Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Lawntoilet]

I never said that "STR is better". My point is that STR builds have it much better than DEX builds in terms of weapon focusing options.

IIRC Bastard Swords have exactly one hole (from +2 to +4) and Longswords have none. But this is from memory and I could be wrong. It does not matter, they are generally easy to focus on. (I focus Valerie on Bastards and Jaethal on Longswords, both tanks)

Focusing is an option in the game with a lot of upsides (all the feats that are based on it), and it can be done for some weapons and not for others. It just so happens that there is a large variety of good STR weapons to focus on, while there are few DEX weapons for which focusing makes sense. This imbalance is my main point. It is a design mistake, afaic. The game needed more DEX weapons that players could focus on.

I won't bring up any STR weapon. I did mention good STR weapon focuses before, and still you guys prefer to try to win the debate like sophists, instead of searching for the truth. I can't help you with that.

If you are planning to focus on one weapon then your problem is solved by taking literally one feat, Slashing Grace.
This is like how Str builds have to take Improved Initiative to get good Initiative like Dex builds get. It is not an unfair state of affairs.

 

[Trashos]

f you are planning to focus on one weapon then your problem is solved by taking literally one feat, Slashing Grace.

Assume that I already got Slashing Grace (or Fencing or whatever, doesn't matter). Now, what are my options as a DEX build? Do I have many options for focusing? I don't, that's the problem.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

IMO, just allow yourself to use the respec option that is in the game and enjoy the items you find au natural. The respec option quickly starts to cost 100k gold so it's not like you can abuse it between every encounter. I think that obsessively studying the weapon distribution and using that metagame knowledge is probably just as bad and less fun, sooooo

 

[Lawntoilet]

f you are planning to focus on one weapon then your problem is solved by taking literally one feat, Slashing Grace.

Assume that I already got Slashing Grace (or Fencing or whatever, doesn't matter). Now, what are my options as a DEX build? Do I have many options for focusing? I don't, that's the problem.

You have just as many options as a Str build who focused on that weapon (Longsword, scimitar, falcata, bastard sword, whatever).
If you don't want to focus on a specific weapon, then use whatever best Dex weapon you find (like the punching dagger Desiderius posted), but you indicated that you were interested in focusing on a weapon.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Path 1:
- Researching google sheets and building a complete understanding of which weapon drops where, towards the goal of being able to use a single weapon type throughout the whole game

Path 2:
- Just dive right in, using what you find, and use the respec option periodically. Experience the world. Seize the day and moment and outflank.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

If you win the game without using the respec option, your award is a spinning top and a shiny piece of tin foil to stare at. Congrats!

 

[razvedchiki]

Assume that I already got Slashing Grace (or Fencing or whatever, doesn't matter). Now, what are my options as a DEX build? Do I have many options for focusing? I don't, that's the problem.

there are dueling swords/rapiers/estocs worth speccing in. depending on class you may not care if you find an upgraded version every 5 mins.

 

[Trashos]

- Just dive right in, using what you find, and use the respec option periodically. Experience the world. Seize the day and moment and outflank.

I am Lawful, not Chaotic.

You have just as many options as a Str build who focused on that weapon

No, I don't. Listen, guys, you have to look into the weapon listings and find out which weapons got love. Until you do that, this conversation will just go in circles.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

I want to demonstrate my mastery of this game, so I shall NOT use the respec option. Instead, I will leverage my vast abilities to google which weapons appear in each chapter like a true bad ass

 

[Delterius]

Last time I used their respec option all my skill focuses and such feats stopped doubling after X ranks. Kinda fucked tbh.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Glibness aside, I'm being sincere though, you might have more fun!

 

[Lawntoilet]

You have just as many options as a Str build who focused on that weapon

No, I don't. Listen, guys, you have to look into the weapon listings and find out which weapons got love. Until you do that, this conversation will just go in circles.

Yes, you do - key words, who focused on that weapon.
You cannot use every Str weapon as well as a Str build (perfectly sensible) but you can use a longsword or falcata just as well as a Str build who focused on a longsword or falcata (ignoring enlarges, etc) if you have Slashing Grace.
Maybe the conversation is going in circles because you don't realize what your options even are.

 

[Trashos]

Assume that I already got Slashing Grace (or Fencing or whatever, doesn't matter). Now, what are my options as a DEX build? Do I have many options for focusing? I don't, that's the problem.

there are dueling swords/rapiers/estocs worth speccing in. depending on class you may not care if you find an upgraded version every 5 mins.

Dueling Swords YES (also a STR weapon, mind you)

Rapiers MEH (acceptable, but not comparable to the goodies STR gets. Not great.)

Estocs .... Haplo also mentioned them. I do not see it myself from the listngs. I do not think it is comparable to the STR choices, although I have never used it.

