Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[LannTheStupid]

InEffect is no Tsar.

He is the Chairman of Sovnarkom.

 

[Desiderius]

Whatever. He reduced the rating of the game by 10% single-handedly by bullying everybody into playing it like a bad WoW clone instead of playing it as designed.

First game with OP Bard and innumerable viable approaches and he forces everyone into (highly suboptimal) tank, spank, and heal.

 

[Sykar]

required for Ironman/Tinman.

Which is, by the way, the way the ruleset is meant to be played. There's no loading a save in tabletop after all.

There is a DM who can rule favorably.

 

[Whisper]

I will own you all night.

Surrender.

Got your "strategy". Playing on Story. Than switch to Unfair and use like 15+ buffs per 1 (one) fight and than 10+ debuffs per 1 (one) enemy, and after dozen of reloads call it a "win".

I prefer just tank baddies and destroy them at range. Faster, efficient, fun.

Also, I like to make fun of dumbfucks sometimes, but i have other things to do in life also. But keep writing, you look more butthurt with each post.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah the story companions are ass.

 

[The_Mask]

I prefer just tank baddies and destroy them at range. Faster, efficient, fun.

How does this make sense?

 

[Bloodeyes]

Do you need arcane casters in your party? What is the advantage in giving a slot to them that could go to a cleric? Arcane casters can buff, sure but they can't fight at all. Clerics can buff, heal and kind of fight. So they're better right? I'm used to using wizards in other games where you can turn off friendly fire and they are pretty good there, but it seems like most of their spells target friendlies as well which seems to greatly limit their usefulness. Clerics who channel negative energy, however, can do AOE damage without hurting their own party thanks to selective channel so even though they don't seem to deal much damage with this they can actually use it more so its better. Clerics are the best caster class right?

Playing with a three man party of Cleric, Rogue, Fighter with the XP set to active characters seems like it would be viable, maybe even optimal. Thoughts on this?

 

[Lacrymas]

I dream of the day arcane spellcasters would be obsolete, but I doubt that's the case in Kingmaker.

 

[NJClaw]

Do you need arcane casters in your party?

Bards are arcane casters and they are one of the strongest, most noob-friendly classes in the game. With the Lingering Performance feat you can basically have an active song every single round for the entire game, and you can also activate more songs at the same time. Keep in mind that the songs in this game are amazing: Inspire Courage gives an increasing bonus on attack and damage rolls, Inspire Competence allows you to reliably succeed skill checks, Fascinate is an always ready AoE save-or-suck, Dirge of Doom is an incredible no-save debuff (-2 to attack rolls and saving throws) that enables one of the strongest feats in the game (Shatter Defenses), Inspire Heroics gives a massive +4 to saving throws and armor class (there are three more songs, but these alone would be enough to justify adding a Bard to your group).

On top of their songs, bards have access to game-changing spells like Grease, Cacophonous Call, Heroism, Glitterdust, Good Hope, Haste, Slow, Mass Feather Step, Mass Cacophonous Call. Seriously, they can win an encounter with a single spell.

If you care about fighting in melee, they can use light armor and shields, and have the same BAB of a cleric. They don't have access to Archon's Aura, but they can use Mirror Image, Displacement, Echolocation, and Brilliant Inspiration.

If you are only talking about wizards and sorcerers, their spells (usually) simply have a bigger impact than those of a cleric. If you care that much about fighting capabilities, you can go for a Sylvan Sorcerer with a smilodon as animal companion, or you can use the Eldritch Knight prestige class with a Wizard/Fighter or a Sorcerer/Paladin.

 

[Whisper]

Do you need arcane casters in your party? What is the advantage in giving a slot to them that could go to a cleric? Arcane casters can buff, sure but they can't fight at all. Clerics can buff, heal and kind of fight. So they're better right? I'm used to using wizards in other games where you can turn off friendly fire and they are pretty good there, but it seems like most of their spells target friendlies as well which seems to greatly limit their usefulness. Clerics who channel negative energy, however, can do AOE damage without hurting their own party thanks to selective channel so even though they don't seem to deal much damage with this they can actually use it more so its better. Clerics are the best caster class right?

Playing with a three man party of Cleric, Rogue, Fighter with the XP set to active characters seems like it would be viable, maybe even optimal. Thoughts on this?

Arcane casters do not need to pass AC checks for most spells. They also ignore resistances with right spells.

You need to play on Unfair to understand how important is to actually reliably (with 100% chance) to hit enemies.

