Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Sykar]

With the equipment and group buffs in this game even a straight up caster can fight by herself.

View attachment 14424

For the benefit of Whispertard:

+4 DEX from equipment
Good Hope is 3rd level Bard group buff that is min/lvl
Inspire Courage is Bard song (Bards can sing + cast/fight simultaneously but WoWtards haven't figured that out yet)
Haste is 3rd level Arcane rand/lvl with rod to extend
Freebooter abilities are infinite use (Amiri makes a great one)
Necklace available from Capital vendor
Javelin and Bracer from lvl 3/6 of Depths DLC

Bewildering Injury is from Rogue 4 (She's R4/W3/AT4 in this shot), but you can still do this as straight up caster.

I'd recommend fighting with spells on big fights and weapons on trash fights to save your spells. By midgame you can go mostly spells if you prefer that but weapons are viable.

All that effort and prebuff for 38 damage. Wow. Impressive.

Regognar with 21 damage is not lousy, either.

That is out of 4 attacks and it was the 3rd attack. 4*38= 152 damage, not too shabby for a wizard.

 

[Desiderius]

All that effort and prebuff for 38 damage. Wow. Impressive.

WHAT effort, you total retard?

There is exactly one prebuff in that pic - Haste. If you're not using Haste for boss fights what are you even doing?

That is the whole point. You're making up all this imaginary effort to cover for the glaring flaws of your chosen hero.

You chose poorly.

 

[Desiderius]

The 21 damage is from Frigid Touch which has a no save Stagger attached, as can be seen in the pic. The back half of the Spellstrike hasn't happened yet. You can see directly above that what that looks like. Which you would know if you knew how to play the game. Are you the one difficulty switching?

As I said, I can own you all day and night.

Stop beclowning yourself.

 

[Desiderius]

That is out of 4 attacks and it was the 3rd attack. 4*38= 152 damage, not too shabby for a wizard.

Thx, that's the point. Weapons turn on iteratives and extra attacks from Haste, Rapid Shot, etc...

Pure caster you could unload a spell here but it may not even do that much damage and you obviously don't need to target Touch AC when you're owning regular. I usually go with disabling spells for Boss fights and weapons for regular, with some exceptions.

 

[LannTheStupid]

the game is a Solo RPG with no DM where the player control all the characters, and just read the adventure step by step with no adaptation or modification.

"Adaptation or modification" for what? For when your beer drinkers are too hangover to count past 10? Or for your black municipal school students who don't even know that it is possible to count past 10?

If you want "adaptation" then change the difficulty. If you want to learn the system without a DM who simplifies the encounter - then play a solo RPG.

Unfair Tinman

What is "Tinman"?

 

[Technomancer]

There is no such thing as losing "only" 2 caster levels. Any loss of caster levels is unacceptable for a primary caster. If you want to hit things in melee, be a Magus and explode enemies with Shocking Grasp. If you want to do wizard things, be a pure wizard (or alchemist). Trying to do everything with a single character just leaves you spread too thin.

Well there are not so many spells that scale to full 20 levels or have uncapped scaling like few necro spells. You can compensate lost caster levels with some items and spell spec.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Desiderius also, how can you damage a troll who is immune to fire with a pure fire spell?

 

[Desiderius]

There is no such thing as losing "only" 2 caster levels. Any loss of caster levels is unacceptable for a primary caster. If you want to hit things in melee, be a Magus and explode enemies with Shocking Grasp. If you want to do wizard things, be a pure wizard (or alchemist). Trying to do everything with a single character just leaves you spread too thin.

Well there are not so many spells that scale to full 20 levels or have uncapped scaling like few necro spells. You can compensate lost caster levels with some items and spell spec.

Not as easy as it looks. I've been converted to the pure caster camp if you're trying to beat saves, which you don't necessarily even need to do. First playthrough I just ended up casting Dispel, Greater with Linzi/Val as my only offensive spell.

