Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Is there a reason to choose sage sorcerer over regular sorcerer with arcane bloodlin other than wanting an int based class?

More skill points. In that way, I consider Sage Sorcerer strictly superior between the two.

 

[Üstad]

Is there a reason to choose sage sorcerer over regular sorcerer with arcane bloodlin other than wanting an int based class?

More skill points. In that way, I consider Sage Sorcerer strictly superior between the two.

So no more spells per day or anything? I'm considering respecializing jaethal into sorcerer I still can't decide on which subclass to choose.

Spoiler about chapter 3

Spoiler

I have finished main quest in chapter 3 burn the everblooming plant and fucked the namashatu cult up, there are no main quests anymore yet the curse timer is still intact, am I doing something wrong or can I use that around 200 days to build up my kingdom?

 

[Desiderius]

Is there any point to the region upgrades that say "this has no effect"?

Keep waiting for someone to try that out and report back.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Is there any point to the region upgrades that say "this has no effect"?

Yes. Do you want details?

Yes please

 

[Desiderius]

Is there a reason to choose sage sorcerer over regular sorcerer with arcane bloodlin other than wanting an int based class?

More skill points. In that way, I consider Sage Sorcerer strictly superior between the two.

Depends on the Bloodline. Also handy for MC to be CHR-based. Let’s you use Demoralize when not casting.

 

[The_Mask]

Yes please

Any region upgrade counts for your artisan's tiers. Also there are shenanigans you can work towards your advantage if an upgrade is a military one or a non-military one.
It is a bit unfortunate when your choices lead to an upgrade that is underwhelming, but... just call it experimenting and try different stuff on your next playthrough.

 

[Üstad]

Is there a reason to choose sage sorcerer over regular sorcerer with arcane bloodlin other than wanting an int based class?

More skill points. In that way, I consider Sage Sorcerer strictly superior between the two.

Depends on the Bloodline. Also handy for MC to be CHR-based. Let’s you use Demoralize when not casting.

Which bloodline would be good on jaethal?

 

[Trashos]

Weird that people deny themselves legitimate spells and strategies. Stinking Cloud isn't like Imprisonment from BG2 where nearly nothing could defend against it. Fortitude Save or vomit for a round. Lots of things in this game have very high fortitude saves, least of which is a war camp full of mid-level raging barbarians. This encounter is not particularly hard even without it. Despite many other CCs being gimped by allowing a save every round, there is still a wealth of options. Cloak of Dreams, Archons's Aura, Mind-Fog and it's a veritable Heaven's Gate part deux. Ever bother using the coup de gras ability? Protection from Arrows alone is going to give you enough breathing room to ignore half of the opponents.

You either try to get good at the game or you try to take advantage of programming errors and limitations. That's what I say.
If opponents are not immune to the cloud effect (eg, poison) and they are not running to get out of the cloud, it means that Owlcat couldn't program proper AI behavior (be it due to time constraints or anything else, although I think I can guess why programming this part is difficult). And since there is no proper AI behavior, it is cheese.

Now, I have only tried those clouds on Challenging some time ago, I dismissed them as great cheese, and I do not know if AI behavior has changed since or whether it changes with difficulty. But as things stood... No.

That said, it is your game and you can play it as you want to.

 

[Haplo]

Weird that people deny themselves legitimate spells and strategies. Stinking Cloud isn't like Imprisonment from BG2 where nearly nothing could defend against it. Fortitude Save or vomit for a round. Lots of things in this game have very high fortitude saves, least of which is a war camp full of mid-level raging barbarians. This encounter is not particularly hard even without it. Despite many other CCs being gimped by allowing a save every round, there is still a wealth of options. Cloak of Dreams, Archons's Aura, Mind-Fog and it's a veritable Heaven's Gate part deux. Ever bother using the coup de gras ability? Protection from Arrows alone is going to give you enough breathing room to ignore half of the opponents.

...and Phantasmal Web

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Weird that people deny themselves legitimate spells and strategies. Stinking Cloud isn't like Imprisonment from BG2 where nearly nothing could defend against it. Fortitude Save or vomit for a round. Lots of things in this game have very high fortitude saves, least of which is a war camp full of mid-level raging barbarians. This encounter is not particularly hard even without it. Despite many other CCs being gimped by allowing a save every round, there is still a wealth of options. Cloak of Dreams, Archons's Aura, Mind-Fog and it's a veritable Heaven's Gate part deux. Ever bother using the coup de gras ability? Protection from Arrows alone is going to give you enough breathing room to ignore half of the opponents.

