Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Sounds like he’s setting up perfectly for the ECB build. Elf gives you the two stats you need and some free Spell Pen. The Martial Prof is required for EK so you can use them without a Feat. There’s a Keen +1 early ch 2. Of course the crazy one available at end of Ch. 4.

I’d go Diviner for the sick abilities. You can fill up School Slots with Extended and/or Quickened True Strike/Sense Vitals and use your free Wiz feats for the Metamagic.

 

[Trashos]

Yes, Elven Curve Blades could make sense. They are going to need an earlier Fencing Grace though, as far as I can see. And if I am not a human, then I am going to be lacking one more feat. Of course it is a legit choice, but my Wizards are always feat starved and personally I go for the feats.

Diviner

Not an option for thassilonians, unfortunately. But in the general case, I agree that their abilities are sick.
(I am not married to the idea of being a thassilonian, btw. I am just kinda trying to test how helpful his extra spell slots can be).

weapons with range

Yes, I use those for Amiri in Ch1 (while I wait for Reggie to become tankier), and sometimes for Reggie too. Still, this won't help my Color Spray efforts. And unless there is a bottleneck, many enemies go for the 2nd line, it is not very rare. I play pseudo-ironman (counting number of deaths), so it is kinda important to me that my MC doesn't have a big "Attack ME!" neon sign on his head.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

This has been something I have been wondering: Does the MC draw more aggression in general? And, do we have a general sense of the algorithm enemies use to determine threats?

For example, in my current play through, my MC is a slayer and Amiri is a pounce Barb booter, and the enemies always seem to target my MC over Amiri even when he has a 4-5 AC advantage. I’ve been theorizing that maybe it’s the pinch of DR Amiri has? Or maybe his lower max hp? The latter could be interesting to manipulate with false life and aid and the like.

Or, maybe I’m just perceiving things conveniently since I will more likely notice when my MC is getting fuxxored.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Trashos The problem with your approach is the same as with software development before unit tests and "agile development". Your iterations are too long to let you come to useful conclusions about the builds.

So if you're that interested in build porno then go Beneath the Stolen Lands. This is one way to test the builds fast. The other way - up the difficulty to Unfair and go until the first rest at Oleg's. This is a nice way to weed out builds that cannot survive the first 5 levels.

What do you do? You construct the build, discuss it on the forums, spend some time with dumb people like me, then start playing the main game in earnest - and then reroll. You could have tested 3-4 builds during the time you're now spending on one.

 

[bec de corbin]

It used to be they just attacked whoever was closest. I don't know if that changed, but it resulted in a lot of dead Amiris for those not in the know because she's so much faster than everyone else and thus would always be targeted

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Trashos The problem with your approach is the same as with software development before unit tests and "agile development". Your iterations are too long to let you come to useful conclustions about the builds.

So if you're that interested in build porno then go Beneath the Stolen Lands. This is one way to test the builds fast. The other way - up the difficulty to Unfair and go until the first rest at Oleg's. This is a nice way to weed out builds that cannot survive the first 5 levels.

What do you do? You construct the build, discuss it on the forums, spend some time with dumb people like me, then start playing the main game in earnest - and then reroll. You could have tested 3-4 builds during the time you're now spending on one.

I know this is haram here, but what I do is have a few saves at key points in the game and then I just change things around with the respec mod for rapid prototyping. Can experiment extremely fast this way.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I know this is haram here, but what I do is have a few saves at key points in the game and then I just change things around with the respec mod for rapid prototyping. Can experiment extremely fast this way.

IMHO what you're doing is much better suited for the infinite DLC dungeon. But as I cannot kill you for this blasphemy, you do you.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

IMHO what you're doing is much better suited for the infinite DLC dungeon. But as I cannot kill you for this blasphemy, you do you.

I actually do this sometimes, too. If a class was totally alien to me like monks or kineticists then it was much easier for my smooth brain to adapt to their features by leveling them up from ground zero in the infinite dungeon. It’s pretty effective for this although the first few floors are so dull.

Edit: Also if you aren’t a Kingmakerologist and just want to get a taste of a few more classes, the Varnhold DLC campaign is pretty cool for that, too

 

[LannTheStupid]

If a class was totally alien to me like monks or kineticists then it was much easier for my smooth brain to adapt to their features by leveling them up from ground zero in the infinite dungeon.

This is a smart and reasonable approach.

Fortunately, I am dumb and not creative, so I am just using various GOG and Youtube builds for my main game. Builds are just not for me.

 

[Trashos]

Cleric of Asmodeus, few things I have noticed.
- proximity, AC play a role
- some enemies tend to go after magic users, WHEN magic is used (eg, dweomercats)
But I clearly do not have the full answer. Not sure if being the MC is part of the equation. Also, such things didn't happen much when I played on Challenging in the beginning. So either the AI changed at some point or it is difficulty-dependent too.

What do you do? You construct the build, discuss it on the forums, spend some time with dumb people like me, then start playing the main game in earnest - and then reroll. You could have tested 3-4 builds during the time you're now spending on one.

The build was surviving all right, but there seemed to be a lot of unnecessary risk. Anyway, the breaking point was the lack of transmutation buffs in certain points in the content, but I do not think that different content could let me see that. All the buffs would be available in the party eventually, the issue was at what point they become available.
I do not have much of a re-roll issue. But EKs are going to do that, especially since their selling point (to me) is that there are many ways to go about building them.

