Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[InD_ImaginE]

I won't go writing here all the cool STR weapon focuses and weapons. It is boring work, and the only thing that is going to come out of it is that you are all going to hate me for proving all of you wrong.

You can do it yourselves, however. Nothing is stopping you.

It is actual bad design that some weapons you can specialize in are traps with zero useful or effective weapons. Not that Kingmaker's the only D&D rpg that has this problem, mind.

Good thing that isn’t the case. It is absolutely not the case in Wrath. Wish I could show you this light hammer I just found.

Yeah Wrath Alpha tries hard to give Exotic and even non-exotic weapons to have more variety/options instead of KM. Need to fork some moolah because a lot of them are sold in shops, but it is better than nothing.

 

[The_Mask]

Daggers.

Any other choice for DEX?

Punching Daggers.
Rapiers.
Star Knives.
Kamas.
Sais.

All of them have decent ways of shining. Like... I mean, if you're asking for a weapon for every single permutation of primary class/secondary class(es)/race in the game, you're going to have a bad time. And it's obviously one of the weaknesses of the game, but you can find and buy a correspondent +? for your appropriate level. I see them in shops.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Kukris are weak at the top end.

It's all good. I'm using two keen kukris and Nok Nok gets to pick a second and third type of finesse weapon.

 

[Desiderius]

Daggers.

Any other choice for DEX?

Punching Daggers.
Rapiers.
Star Knives.
Kamas.
Sais.

All of them have decent ways of shining. Like... I mean, if you're asking for a weapon for every single permutation of primary class/secondary class(es)/race in the game, you're going to have a bad time. And it's obviously one of the weaknesses of the game, but you can find and buy a correspondent +? for your appropriate level. I see them in shops.

It isn’t a weakness of the game, it has outstanding itemization, although the best is gated behind artisans so the most effective approach is not to tie yourself down to a certain weapon (the payoffs are weak) but some people are set in their ways and others like to complain.

 

[Trashos]

Punching Daggers.
Rapiers.
Star Knives.
Kamas.
Sais.

Punching Daggers: you are going to have to rely almost solely on the artisan. If you want the Masterpiece, you may not get the chance to ask for the +5 Punching Dagger, depending on how late the Masterpiece will arrive. Even if the Masterpiece has arrived and you request specifically a Punching Dagger, it is a crapshoot whether you will ever get the +5 one. More unique Punching Daggers had to be spread around in the world. Experienced players are not going to leave such a thing to chance. Not conceding this.

Rapiers disappointed me. My current playthrough is Rapiers (which I regretted). They could have used some more love (some immunity here, some bonus AC there, some bonus to saves, I don't know, something). You choose Rapiers for the great crit range, they have nothing else going on until HATEOT. I will label them as acceptable, though not great.

Starknives: Barely acceptable, and the only really good one is the +3 one.

Kamas: Unless the weapon listing I am looking at is incorrect, kamas have terrible progression.

Sais: same problems with Punching Daggers.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Dueling sword has bloodhound and ECB has bane of the living. Those seem pretty swank.

 

[Trashos]

Dueling Swords (note that they are both STR and DEX) are awesome. That's what I mentioned and all this conversation started.

 

[Technomancer]

Wish I could show you this light hammer I just found.

Why can't you?

 

[Desiderius]

Alpha testing NDA.

I will say that Trickster Mobility makes you go twice as fast w/Acrobatics on instead of half. Got that one wrong. The rest are even more insane. If you want to use Shatter (and everything is Evil Outsider not Undead so far) then Trickster will get it done.

 

[Desiderius]

Dueling Swords (note that they are both STR and DEX) are awesome. That's what I mentioned and all this conversation started.

No, you said that it is ok to swipe Bloodhound because DEX weaps were so poor. Then I mentioned the other Dueling Swords and you retreated into STR being better. You have yet to bring up any STR weapon. There are bigger holes in the Longsword/Greatsword/Bastard Sword progression than almost any DEX weapon.