Tinman is Ironman with reloads because who has time for Ironman on a 120 hour game.

You can do things like end your session before any reload. You play with maximum precautions like Ironman but make a save a chapter in case you want to go back to try a different approach. Rangers get a res so you end up rezzing a good bit.

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius also, how can you damage a troll who is immune to fire with a pure fire spell?

It's only half fire. I chose poorly and was rewarded.

 

[Technomancer]

Not as easy as it looks. I've been converted to the pure caster camp if you're trying to beat saves, which you don't necessarily even need to do. First playthrough I just ended up casting Dispel, Greater with Linzi/Val as my only offensive spell.

I'm playing 40+ DC necro specialist sorc rn. I'm collecting my last items and approaching spawn soon. So far it was not so fun as I believed. Both Vordekai and Armag were immune to death effects. Hope spawn at least will check out my death clutch.

The 18 CL AT merс I made is much more powerful and broken.

 

[Technomancer]

First playthrough I just ended up casting Dispel, Greater with Linzi/Val as my only offensive spell.

When I searched for items I spotted 2 items that boost dispel by 8. I wonder if it works with dispel strike rogue has and if you can make some sort of build around this. Or maybe with Unmaker ring? "Each round the first attack this ring's wearer makes using an unarmed strike or natural weapon, casts the great dispel magic spell."

 

[Desiderius]

Not as easy as it looks. I've been converted to the pure caster camp if you're trying to beat saves, which you don't necessarily even need to do. First playthrough I just ended up casting Dispel, Greater with Linzi/Val as my only offensive spell.

I'm playing 40+ DC necro specialist sorc rn. I'm collecting my last items and approaching spawn soon. So far it was not so fun as I believed. Both Vordekai and Armag were immune to death effects. Hope spawn at least will check out my death clutch.

The 18 CL AT merk I made is much more powerful and broken.

Yeah, when you hit Surprise Spells you fire up the nukage.

The Dispelling Strike bug was just fixed on the latest release. Unfortunately it also dispels debuffs, so you'd have to design your playthrough around it, but theoretically it could be insane. That was the idea behind my TWF ranged Slayer playthrough.

 

[RK47]

Went in there at level 11.

That was funny.
The only thing that can hit the level 20 boss inside was Ekundayo's Quarry boosted attack

 

[Xamenos]

Well there are not so many spells that scale to full 20 levels or have uncapped scaling like few necro spells. You can compensate lost caster levels with some items and spell spec.

Yes, you can compensate lost caster levels for spell effects that scale with caster level. You can never compensate getting fewer spells per day, getting them later than a full caster, and having to spend those fewer, lower-level spells so you can stand in melee with your robe and whack enemies with a piece of metal. Not to mention allocating attribute points to things other than Intelligence, and picking Fighter feats instead of things like Spell Focus, Element Focus, metamagic etc. The drawbacks may still be worth it (An Arcane Trickster is an incredibly powerful ranged attacker), but the resulting character simply cannot fill the same spot in the party as a full caster.

All that effort and prebuff for 38 damage. Wow. Impressive.

Regognar with 21 damage is not lousy, either.

It is very odd you agreed with me that arcane buffs are the oil to a party's machinery when you seem to hold even the most basic of them in such disdain.

 

[Yosharian]

he loses only 2 caster levels.

There is no such thing as losing "only" 2 caster levels. Any loss of caster levels is unacceptable for a primary caster. If you want to hit things in melee, be a Magus and explode enemies with Shocking Grasp. If you want to do wizard things, be a pure wizard (or alchemist). Trying to do everything with a single character just leaves you spread too thin.

Eldritch Knight is so bad.

 

[Desiderius]

he loses only 2 caster levels.

There is no such thing as losing "only" 2 caster levels. Any loss of caster levels is unacceptable for a primary caster. If you want to hit things in melee, be a Magus and explode enemies with Shocking Grasp. If you want to do wizard things, be a pure wizard (or alchemist). Trying to do everything with a single character just leaves you spread too thin.