 

[Elex]

There are at least 6 different DM's in Pathfinder: Kingmaker, from "Story" to "Unfair". And if a particular tabletopper wants to emulate his table top especially close s/he can enable the "Last Azlanti" mode.

That’s not a DM

the game is a Solo RPG with no DM where the player control all the characters, and just read the adventure step by step with no adaptation or modification.

 

[RK47]

If you really think Arcane classes are not up to your standard. just give Sylvan Sorcerer a try.
Pretend you are a Giant Centipede with a slave sorceress behind your back.

 

[Xamenos]

Do you need arcane casters in your party? What is the advantage in giving a slot to them that could go to a cleric? Arcane casters can buff, sure but they can't fight at all. Clerics can buff, heal and kind of fight. So they're better right? I'm used to using wizards in other games where you can turn off friendly fire and they are pretty good there, but it seems like most of their spells target friendlies as well which seems to greatly limit their usefulness. Clerics who channel negative energy, however, can do AOE damage without hurting their own party thanks to selective channel so even though they don't seem to deal much damage with this they can actually use it more so its better. Clerics are the best caster class right?

Playing with a three man party of Cleric, Rogue, Fighter with the XP set to active characters seems like it would be viable, maybe even optimal. Thoughts on this?

Arcane buffs are so much better than Divine buffs it's not even funny. You'll sorely miss not having access to stuff like Heroism, Haste, Displacement, Mirror Image, etc. It doesn't matter at all that a wizard can't fight by himself. The party is a machine that outputs death, each character is a different cog in that machine, and the arcane caster is the guy that makes it a well-oiled machine instead of a rusty one.

 

[NJClaw]

It doesn't matter at all that a wizard can't fight by himself.

An Eldritch Knight can fight by himself, though, and he loses only 2 caster levels.

 

[Thac0]

Ok Thun and Yosh, here's a Trad Monk (Motherless Tiefling very good fit here) build with Pummeling Charge, Bully, and Pounce (so good with Monk because your enhanced speed increases Charge/Pounce range and straight Monks get Pounce nice and early at level nine):

View attachment 14402

Check out that unequipped, unbuffed speed! +16 Will is very good, but you really miss all the good ki-powers. Abundant Step can be nice strategically, but when you can Pounce 90 feet who needs it?

Base Monk:

View attachment 14403

Five less Will (six at lvl 20 I'd imagine) is a significant ding. Ki Power : Restoration is just such a nice convenience/slot saver, and of course all the quasi spells are very solid and fill gaps/add flexibility (Barkskin, True Strike, Spit Venom, Shout). Spit Venom for things like Big Bokken that are hard to hit otherwise, Shout for groups of foes w/ low Fortitude (like Ghosts and Hunt). Can also pick up the free Spell Resistance and Quivering Palm late.

So if you just want to Pounce around alot and assassinate casters and archers the Trad is good (can still escape as necessary with Abundant Step), while if you want something more flexible at the cost of godly Will saves go base Monk.

Sorry if it was asked already, the thread is too long to check. Where is that Thun Tiefling art from? I want that for my Druid when I do my turn based run.
Also is the game stable already? Finished Wasteland 3, and I am itching for the next rpg. Heard the official turn based patch brouhgt the usual slew of bugs with it.

 

[Desiderius]

From the Nexus portrait mod. It’s too big to directly load so you just download it and move the ones you want into the portrait folder.

 

[Desiderius]

Latest edition has been working fine for me unmodded.

 

[Desiderius]

I will own you all night.

Surrender.

Got your "strategy". Playing on Story. Than switch to Unfair and use like 15+ buffs per 1 (one) fight and than 10+ debuffs per 1 (one) enemy, and after dozen of reloads call it a "win".

I prefer just tank baddies and destroy them at range. Faster, efficient, fun.

Also, I like to make fun of dumbfucks sometimes, but i have other things to do in life also. But keep writing, you look more butthurt with each post.

I still see no screenshots, and you seem awfully interested in this difficulty switching tactic. When I’m blowing out everything on Unfair with long-lasting or infinite use buffs and abilities why would I need to?

They’re all there for anyone to see if it weren’t too painful for you to look.

Reload? Lol. Is that another confession? Why would I need to reload when I'm winning rolls by fifty?

And yes I also use the debuffs the game gives me to win fights. Isn’t that what the game is about? If you played competently you could save them for the big fights too. Since all of my toons do solid damage I don’t need to blow them on trash fights.

