Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Xamenos]

I would say that "something is bad" is the exact same statement as "it is worse than the alternatives". Nothing can be considered bad in a vacuum without anything to compare it to.

I read "bad" as "non viable", not "worse than the best options". With EK you still have a character with very high BAB and a spells progression comparable to an Arcane Trickster. A Magus is more straightforward, but with an EK you are still able to reach 7th, 8th and 9th level spells.

A Sorcerer 3/Wizard 2/Cleric 2/Druid 2/Magus 3/Rogue 1/Alchemist 1/Bard 1/Monk 1/Ranger 1/Kineticist 3 is bad. A Druid 10/Wizard 10 is bad. A Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 10/Whatever +5 is just suboptimal, but you still get a very strong character.

For me "non-viable" is separate from "bad", but I see your point now and I can't disagree.

 

[Desiderius]

WTF am I reading x 2
pm_675Jarpie

A discussion of the relative merits of EK along with a mention of InEffect, a player who spammed all the early forums with his builds and bullied/convinced people to play in a way that turned out to be substantially worse than just using the companions auto-leveled.

It was non-obvious enough that many of us wasted countless hours missing out on 80% of the game, and many of those quit before they ever got a chance to play the game as designed. He probably accounted for 10% of the negative ratings the game received single-handedly.

In a nutshell, he designed every build as a solo build and neglected the strongest tactics in the game: group buffs and debuffs, many long-lasting and passive.

 

[Technomancer]

There is an outstanding Russian youtuber who built a character of 8th (or 7th?) level with 0 BAB to discourage reckless multiclassing. It was fun to watch.

Do share.

 

[Jarpie]

WTF am I reading x 2
pm_675Jarpie

A discussion of the relative merits of EK along with a mention of InEffect, a player who spammed all the early forums with his builds and bullied/convinced people to play in a way that turned out to be substantially worse than just using the companions auto-leveled.

It was non-obvious enough that many of us wasted countless hours missing out on 80% of the game, and many of those quit before they ever got a chance to play the game as designed. He probably accounted for 10% of the negative ratings the game received single-handedly.

In a nutshell, he designed every build as a solo build and neglected the strongest tactics in the game: group buffs and debuffs, many long-lasting and passive.

so in other words, InEffect is a fucking retarded turbo autist, good thing I never paid attention to him.

 

[Desiderius]

An Eldritch Knight can fight by himself, though, and he loses only 2 caster levels.

would you say a human empyreal sorceror, for the will saves, is a good pick for an eldritch knight?
otherwise which class/race combination offers the most spell/slots/melee capability?

Should be solid. Sorcs take an extra level to get to third level spells compared with Wizards.

Only EK I've played is Octavia R4/Wiz5/AD1/EK10 modded (CotW) so she could use Dirty Trick to replace an attack instead of a Standard Action and get Dirty Trick and Greater Dirty Trick as Rogue Talents. There's also a Feat which gives you INT to CM, so she could reliably Blind (and/or Sicken or Entagle) anything, and another Feat that gives you back a lost caster level. Greater Focus Transmutation made her Slows (best spell in the game) land reasonably well too. Was fun and generally powerful since she could tank with Mirror Image and Uncanny Dodge.

Here's a variant using Sword Saint:

 

[Desiderius]

InEffect is a fucking retarded turbo autist, good thing I never paid attention to him.

If he weren't AMOGing everyone all the time he wouldn't be so bad. If you want to solo the game he's definitely worth reading. He's just awful for a beginner in every way. It was his poor attitude with Roahin, who had some great thematic builds, which also soured a lot of people on him. Roahin is great for beginners.

https://af.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/companion_builds/page1?as=1649904300

It's kind of unfortunate that many of the best players waited until the bugs were ironed out to play the game so InEffect had the game to himself on release.

I didn't play until five months in, and I'm not a powergamer. This is just the first game that rewarded me (a little too much) for how I've always traditionally played - always using a Bard, always covering all my skills, RPing to a reasonable extent including using companions, not minmaxxing, etc... InEffect is the opposite so he's playing a game two difficulty levels higher than everybody else so feels like he has to game every inch to survive.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I shall post random statuses to all Desiderius posts until he stops answering to statuses.

 

[razvedchiki]

Do share.

does his name start from N?

 

[Sharpedge]

he loses only 2 caster levels.

There is no such thing as losing "only" 2 caster levels. Any loss of caster levels is unacceptable for a primary caster. If you want to hit things in melee, be a Magus and explode enemies with Shocking Grasp. If you want to do wizard things, be a pure wizard (or alchemist). Trying to do everything with a single character just leaves you spread too thin.

Eldritch Knight is so bad.

I wouldn't call it bad, just worse than some alternatives. EK is fun to play and is unfair viable, so its just "not as good as something else."

 

[Whisper]

That is out of 4 attacks and it was the 3rd attack. 4*38= 152 damage, not too shabby for a wizard.

IF all 4 attacks would hit - which wouldnt happen.