Your problem is that you're prematurely/unreasonably choosing Weapon Focus before there is reason to do so. Often there is no reason to in the whole game.

 

[Desiderius]

Most people get Kama flooded from the Exotic Artisan. Here's a Punching Dagger:

Procs a Hellfire Ray on crits.

 

[Sykar]

Ok is the turn based mode from Owlcat that bugged? It regularly allows me only a 5 foot move action after a cast even though the spell´s casting time is "standard". Kinda annoying. The other way around works though this bug does not make a lick of sense.

 

[Haplo]

Sais: same problems with Punching Daggers.

Sais are actually kinda good if you want to stack a lot of attacks. The Greater Speed one is guaranteed and early. But they kinda pigeon hole you to multiclass with monk to get the most out of it.

 

[smaug]

Just killed the lich in barrows.

This gear, hory shet.

I won't use it till later (as intended), but I will take that shit ton of experience.

 

[Haplo]

Most people get Kama flooded from the Exotic Artisan. Here's a Punching Dagger:

View attachment 15546

Procs a Hellfire Ray on crits.

Yeah, that Punching dagger is pretty good. But before? Nada. Zilch.

Sadly I don't subscribe to the "don't focus on a specific weapon type" school of thought.
Because of Improved Critical - crits are huge in this game. Most top weapons aren't Keen.
Plus Weapon Focus is needed for Shatter Defences and that's one of the best feats (unless your class gets it from Combat Style).

I guess such weapon diversity works for non-SS maguses and Paladins, who can self enchant their arms.
Also classes who very strongly rely on sneak attack damage can somewhat neglect the critical chances.

 

[Desiderius]

But you can still hold off for awhile to see what you’re going to get before going all in on one weapon type. As P:K now exists Shatter has gone way down on my priority list. It’s not trivial to get things Shaken and I’m not doing much with iteratives in melee now. Damage is from Cleavebooter (gets Shatter via Combat style, Touch Bombs, and Natural attax and Ranged where Longbow doesn’t worry much about crits (Ekun has Aspect of Falcon).

 

[Desiderius]

Ok is the turn based mode from Owlcat that bugged? It regularly allows me only a 5 foot move action after a cast even though the spell´s casting time is "standard". Kinda annoying. The other way around works though this bug does not make a lick of sense.

Pretty sure that same thing happens real-time. Swift actions have always been kind of clunky too. Smoother in Wrath.

 

[Atlet]

sup,

so, i am starting pathfinder, and its pretty overwhelming, I am playing it while also reading concepts when I need to understand sth i dont know

never played pathfinder PnP ever,

i am playing a rogue

so, i think it makes sense, at level 2, weapon focusing on dagger (rogue talent), because rogues starts with weapon finesse, making them using their dex skill instead of str on attack rolls, right?

i mean, with weapon focus, i can get a +1 on attack rolls, getting even better stats with my dex

but, at the same time, i think i should focus on light crossbow and gettin finesse in swords at level 3, since they are martial and not simple, meaning i am adding a better weapon type then daggers, and using my dex instead of str

is my reasoning making sense?

 

[Atlet]

TLDR: i am planning on get weapon focus in light crossbow (level 2) and get short swords with the weapon finesse feat (level 3) using crossbow and dual swords with my rogue.

makes sense right?

 

[Desiderius]

sup,

so, i am starting pathfinder, and its pretty overwhelming, I am playing it while also reading concepts when I need to understand sth i dont know

never played pathfinder PnP ever,

i am playing a rogue

so, i think it makes sense, at level 2, weapon focusing on dagger (rogue talent), because rogues starts with weapon finesse, making them using their dex skill instead of str on attack rolls, right?

i mean, with weapon focus, i can get a +1 on attack rolls, getting even better stats with my dex

but, at the same time, i think i should focus on light crossbow and gettin finesse in swords at level 3, since they are martial and not simple, meaning i am adding a better weapon type then daggers, and using my dex instead of str

is my reasoning making sense?

