Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

So, is this game fully playable yet, meaning can you play it to the end without it turning into a complete bugfest? Also for next gameplay: TB or RtwP?

Play it in turn-based and switch to real-time for trash mobs (in some dungeons there's a lot of them).

There are no trash mobs. Part of the challenge is figuring out how many resources to spend and how much risk to take with each fight then improving on that the next playthrough vis superior tactics.

 

[bec de corbin]

There's not much risk to take in those big fights with tons of zombies in the Tomb considering they pose almost zero threat, and not too many interesting choices to make either. Might as well do it in realtime.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I do not understand where you guys find all that "free" time within the game. Don't you have advisors to rank up? The only "free" time I get is before HATEOT, when all the advisors are already tier X.

Efficient travel is key, and chapters leading up to the Bloom are going to be critical here. My first game suffered tremendously from having low STR/CON caster party that needed frequent rest, even with the special meals. Other than that, it's pretty simple. Start your tasks, plot an efficient course to clear areas while they progress. Finishing the main quest of the chapter early helps a lot, as it reduces the amount of problem cards you have to respond to. Rushing IV arcane is also highly valuable. I very casually just finished Season of Bloom, and I have around 180 days left till the next Bald Hilltop event. The world is my oyster at this point. My biggest issue is burning BP for some redundant buildings to so I can hustle up on my relations stat before Varnhold.

 

[Trashos]

My biggest issue is burning BP for some redundant buildings to so I can hustle up on my relations stat before Varnhold.

My point is that you do not have free time until all your advisors are tier 10. And they aren't. So you don't.

I am probably going to make a guide for ranking up advisors at some point. But currently I haven't even researched whether such a guide already exists.

 

[Xamenos]

My biggest issue is burning BP for some redundant buildings to so I can hustle up on my relations stat before Varnhold.

My point is that you do not have free time until all your advisors are tier 10. And they aren't. So you don't.

Yeah, most people don't realize they should budget time for ranking up the kingdom and consider the time after they finish each chapter's main quest "free". I suspect this is related to most people's failure to develop it and take advantage of what their kingdom provides.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Yep. Totally. Game loop seems to be "you will be rewarded for being efficient with your time in questing by having more cycles to upgrade advisors and projects, which will reward you with artisanal bad ass loot." I think it's actually really novel for a D&D game because it makes it sort of x-comish in that your goal is no longer to just succeed at the mission -- you get rewarded for how efficiently you did it, too. Not everyone's cup of tea but it's not "pointless."

I sometimes wonder if some of the FUD around the kingdom management is due to people not understanding this incentive yet. Some of the complaints are totally unrelated and valid, certainly, but I've heard an occasional "the kingdom management is completely disconnected from my party" and I think that's strictly not true given the phat loot you get from getting your artisans hustling.

 

[Haplo]

Haplo It's not just Enchantment. Illusion spells like Phantasmal Web & Putrefaction both allow will and fortitude saves to end each round. Conjuration is pretty much the only spell school that isn't gimped.

Although, it seems pretty clear you guys don't really dig wizards. My first play run had a team full of high Will classes. Made some things more difficult, but allowed other strategies I enjoyed--like using cloak of dreams. Also if you rush to teleporters, you're also rushing to the project that makes you immune to compulsions on your land. Very powerful.

Phantasmal Web only allows saves to avoid the nausea every round. After the initial failed save, the enemies are immobilized regardless. Even with good Fort, it sucks to be melee....

And I actually enjoy wizards here. Particularly Conjuration focused Arcane Tricksters...

 

[Desiderius]

Hit level 12, tried to murder lich in the barrows, still die instantly to Wail of the Banshee, even with all buffs.

Do Clerics not have turn-undead as a natural or selective ability like in Baldur's Gate?

The trick is to disable him before he casts Wail. I suggest VineTrap. Chains of Light would also work well, but is one spell level higher. Ice Prison might work.
Btw. Blade Barrier does good damage to him. For that reason I tend to bring 2 clerics for this fight (and 1 mage to conjure a pit where the guardians will fall).

Beat that skinny ass down. Do the quest as designed and he dies before he gets anything off. As an added bonus you don’t make all equipment obsolete for the next six levels.

 

[Desiderius]

Haplo It's not just Enchantment. Illusion spells like Phantasmal Web & Putrefaction both allow will and fortitude saves to end each round. Conjuration is pretty much the only spell school that isn't gimped.

Although, it seems pretty clear you guys don't really dig wizards. My first play run had a team full of high Will classes. Made some things more difficult, but allowed other strategies I enjoyed--like using cloak of dreams. Also if you rush to teleporters, you're also rushing to the project that makes you immune to compulsions on your land. Very powerful.

Phantasmal Web only allows saves to avoid the nausea every round. After the initial failed save, the enemies are immobilized regardless. Even with good Fort, it sucks to be melee....

And I actually enjoy wizards here. Particularly Conjuration focused Arcane Tricksters...

definitely seeing some Illusionist love so far in Wrath.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Glad to hear about Illusion in WotR. It has always been my favorite spell school. It being well provided for in BG2 is one of the reasons it has been my favorite CRPG. It's a long shot, but I'm deeply hoping they correct the Shadow Conjuration/Evocation spells to handle any appropriate spell under their level--rather than the limited set list.

