Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Testownia]

Druid as a class in and of itself is highly disappointing, though. You're basically an accessory to your pet, not the other way around.

.... wat

If you disagree, post a good Druid build, where 90% of all the damage isn't done by the animal companion. And I don't mean just the end-game.

 

[Nano]

I had a lot of fun with my Blight Druid two years ago. No animal companion necessary.

 

[Testownia]

I just wish they'd fix the fucking gender bug, since it makes the game unplayable, and just further serves to highlight just how incompetent Owlcat is when it comes to basic programming. Even Skyrim didn't have such a basic feature broken.

Also, does anyone know of the existence of a "Core Rules Difficulty" mod, without all the artificial stat bloat, "magical" trip bonuses and other resistances, etc.?

 

[Desiderius]

Druid as a class in and of itself is highly disappointing, though. You're basically an accessory to your pet, not the other way around.

.... wat

If you disagree, post a good Druid build, where 90% of all the damage isn't done by the animal companion. And I don't mean just the end-game.

Druid 20 is solid, but in P:K you can’t really beat Defender of the True World 20, except with Blight Druid 20 and Feyspeaker 20.

Feyspeaker Val is the regular Dazzling Display/Demoralize tank with Mirror Image, a Smilo, and fast spell progression tacked on.

If you’re disappointed with that you’re beyond my help.

 

[Desiderius]

The stats aren’t bloated unless you try to beat the whole game with Grease, Magic Missile, and autoattack.

 

[Yosharian]

Druid as a class in and of itself is highly disappointing, though. You're basically an accessory to your pet, not the other way around.

.... wat

If you disagree, post a good Druid build, where 90% of all the damage isn't done by the animal companion. And I don't mean just the end-game.

Well your erroneous assumption there is perhaps that a character has to do physical damage in order to be effective?

Druids have a brilliant spell list including some unique spells and some arcane spells that Clerics don't get.

Creeping Doom, Sirocco, all the summoning spells which are better than the ones everyone else gets...

If we're purely talking physical damage then of course they do much less than the companion, but you never specified that in your original comment.

Wild Shape is more or less a role-playing / exploration tool originally which is why it's underwhelming, mostly, in KM.

If the Animal domain didn't exist they'd be a top tier class, because so many other classes can get pets when they shouldn't really be able to do by grabbing that domain that makes Druids a little weaker, but they're still a good class.

 

[Desiderius]

Transformation Magic in general is something for casters to do when they’re not casting. It’s an alternative way to get the equivalent of iteratives without needing the usual BAB. And natural attacks don’t depreciate in AB like iteratives do, which also makes up for the weak caster BAB progression.

Wild shaping just makes it more convenient.

 

[Testownia]

Druid as a class in and of itself is highly disappointing, though. You're basically an accessory to your pet, not the other way around.

.... wat

If you disagree, post a good Druid build, where 90% of all the damage isn't done by the animal companion. And I don't mean just the end-game.

Well your erroneous assumption there is perhaps that a character has to do physical damage in order to be effective?

Druids have a brilliant spell list including some unique spells and some arcane spells that Clerics don't get.

Creeping Doom, Sirocco, all the summoning spells which are better than the ones everyone else gets...

If we're purely talking physical damage then of course they do much less than the companion, but you never specified that in your original comment.

Wild Shape is more or less a role-playing / exploration tool originally which is why it's underwhelming, mostly, in KM.

If the Animal domain didn't exist they'd be a top tier class, because so many other classes can get pets when they shouldn't really be able to do by grabbing that domain that makes Druids a little weaker, but they're still a good class.

All the spells you've listed are late-game ones. I specifically wrote about a non-end game Druid build. And "Summon Nature's Ally", at least the first few levels, is complete garbage, useful only as a meat-shield a round or two. And as Desiderius already pointed out, both Beast Shape and Plant Shape spells are already in the game, so even wildshape is redundant.

So far you've only proven what I posted - for the first 3/4 of the game, it's basically PET and his Druid.

 

[Desiderius]

If you can’t read a spellbook that isn’t our problem. A round or two of distraction should be all you need. Wild Shaping as ability instead of spell saves your slots for your good stuff and 3/4 means you can even fight reasonably well without it.

 

[Shadenuat]

All the spells you've listed are late-game ones

They also often just copy wizard spells.

They missed every opportunity with druid spellbook they could, from charm animal on lvl 1 to spells that damage plant creatures or repel vermin etc. Could do some hits with Shillelagh too early, and I always loved these summoned weapons spells. As well as separation of outside/inside spells, felt like it added some realism.
As extra salt I remember problem with fairy fire and no quarterstaves. Not that treant is any good or whatever but could have just made it not use reagent then.

Finally, there is something about summons: summons with unique properties are better for a thinking caster player than OP mega pet. Like there was great use for 1 hp dogs in BG1, for bears, for nymph, for elementals, etc. especially since you could properly buff and control them.