Eldritch Knight is so bad.

It’s the most boring class, but fast spell progression + full BAB is never bad.

 

[Sykar]

he loses only 2 caster levels.

There is no such thing as losing "only" 2 caster levels. Any loss of caster levels is unacceptable for a primary caster. If you want to hit things in melee, be a Magus and explode enemies with Shocking Grasp. If you want to do wizard things, be a pure wizard (or alchemist). Trying to do everything with a single character just leaves you spread too thin.

Eldritch Knight is so bad.

It's ok but people underestimate the delay. Pure wizard hits those sweet spell levels so much sooner and it is much appreciated. I would go EK only if I feel I need more melee damage.

 

[NJClaw]

he loses only 2 caster levels.

There is no such thing as losing "only" 2 caster levels. Any loss of caster levels is unacceptable for a primary caster. If you want to hit things in melee, be a Magus and explode enemies with Shocking Grasp. If you want to do wizard things, be a pure wizard (or alchemist). Trying to do everything with a single character just leaves you spread too thin.

Eldritch Knight is so bad.

It's worse than most of the alternatives, but almost nothing classes-wise is "bad" in this game. I finished a hard -> unfair playthrough with a Paladin/Sorcerer/EK as MC and most important character in the group, so it can't be THAT bad.

 

[Desiderius]

You can take Martial Prof as a feat and only be one caster lvl behind.

Main problem is making action economy as good as the alternatives but full BAB gets you there by midgame. Still not really a fan, though being in melee puts you in good position for cones and rays that don’t need to beat every save.

My jihad against InEffect started when he told a little kid to make Linzi an EK, which is wrong on like five levels.

 

[Xamenos]

It's worse than most of the alternatives, but almost nothing classes-wise is "bad" in this game. I finished a hard -> unfair playthrough with a Paladin/Sorcerer/EK as MC and most important character in the group, so it can't be THAT bad.

I would say that "something is bad" is the exact same statement as "it is worse than the alternatives". Nothing can be considered bad in a vacuum without anything to compare it to.

My jihad against InEffect started when he told a little kid to make Linzi an EK, which is wrong on like five levels.

His insistence on making Linzi a slightly better damage dealer with a fucking crossbow says anything that needs to be said about him and his builds.

 

[Delterius]

Arcane casters can buff

Crowd Control.

 

[NJClaw]

I would say that "something is bad" is the exact same statement as "it is worse than the alternatives". Nothing can be considered bad in a vacuum without anything to compare it to.

I read "bad" as "non viable", not "worse than the best options". With EK you still have a character with very high BAB and a spells progression comparable to an Arcane Trickster. A Magus is more straightforward, but with an EK you are still able to reach 7th, 8th and 9th level spells.

A Sorcerer 3/Wizard 2/Cleric 2/Druid 2/Magus 3/Rogue 1/Alchemist 1/Bard 1/Monk 1/Ranger 1/Kineticist 3 is bad. A Druid 10/Wizard 10 is bad. A Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 10/Whatever +5 is just suboptimal, but you still get a very strong character.

 

[LannTheStupid]

There is an outstanding Russian youtuber who built a character of 8th (or 7th?) level with 0 BAB to discourage reckless multiclassing. It was fun to watch.

 

[Desiderius]

You have to be able to cast 8th level spells to get Frightful Aspect, which is the best melee self-buff in the game and only fast progression toons (like EK with wiz/sorc base) get it, so you can still end up dominant with EK. It's the only full BAB class that can do this.

For me it's just boring more than anything.

InEffect's build was so bad on the benefit side because Linzi's base class doesn't even get fast spell progression so his EK levels don't either.

 

[Desiderius]

If you work at it you can do fine damage on Linzi with a xbow (InEffect can't because he doesn't know how to buff/debuff or use Deadly Aim so he destroys builds for a couple unreliable sneaks), it's just that EK levels don't buy you much over Bard levels in doing so.