Not yet.

 

[Desiderius]

TLDR: i am planning on get weapon focus in light crossbow (level 2) and get short swords with the weapon finesse feat (level 3) using crossbow and dual swords with my rogue.

makes sense right?

No, stick to melee. Ranged takes several feats to be effective. I’d start with two-weapon fighting and use a light weapon in your off-hand so you can double up on Sneak attacks and DEX to damage. Once you get DEX to damage Reduce Person is very good.

 

[Atlet]

So, weapon focus on dagger and weapon finesse training on short sword makes sense?

 

[Lawntoilet]

So, weapon focus on dagger and weapon finesse training on short sword makes sense?

I'd only get Focus on one weapon type and I would delay taking any Focus feats until you're later in the game and have a better idea of what the weapon selection is like.

 

[Trashos]

Sadly I don't subscribe to the "don't focus on a specific weapon type" school of thought.
Because of Improved Critical - crits are huge in this game. Most top weapons aren't Keen.
Plus Weapon Focus is needed for Shatter Defences and that's one of the best feats (unless your class gets it from Combat Style).

I guess such weapon diversity works for non-SS maguses and Paladins, who can self enchant their arms.
Also classes who very strongly rely on sneak attack damage can somewhat neglect the critical chances.

I agree perfectly.

No, you said that it is ok to swipe Bloodhound because DEX weaps were so poor. Then I mentioned the other Dueling Swords and you retreated into STR being better. You have yet to bring up any STR weapon. There are bigger holes in the Longsword/Greatsword/Bastard Sword progression than almost any DEX weapon.

That pic you posted has nothing to do with any of my arguments.

I have explained the problems with Punching Daggers in detail in the last page. Basically, you do not know whether you are going to have them and when. So Punching Daggers are not planning, they are gambling. It is not a serious move to focus on them or plan to focus on them.

I never said that "STR is better". My point is that STR builds have it much better than DEX builds in terms of weapon focusing options.

IIRC Bastard Swords have exactly one hole (from +2 to +4) and Longswords have none. But this is from memory and I could be wrong. It does not matter, they are generally easy to focus on. (I focus Valerie on Bastards and Jaethal on Longswords, both tanks)

Your problem is that you're prematurely/unreasonably choosing Weapon Focus before there is reason to do so. Often there is no reason to in the whole game.

Focusing is an option in the game with a lot of upsides (all the feats that are based on it), and it can be done for some weapons and not for others. It just so happens that there is a large variety of good STR weapons to focus on, while there are few DEX weapons for which focusing makes sense. This imbalance is my main point. It is a design mistake, afaic. The game needed more DEX weapons that players could focus on.

I won't bring up any STR weapon. I did mention good STR weapon focuses before, and still you guys prefer to try to win the debate like sophists, instead of searching for the truth. I can't help you with that.

 

[Lawntoilet]

I never said that "STR is better". My point is that STR builds have it much better than DEX builds in terms of weapon focusing options.

IIRC Bastard Swords have exactly one hole (from +2 to +4) and Longswords have none. But this is from memory and I could be wrong. It does not matter, they are generally easy to focus on. (I focus Valerie on Bastards and Jaethal on Longswords, both tanks)

Focusing is an option in the game with a lot of upsides (all the feats that are based on it), and it can be done for some weapons and not for others. It just so happens that there is a large variety of good STR weapons to focus on, while there are few DEX weapons for which focusing makes sense. This imbalance is my main point. It is a design mistake, afaic. The game needed more DEX weapons that players could focus on.

I won't bring up any STR weapon. I did mention good STR weapon focuses before, and still you guys prefer to try to win the debate like sophists, instead of searching for the truth. I can't help you with that.

If you are planning to focus on one weapon then your problem is solved by taking literally one feat, Slashing Grace.
This is like how Str builds have to take Improved Initiative to get good Initiative like Dex builds get. It is not an unfair state of affairs.