 

[Desiderius]

Early game action economy is still better than Wiz with 3/4 BAB and full Barkskins help team survivability.

Changestaff now gets unlimited uses too since they found a Staff supplier. I haven’t checked CotW spellbook yet but I’d guess Holic has given you some new goodies.

 

[Nano]

How can you complain about low level druid spells when they have Snowball?

 

[Shadenuat]

Get rid of all that made up nonsense and give me my sling +1.

 

[Yosharian]

All the spells you've listed are late-game ones. I specifically wrote about a non-end game Druid build. And "Summon Nature's Ally", at least the first few levels, is complete garbage, useful only as a meat-shield a round or two. And as Desiderius already pointed out, both Beast Shape and Plant Shape spells are already in the game, so even wildshape is redundant.

So far you've only proven what I posted - for the first 3/4 of the game, it's basically PET and his Druid.

Sirocco is obtained at level 11, that's not endgame. A couple of those can wreck a lot of encounters.

Creeping Doom is at level 13, again an incredible spell and not really late-game.

If your criticism is 'from levels 1-10 Druid mostly just supports and the pet does all the work' then I don't disagree with that. But once you unlock those key spells the druid becomes potent, offensively.

Summons are poor early on but that applies to all casters?

Also pretty much every Divine caster is a support early on anyway, and Druid is basically Divine with some Arcane knobs on.

 

[Desiderius]

You’re 3/4, you can do more than pick your nose. Feyspeaker can be your Demoralize/Dazzling Displayer and make a bigger impact than that.

 

[Desiderius]

Alright I’ll slot in a Druid and a Tactical Leader and take out the Hunter and Divine Herbalist for CotW Depths. They’re both great but things could get gummed up.

 

[Testownia]

All the spells you've listed are late-game ones

They also often just copy wizard spells.

They missed every opportunity with druid spellbook they could, from charm animal on lvl 1 to spells that damage plant creatures or repel vermin etc. Could do some hits with Shillelagh too early, and I always loved these summoned weapons spells. As well as separation of outside/inside spells, felt like it added some realism.
As extra salt I remember problem with fairy fire and no quarterstaves. Not that treant is any good or whatever but could have just made it not use reagent then.

Finally, there is something about summons: summons with unique properties are better for a thinking caster player than OP mega pet. Like there was great use for 1 hp dogs in BG1, for bears, for nymph, for elementals, etc. especially since you could properly buff and control them.

Controllable summons HAVE been modded in - the problem is that 90% of them are pure damage dealers.

 

[Desiderius]

Good God does CotW have the Druid spells. Nature Fang incoming.

So Shillelagh is nuts. Is there any way to turn on the Two-weapon/Both Ends part?

 

[Testownia]

Good God does CotW have the Druid spells. Nature Fang incoming.

So Shillelagh is nuts. Is there any way to turn on the Two-weapon/Both Ends part?

Doesn't it work by default when wielding a quarterstaff?

 

[Testownia]

Holic actually marked this one New Issue instead of Not a Bug like he usually does even when he ends up fixing it.

Too bad he's very random on fixing vanilla bugs.

 

[Mangoose]

Good God does CotW have the Druid spells. Nature Fang incoming.

So Shillelagh is nuts. Is there any way to turn on the Two-weapon/Both Ends part?

More like God God does Holic keep shoving Archetypes to us.. and executed well.

It gives me the urge to respec all the time lol.

This build I came up with a while ago tho:

Edit: I'm high as well as playing right now and forgot to show the screenshot.

Because Gorum's favored weapon is a Greatsword... And Crusader's Flurry is available... Which gives me an extra attack at your BAB (original Monk let you use monk level as BAB, which sidestepped the fact that it was a 3/4 BAB class. Unchained Monk is full BAB so that thankfully "cleared" things up.)

I doubt it's optimized but it sure as hell is hilarious. The problem, of course, the the lack of AC. I didn't let myself change ability stats except for shifting race bonuses. It's possible the DR from the Invulnerable Rager will kick in hard.

Then again I really don't like her voice actor so meh.

Also I'm trying Kinetic Knight with Shroud of Water applied to your shield, giving it an enhancement bonus. Because with the "Shield Master" feat, the shield's enhancement bonus affects attack and damage rolls for bashing. In the mean time, though, I'm about to jump into Stalwart Defender (I wanted my 4th Bloodrager skill). Actually, I picked Steelblood Bloodrager on purpose so I can run 25 ft per standard action instead of 20 lol (Also, Oracle + Lameness + Barbarian/Bloodrager = you're at regular 30ft speed when you're wearing light armor.)

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah her VA is fucking horrible.

 

[Desiderius]

VA?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

VA?

Could be vagina, or Virginia, but I'm going to guess voice actress.

 

[Desiderius]

Yosh is on a roll with the on the money takes.