Owlcat is truly doing The Great Work. Let's hope they don't lose themselves like their predecessors did.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Xamenos That feels a bit like semantics. You're out questing while problems and opportunities are resolved. Sane applies to kingdom upgrades. Advisors get ranked with the time left over--IE: free time. If you're trying to rank up any other time, you're doing it wrong. There will be moments when its useful to rank before you tackle the chapter quest, in in general, that's for afterward.

 

[Desiderius]

You rank up/acquire regions until you absolutely have to do something else.

Why was I immune to Compulsions by mid ch. 3, letting spam Mind Fog and Crushing Despair and Confusion everywhere?

Because I ranked up like a madman. Poor Helllknights.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Getting the artisans cooking in their meth labs as soon as possible is the goal of any good kingdom

 

[smaug]

Hit level 12, tried to murder lich in the barrows, still die instantly to Wail of the Banshee, even with all buffs.

Do Clerics not have turn-undead as a natural or selective ability like in Baldur's Gate?

The trick is to disable him before he casts Wail. I suggest VineTrap. Chains of Light would also work well, but is one spell level higher. Ice Prison might work.
Btw. Blade Barrier does good damage to him. For that reason I tend to bring 2 clerics for this fight (and 1 mage to conjure a pit where the guardians will fall).

Beat that skinny ass down. Do the quest as designed and he dies before he gets anything off. As an added bonus you don’t make all equipment obsolete for the next six levels.

No, he has good gear and I want it now.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Desiderius Each chapter has some "lead time" that you can play with, but the truth is that the longer you postpone the chapter quest, the more frequent and more severe the problems occur.

After clearing the Stag Lord, immediately clearing the nalmarches and then silver lake while you aquire enough points in Loyalty and community opens two regions right away which accerlates the rate of acquisition for the other two. By the time you aquire Kamelands and North Narlmarches, the entire accessible map will be conquered with like 150 days to optimally advance your kingdom.

I too have teleporters everywhere and immunities mid Bloom. Tackling the main quests quickly lowers the diversions for advisors, which lets you slingshot forward significantly. Its good to do that as soon as the first problem hits, since that's when your advisors get committed elsewhere. Its simply more efficient.

 

[Trashos]

I generally agree that it is efficient to tackle the main quest quickly. That is what I do myself, but with the asterisk that allowing more "main quest Problems" to appear can theoretically lead to faster advisor rank ups. So I 'd understand if someone might prefer to do that instead.

 

[Sykar]

Desiderius did you see the Magaambyan Initiate Arcanist archetype with one of the lastest CotW mods? It lets you chose a druid/good cleric spell at every level, so up to 20 druid/cleric spells which are effectively always prepared but cost 1/2 spell level reservoir points and you can still get 6 exploits. This might be a really good alternative to Mystic Theurge since you retain your full caster progression while getting a really broad spell selection with one noticeable caveat that you probably have to either use Extra Reservoir feat maybe even more than once or make good use of Consume Magic. Oh and you have to be of good alignment.

 

[Bigfass]

No, he has good gear and I want it now.

You can loot the chest and GTFO without activating him. You're not meant to beat him at level 12, and surely the +8 hat he drops isn't worth the hassle?

 

[Haplo]

No, he has good gear and I want it now.

You can loot the chest and GTFO without activating him. You're not meant to beat him at level 12, and surely the +8 hat he drops isn't worth the hassle?

Now that's kinda cheating for in my book. If I can beat him (without cheating), then I have the right to be there.
If I cannot and just use some exploits to steal his stuff and GTFO, well, I don't like the sound of that.

 

[Technomancer]

If I cannot and just use some exploits to steal his stuff and GTFO, well, I don't like the sound of that.

You're already using exploits by just getting there. I don't get this selective exploiting. Steal his shit and put it on you at least before the fight.

 

[Haplo]

Breaking in there might have been an option planned by the devs, otherwise they would have patched it long ago. Note how when you teleport there is some debris that funnels your characters along a narrow passage, where moving the whole party is difficult. Again, the layout kinda feels intentional.

When I meat a strong enemy, I want to be able to beat him, not sacrifice a character to rob him or hide in a corner and slowly sap his hps without making him aware of my presence.

TL DR
Getting in there early = Smart
Stealing from the lich and running away = Cowardly

 

[Technomancer]

otherwise they would have patched it long ago

 

[panda]

No, he has good gear and I want it now.

You're not meant to beat him at level 12

Lvl 11 Wizard can solo him easily. May be harder to disable him with Octavia + cleric if you don't have specialized Evo wizard, but even then hardly impossible.
I personally did it(MC was Sorc though, but it hardly matters) at the start of my glorious "1000+ single target spell dmg" challenge run. Before hunt event IIRC.

Even Lvl 9 Wizard will do with patiance, though it is pain to kite&kill skeletons without Acid Fog.

 

[Desiderius]

No, he has good gear and I want it now.

You can loot the chest and GTFO without activating him. You're not meant to beat him at level 12, and surely the +8 hat he drops isn't worth the hassle?

Now that's kinda cheating for in my book. If I can beat him (without cheating), then I have the right to be there.
If I cannot and just use some exploits to steal his stuff and GTFO, well, I don't like the sound of that.

Only Linnorms deserve that kind of treatment.

 

[Whisper]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/2803982773090602746/#c2803982773094952455

"Um, NO. Actually, there IS a way not to give out your name to the soul eaters. A secret and quite hard way, though. Search for it. An acquisitive mind can find a small tip to it in Willas Gunderson's journal."

:thinking:

Where to find this journal?