I was just trolling.

However, I think you are selling stinking cloud a little short -- it's 1d4+1 rounds even after they leave. And it's pretty easy to keep them from leaving, so they will have to make a saving throw every round. So the action economy compared to most other CC spells is really good. Many enemies, having to make a check for many rounds, and it sticks once they fail. Compare the economy of that to a save or suck CC that only targets one opponent. I'm not even exaggerating when I say it could be like 30 times as efficient (6+ enemies getting tested for CC 5+ rounds). You can manipulate the DC with heighten spell, cloud kill, and any of the generic effects. Plus Conjuration has great tools so you aren't cringing at the spell focus.

And you can stand in the middle of it. Really, it's almost like a bardic performance.

It's really an epic spell.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Archon's Aura and Cloak of Dreams are great spells but I don't think they are as potent. Archon's Aura's effect is not as bad and if they succeed they are immune to that instance.

Cloak of Dreams will keep testing them, but it's only a 5ft point blank effect with friendly fire challenges IIRC. Stinking cloud is a 20ft cloud that can be cast safely from medium range. In practice, it usually leads to more targets and earlier in the fight.

Luckily we can use all of this crap at once! So none of this really matters, heh.

I should try Phantasmal Web again.

 

[Desiderius]

I basically don’t use persistent effects aside from the occasional pit, and I still end up falling in myself half the time. Runs up against too many limitations of the system.

 

[Desiderius]

Archon's Aura and Cloak of Dreams are great spells but I don't think they are as potent. Archon's Aura's effect is not as bad and if they succeed they are immune to that instance.

Cloak of Dreams will keep testing them, but it's only a 5ft point blank effect with friendly fire challenges IIRC. Stinking cloud is a 20ft cloud that can be cast safely from medium range. In practice, it usually leads to more targets and earlier in the fight.

Luckily we can use all of this crap at once! So none of this really matters, heh.

I should try Phantasmal Web again.

Slow is enemies only. Main threat is the Sisters in any case.

 

[Desiderius]

Is there a reason to choose sage sorcerer over regular sorcerer with arcane bloodlin other than wanting an int based class?

More skill points. In that way, I consider Sage Sorcerer strictly superior between the two.

Depends on the Bloodline. Also handy for MC to be CHR-based. Let’s you use Demoralize when not casting.

Which bloodline would be good on jaethal?

Try several and see which one you like. That’s the fun of the game. I only bring her in for certain situations so I’d pick the one that fit those (probably Undead). Although you can get +4 INT Profane from Cepheus’ staff so keep that in mind. I think I played her as a Necro Wiz once.

She’s great as an Inquisitor if you spam Divine Favor/Power since they’re Luck and Judgements are Sacred. Everything stacks.

 

[Desiderius]

What's the bigger coping mechanic:
- Summons and pets
- Stinking Cloud + Delay Poison

Trashos, what say ye

It is tactics for bads like Desiderius

InEffect is the Stinking Cloud sniffer. He necroed a Hargulka thread on Steam yesterday (I have to go there for Wrath Alpha) to tell the little kids to Stinking Cloud Hargulka.

Because of the Pathfinding (heh) issues pets and summons aren’t as good as they look. They’re a fine tactical option. I’ve had them burn me with Cleaving Zombie Giants.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

There is also the cloak of souls which is a good fit for her since the con penalty is meaningless (I think).

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Cleric of Asmodeus There is nothing wrong with having good spells. People seem to think it a crime. The real crime is that most CC in Pathfinder allow the victim to end the effect every round. Wizards only have a few tricks per day, DCs are narrowly overcome, then it gets shrugged off in a round. Stinking Cloud is good, but how good gets exaggerated by comparison to other spells got nerf'ed in 3.5E.

Seriously play around with Cloak of Dreams though. You haven't experienced the game fully until you see gentle Tristian do the rage animation before slitting a helpless throat. Its even more rewarding on something big. All that HP for nothing.

 

[Desiderius]

You’ve got plenty of spells by midgame.

Good rule of thumb: If you’re kiting, you’re missing the point.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Why attack the strongest save of Hargulka with Stinking Cloud when you can attack the weakest with Cacophonous Call?