Or you can do 152 dmg reliably without wasting time/spell slots on miriad of buffs/debuffs. Just by casting spell, you know. Octavia has them.

 

[Whisper]

Thx, that's the point. Weapons turn on iteratives and extra attacks from Haste, Rapid Shot, etc...

Pure caster you could unload a spell here but it may not even do that much damage and you obviously don't need to target Touch AC when you're owning regular. I usually go with disabling spells for Boss fights and weapons for regular, with some exceptions.

View attachment 14426

I know that you play mainly on story mode, being clown as you are, but a lot good spells dont need touch check to hit. Like chain lighting for example. Oh, and they do good damage.

 

[Whisper]

Desiderius also, how can you damage a troll who is immune to fire with a pure fire spell?

Trolls are not immune to fire, they have protection, which absorbs limited amount of damage. I actually killed trolls with fire, takes two casts instead of 1 from ranged caster team.

 

[Whisper]

her Slows (best spell in the game)

Once i think you already said most fucking retarded thing you, you outdo yourself.

If Slow is best spell in game, you should really stop playing on Storymode and examine spell list.

 

[Delterius]

It doesn't matter at all that a wizard can't fight by himself.

An Eldritch Knight can fight by himself, though, and he loses only 2 caster levels.

play a Sylvan Sorcerer

+ thematically appropriate

+ comes with a cool ass animal companion that can tank and fight

+ full arcane caster levels

+ can summon hamadryads and nymphs for harem purposes

+ high charisma, basically a chad thundercock of the woods

 

[razvedchiki]

can summon hamadryads and nymphs for harem purposes

arent those ranged summons?

 

[LannTheStupid]

play a Sylvan Sorcerer

Aren't INT based Evil classes have more gear to boost INT and, consequently, DC?

I want to play a high performance autist incel who wants to sleep with the nymph. On Unfair.

 

[Desiderius]

her Slows (best spell in the game)

Once i think you already said most fucking retarded thing you, you outdo yourself.

If Slow is best spell in game, you should really stop playing on Storymode and examine spell list.

Have you tried doing anything while Staggered?

AoE and nothing is immune.

Do you ever do anything but point and sputter and console yourself with Story Mode fantasies?

 

[Delterius]

Aren't INT based Evil classes have more gear to boost INT and, consequently, DC?

well, sure

but chaotic neutral characters get statues of nymphs

and b r o t h e l s

storywise its the real min-max choice tbqh

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius also, how can you damage a troll who is immune to fire with a pure fire spell?

Trolls are not immune to fire, they have protection, which absorbs limited amount of damage. I actually killed trolls with fire, takes two casts instead of 1 from ranged caster team.

You have to be a masochist at this point to continue to beclown yourself this bad in public.

The full immunity is right there on the screen. All damage getting thru is Unholy.

Misbegotten Troll is 100% immune to Fire, as I discovered the hard(?) way.

To all the victims of anti-bullying programs who are reading along: condescending to your superiors doesn’t work.

 

[LannTheStupid]

yes but chaotic neutral characters get statues of nymphs and brothels in their kingdom

I prefer brothels and stocks. I'll see what the statue is.

 

[Technomancer]

Aren't INT based Evil classes have more gear to boost INT and, consequently, DC?

Ironically that is true for all but the evilest guy in the room - the DC necrosorc.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Ironically that is true for all but the evilest guy in the room - the DC necrosorc.

That's too complicated for me to comprehend. Pray tell.

 

[Desiderius]

That is out of 4 attacks and it was the 3rd attack. 4*38= 152 damage, not too shabby for a wizard.

IF all 4 attacks would hit - which wouldnt happen.

Or you can do 152 dmg reliably without wasting time/spell slots on miriad of buffs/debuffs. Just by casting spell, you know. Octavia has them.

Why wouldn’t they? The AB is higher than the AC. Can you read?

Myriad = 1?

we already went over this. All the buffs are in your head. This is an autoattack and it outdamages her spells through most of the game because I know how to use a Bard and Freebooter while you’re still playing WoW.

Against Bokken I use spells. Here not necessary.

 

[Yosharian]

Early game primary casters are far better off using Daze and the like than they are shooting a crossbow, and later on it will make almost no difference.

 

[Desiderius]

Thx, that's the point. Weapons turn on iteratives and extra attacks from Haste, Rapid Shot, etc...

Pure caster you could unload a spell here but it may not even do that much damage and you obviously don't need to target Touch AC when you're owning regular. I usually go with disabling spells for Boss fights and weapons for regular, with some exceptions.

View attachment 14426

I know that you play mainly on story mode, being clown as you are, but a lot good spells dont need touch check to hit. Like chain lighting for example. Oh, and they do good damage.

Octavia uses Ray spells (which need a touch check - are you seriously having trouble even hitting Touch AC?) to turn on her Sneaks, which is the whole point of being an AT. Have ever actually played this game?

Also Chain Lightning for a single target? 60 damage max?