 

[The_Mask]

You could have tested 3-4 builds during the time you're now spending on one.

Oh no... he's having fun... call the police!

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

I’ve been considering installing Call of the Wild but I’m afraid that will turn into the Charlie conspiracy white board meme

 

[smaug]

Man, I am really disliking the munchkin design now, so many magical weapons nothing feels earned and most are useless (purely for money.). I know they have to compensate for so many weapon types but this feels like Diablo loot spam.

 

[The_Mask]

so many magical weapons nothing feels earned and most are useless (purely for money.)

Many of the issues in the last chapter scream money issues, and inexperience with late-game content. Just roll with it. No studio was born perfect, except maybe Troika or From Software.

If it makes you feel any better, chances are high they learned from their mistakes, and their next title has higher chances to be better.

 

[Trashos]

I didn't understand the "too much good loot" complaints for BG2, and I do not understand them here. But I too would have liked it better if there were less weapon types with more uniques each.

Anyway, kingdom management can be a money sink. If nothing else, Ch5 (and Ch6, if you want to go prepared) will make you want to spend money, so make sure you have some.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

It's nice not needing to haul every piece of trash in order to make money. I also like being able to spend all of that money on something that is productive. As an avid SIM and RTS fan as a child, the kingdom layer speaks to my sensibilities beyond that as well. I wish the advisors were a little more flexible, but otherwise its satisfying for me. Right now I just got back form Vordakai and have something like 350K. Mind you, I tend to spend all of my money on the kingdom, I just can't seem to do that quickly enough. I still have a bunch of times in the treasury that I'm not sure what I want to do with, but can sell if I'm pinched for cash.

 

[Desiderius]

I’ve been testing a Diviner in Depths, with CotW for fun, but the Knowledge is Power (INT to CMB) ability is too distracting, so he’s been just running around Blinding everybody with his Staff using Dirty Trick.

You get Dragonform I at lvl 11, which gives you four attax at Full BAB with one at -5. You can spend your Bonus Feats in Extend and Quicken Metamagic, giving you School Spells:

True Strike
True Strike (Extended - gives you two hits)
Sense Vitals (Extended)
See Invis, Communal (Extended)
True Strike (Quickened)
Sense Vitals (Quickened)
Sense Vitals (Quickened, Extented)
Prediction of Failure
Foresight

You can cast just fine in Dragon Form so just spam Vitals with your five Natural Attax and go off. Until then you can also cast in Elemental Form (but it doesn’t buy you much) or run around buffing things with your Touch of Good equivalent.

 

[Desiderius]

Results from Depths (Call of the Wild):

This is Eighth level Diviner ability. Main reason to play it. No Save, unaffected by Spell Resistance. You can even flip it into a Party buff vs bosses.

Straight up Diviner 10 Blinding shit in melee. Quickened True Strike + Knowledge is Power (can take as a Bonus Wiz Feat = INT to CMB).

So this was an Extended True Strike in action. First one Blinded him, then you get another hit at +20. Fills your Second Level Diviner Bonus Spell, with Extend Sense Vitals for Third Level

Can turn yourself into a Smilodon at level 9. Can't cast in that shape, but can always throw on an Extended Sense Vitals before polymorphing. You can cast in Dragon Form at lvl 11.

This is an Eccesitheurge of Shelyn using the Second Ability of Luck Domain. Charm Domain gives her a Swift Charm that works like butter in Wrath. Swift actions still a little clunky in P:K. CotW has a Feat that let's you go WIS to hit on Deity Weapon and Shelyn is Glaive so no need for Martial Proficiency either.

You can see in this shot the Arrowsong Minstrel Bard using her built-in Spellstrike. It's pretty cool. That 40 damage is Intensify Rod on Snowball.

 

[bec de corbin]

It's nice not needing to haul every piece of trash in order to make money. I also like being able to spend all of that money on something that is productive. As an avid SIM and RTS fan as a child, the kingdom layer speaks to my sensibilities beyond that as well. I wish the advisors were a little more flexible, but otherwise its satisfying for me. Right now I just got back form Vordakai and have something like 350K. Mind you, I tend to spend all of my money on the kingdom, I just can't seem to do that quickly enough. I still have a bunch of times in the treasury that I'm not sure what I want to do with, but can sell if I'm pinched for cash.

I do suggest having a fair amount of money on hand when chapter 5 starts up because you can buy some really good stuff.

 

[smaug]

I spent 150k on BP early on, I have not gotten to chapter 5 yet. I have 630k Gold.

 

[Trashos]

I have 630k Gold.

Save some more if you can, but you will be fine with that.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Yep. Huge money sinks incoming. You get to spend money like a king pretty soon

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

What are some cool archetypes I should check out with CotW? Exciting feats? I will probably try everything because I have a problem but some pointers on some of the more exciting stuff to get started with would be appreciated!

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Well, I’ve downloaded and installed Call of the Wild, Favored Classes, and Races Unleashed and have spent like 2 hours already fucking around in character creation without even starting the endless dungeon yet. I guess that’s a good thing? There are so many god damn classes and feats.

 

[Lawntoilet]

What are some cool archetypes I should check out with CotW? Exciting feats? I will probably try everything because I have a problem but some pointers on some of the more exciting stuff to get started with would be appreciated!

Oracle is pretty cool in Wrath of the Righteous, I think it is included with CotW.