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

What can I say, I like big numbers

 

[bec de corbin]

Is there a reason to choose sage sorcerer over regular sorcerer with arcane bloodlin other than wanting an int based class?

More skill points. In that way, I consider Sage Sorcerer strictly superior between the two.

So no more spells per day or anything? I'm considering respecializing jaethal into sorcerer I still can't decide on which subclass to choose.

Spoiler about chapter 3

Spoiler

I have finished main quest in chapter 3 burn the everblooming plant and fucked the namashatu cult up, there are no main quests anymore yet the curse timer is still intact, am I doing something wrong or can I use that around 200 days to build up my kingdom?

I don't specifically remember if there's anything left in Chapter 3 after that, but I finished several chapter plots with a lot of time to spare, yeah. It's a good time to do any upgrades or purchases you need to be at home for.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Is there a reason to choose sage sorcerer over regular sorcerer with arcane bloodlin other than wanting an int based class?

More skill points. In that way, I consider Sage Sorcerer strictly superior between the two.

So no more spells per day or anything? I'm considering respecializing jaethal into sorcerer I still can't decide on which subclass to choose.

Spoiler about chapter 3

Spoiler

I have finished main quest in chapter 3 burn the everblooming plant and fucked the namashatu cult up, there are no main quests anymore yet the curse timer is still intact, am I doing something wrong or can I use that around 200 days to build up my kingdom?

I don't specifically remember if there's anything left in Chapter 3 after that, but I finished several chapter plots with a lot of time to spare, yeah. It's a good time to do any upgrades or purchases you need to be at home for.

The gap between the Bloom/ Chapter 3 and the next is perhaps one of the bigger ones for the whole game, somewhat of a pacebreaker compared to what comes before and after.

In general, just screw around on Kingdom Management (there are lot of time skips there), do artisan quest when they pop up. If you got Beneath the Stolen Land, now is a very good time to explore that place.

A lot of my firends who play KM are just lost upon finishing the Bloom due to the same reason. Time that was tight (but forgiving before) are now aplenty with no clear direction on what to do.

 

[bec de corbin]

There's also a huge gap of time around chapter 5, I remember that.

 

[Desiderius]

Is there a reason to choose sage sorcerer over regular sorcerer with arcane bloodlin other than wanting an int based class?

More skill points. In that way, I consider Sage Sorcerer strictly superior between the two.

So no more spells per day or anything? I'm considering respecializing jaethal into sorcerer I still can't decide on which subclass to choose.

Spoiler about chapter 3

Spoiler

I have finished main quest in chapter 3 burn the everblooming plant and fucked the namashatu cult up, there are no main quests anymore yet the curse timer is still intact, am I doing something wrong or can I use that around 200 days to build up my kingdom?

I don't specifically remember if there's anything left in Chapter 3 after that, but I finished several chapter plots with a lot of time to spare, yeah. It's a good time to do any upgrades or purchases you need to be at home for.

The gap between the Bloom/ Chapter 3 and the next is perhaps one of the bigger ones for the whole game, somewhat of a pacebreaker compared to what comes before and after.

In general, just screw around on Kingdom Management (there are lot of time skips there), do artisan quest when they pop up. If you got Beneath the Stolen Land, now is a very good time to explore that place.

A lot of my firends who play KM are just lost upon finishing the Bloom due to the same reason. Time that was tight (but forgiving before) are now aplenty with no clear direction on what to do.

In general the more time you’re skipping the better you’re doing, so those are the parts of the game where you’re really making progress. You get through the other stuff in as little time as possible so you can advance your kingdom with the rest.

 

[Haplo]

Cleric of Asmodeus There is nothing wrong with having good spells. People seem to think it a crime. The real crime is that most CC in Pathfinder allow the victim to end the effect every round. Wizards only have a few tricks per day, DCs are narrowly overcome, then it gets shrugged off in a round. Stinking Cloud is good, but how good gets exaggerated by comparison to other spells got nerf'ed in 3.5E.

Don't use Enchantment so much and you won't have that problem?

Seriously play around with Cloak of Dreams though. You haven't experienced the game fully until you see gentle Tristian do the rage animation before slitting a helpless throat. Its even more rewarding on something big. All that HP for nothing.

Tried it once or twice. Really not a fan of putting half of my own party to sleep for enemies to effortlessly murder.