good since Swordlord was giving me -1 AB for +7 AC (Fighting Defensively and Crane Wing) with it along with another free +9 Dodge AC from the CHR bonus which would have put touch AC up in the 40s with Mirror Image/Displacement chipping in from there.

A shot from midbattle where you can see the missing AC:

She ran around critting stuff like the other two (most of the game you'll be tanking and doing solid damage, the crits are from Bloodhound + Improved Crit which is late game). But the Rangers photobombed this test:

Those are pretty nice totals for a Cleave and a Bow Shot. Okbo still mad he lost his name at respec:

You can see Efe getting her crit in. Here's another:

Wait, that's not even a crit. Not bad. Graveknight having some fun for all you Necromancers out there. Monster Tactician lvls count for Destructive Aura if you're wondering...

 

[Desiderius]

Here you are with the right outfit on:

Abusing Evil Dragon:

Graveknight wants his shot Necromancers!

 

[Yosharian]

Which is better as an 8th level Cleric/Inquisitor domain ability for Kingmaker:

Ward Against Death (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura that wards against death for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. Living creatures in this area are immune to all death effects, energy drain, and effects that cause negative levels. This ward does not remove negative levels that a creature has already gained, but the negative levels have no effect while the creature is inside the warded area. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Freedom’s Call (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of freedom for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. Allies within this aura are not affected by the confused, grappled, frightened, panicked, paralyzed, or shaken conditions. This aura only suppresses these effects, and they return once a creature leaves the aura or when the aura ends, if applicable. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.

I'm leaning towards the freedom one to negate Wild Hunt cheese endgame. But on-demand Death Ward might be just as useful?