I want to demonstrate my mastery of this game, so I shall NOT use the respec option. Instead, I will leverage my vast abilities to google which weapons appear in each chapter like a true bad ass

YES! Kinda. It is not for demonstrating purposes. That's my strategy for improving.

 

[Trashos]

Maybe the conversation is going in circles because you don't realize what your options even are.

Hmmm.... Don't I lose all the to-hit-chance from my DEX?

 

[Lawntoilet]

Maybe the conversation is going in circles because you don't realize what your options even are.

Hmmm.... Don't I lose all the to-hit-chance from my DEX?

In PnP I think so, but jn Kingmaker Slashing Grace makes your Slashing Grace weapon finessable (unless that's changed since I last played a Dex build but I doubt it).

 

[Trashos]

Oh fuck. I am off to check whether Slashing Grace retains to-hit-chance from DEX for non-finessable weapons. I will probably have to run the experiment.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Oh fuck. I am off to check whether Slashing Grace retains to-hit-chance from DEX for non-finessable weapons. I will probably have to run the experiment.

Let me know if it still works. If not I retract my suggestion of it, and go fuck myself.
If it does still work though then I do neither of those.

 

[Desiderius]

Jesus, just use daggers.

you guys are playing a game that doesn’t exist instead of the one that does. The little pluses on the weapon pale in comparison to both the bonuses you get elsewhere to those numbers and the unique effects you get from the weapons themselves.

You’re also stuck in the rut of way overvaluing the benefit from sticking to one weapon (if you’re lusting for Shatter just guess and if you guess wrong you’ve only lost one AB). By the time Improved Crit is a thing you’ll know what you have.

The original context that got Trash worked up was Dueling Swords where ironically the drawback isn’t the numbers (you get a +2 at the end of chapter one and two different +3 in ch 4 including Keen) it’s the blah abilities, though Keen saves you the feat where you’re tight.

If you want to go DEX use Dueling one-handed, daggers two-handed, and best available if you don’t care about Weapon Focus which you shouldn’t. In no case is there a lack of options.

 

[Shadenuat]

I go sleep they argue dex I wake up they still argue dex.

Tis game made me want to burn all PnP players with lazors from eyes but I dont have.

The little pluses on the weapon pale in comparison to both the bonuses you get elsewhere to those numbers and the unique effects you get from the weapons themselves

dis. your bard is still stronger than your weapon.

If it was for me, I'd just remove all exotic weapons from the game. And some normie weapons too. And made a more interesting progression for weapons with more quests and narrative.

Weapon abilities never was D&D strong forte. 1 more damage, 5 average damage, or 4 average damage, better crit, worse crit, big crit, frequent crit fuck who cares about this shit. Reach is probably only fun thing that mechanically fun.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Reach rules everything around me

 

[Trashos]

Lawntoilet, and whoever else is interested. Lawntoilet (and Haplo) was right, the Slashing/Fencing Grace feat adds DEX bonus to both Attack Roll and Damage of non-finessable weapons. Lawntoilet, you do not have to go fuck yourself after all! Thank you, this was important information, and I have no clue how I was supposed to know about it.

Here are the experiments:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...sable-weapons-with-dex-the-experiment.135365/

 

[Shadenuat]

 

[LannTheStupid]

Weapon abilities never was D&D strong forte. 1 more damage, 5 average damage, or 4 average damage, better crit, worse crit, big crit, frequent crit fuck who cares about this shit.

Pillars of Eternity tried to solve this with soulbound weapons. If I remember kickstarter pledges correctly, something like this will be implemented in WotR. IMHO this is how the problem of unexciting weapons should be solved. It should bring up memories of Moorcock's Stormbringer and Mournblade and not petty squabbles over +1 attack boni.

 

[Shadenuat]

There is 1 thing Sawyer imo did ok and that is making a compact selection of weapons with different bonuses and types of damage (crushing/piercing). It all ended up with dual wielding sabres (at least for a while) but idea to consolidate it all into smaller weapon pool and make them do something "realistic" was alright. I also like weapon focus (peasant) etc.

The problem with soulbound weapons was that, just like with craftable weapons, it was systemic and you shouldn't categorise magic weapons like that. To upgrade Sawyer paladin sword players need to kill some of their guys and res them. That's not how I would make a holy sword.

 

[Lawntoilet]

I have no clue how I was supposed to know about it.

Appreciate the update and I am glad they I need not go fuck myself.
I agree it is not worded clearly - "treat this weapon as a one-handed piercing weapon" means you have to look up how that interacts with Finesse, etc. and the fact that it's been stated not to work in PnP complicates the issue further.
I hope that you now have fun with a Dex build!