 

[Desiderius]

It doesn't matter at all that a wizard can't fight by himself.

An Eldritch Knight can fight by himself, though, and he loses only 2 caster levels.

With the equipment and group buffs in this game even a straight up caster can fight by herself.

For the benefit of Whispertard:

+4 DEX from equipment
Good Hope is 3rd level Bard group buff that is min/lvl
Inspire Courage is Bard song (Bards can sing + cast/fight simultaneously but WoWtards haven't figured that out yet)
Haste is 3rd level Arcane rand/lvl with rod to extend
Freebooter abilities are infinite use (Amiri makes a great one)
Necklace available from Capital vendor
Javelin and Bracer from lvl 3/6 of Depths DLC

Bewildering Injury is from Rogue 4 (She's R4/W3/AT4 in this shot), but you can still do this as straight up caster.

I'd recommend fighting with spells on big fights and weapons on trash fights to save your spells. By midgame you can go mostly spells if you prefer that but weapons are viable.

 

[Xamenos]

he loses only 2 caster levels.

There is no such thing as losing "only" 2 caster levels. Any loss of caster levels is unacceptable for a primary caster. If you want to hit things in melee, be a Magus and explode enemies with Shocking Grasp. If you want to do wizard things, be a pure wizard (or alchemist). Trying to do everything with a single character just leaves you spread too thin.

 

[Desiderius]

Whisper's incredulity and babbling about buffs and debuffs is a prefect illustration of the damage InEffect has done.

If the game is played well as designed even Unfair eventually becomes routine. But InEffect bullies people into only using the abilities and tactics they remember from WoW so they end up playing a game far more difficult than P:K played merely as designed, missing out on what makes P:K great.

 

[Desiderius]

he loses only 2 caster levels.

There is no such thing as losing "only" 2 caster levels. Any loss of caster levels is unacceptable for a primary caster. If you want to hit things in melee, be a Magus and explode enemies with Shocking Grasp. If you want to do wizard things, be a pure wizard (or alchemist). Trying to do everything with a single character just leaves you spread too thin.

Beating saves (and resistances) on high difficulties takes a very focused effort.

 

[Desiderius]

Do you need arcane casters in your party? What is the advantage in giving a slot to them that could go to a cleric? Arcane casters can buff, sure but they can't fight at all. Clerics can buff, heal and kind of fight. So they're better right? I'm used to using wizards in other games where you can turn off friendly fire and they are pretty good there, but it seems like most of their spells target friendlies as well which seems to greatly limit their usefulness. Clerics who channel negative energy, however, can do AOE damage without hurting their own party thanks to selective channel so even though they don't seem to deal much damage with this they can actually use it more so its better. Clerics are the best caster class right?

Playing with a three man party of Cleric, Rogue, Fighter with the XP set to active characters seems like it would be viable, maybe even optimal. Thoughts on this?

Play six man until you're destroying that on Unfair Tinman. The fun of the game is the synergy between the classes. I like to have a Bard, Alchemist, Freebooter, and Cleric, with two slots where you can swap in companions for their quests or for tasks that match their strengths (Harrim gets a big bonus vs Giants for instance). Having a fast spell progression arcane class is nice to get access to the big spells early and beat saves on higher difficulties.

 

[razvedchiki]

An Eldritch Knight can fight by himself, though, and he loses only 2 caster levels.

would you say a human empyreal sorceror, for the will saves, is a good pick for an eldritch knight?
otherwise which class/race combination offers the most spell/slots/melee capability?

 

[Whisper]

With the equipment and group buffs in this game even a straight up caster can fight by herself.

View attachment 14424

For the benefit of Whispertard:

+4 DEX from equipment
Good Hope is 3rd level Bard group buff that is min/lvl
Inspire Courage is Bard song (Bards can sing + cast/fight simultaneously but WoWtards haven't figured that out yet)
Haste is 3rd level Arcane rand/lvl with rod to extend
Freebooter abilities are infinite use (Amiri makes a great one)
Necklace available from Capital vendor
Javelin and Bracer from lvl 3/6 of Depths DLC

Bewildering Injury is from Rogue 4 (She's R4/W3/AT4 in this shot), but you can still do this as straight up caster.

I'd recommend fighting with spells on big fights and weapons on trash fights to save your spells. By midgame you can go mostly spells if you prefer that but weapons are viable.

All that effort and prebuff for 38 damage. Wow. Impressive.

Regognar with 21 damage is not lousy, either.