Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

This is another Oracle Variation I've been running with. Life Mystery gives it Channeling which ends up being very similar to a CHR-based Cleric.

Spoiler

You get CHR to Lore (Nature) to start out and I took Gozreh to get the Lore (Nature) bonus there are as well. Pretty clever that the Curse you start out with makes you immune to Sickened so this ability doesn't work on yourself. It does give you Pox Pustules for free so you can sort of build around that and other Necro spells for offense. Life Mystery gives you all the Restoration type (and later Resurrection type) spells on tap Spontaneously so they're available if you need them without burning a slot, which is very naice.

 

[Desiderius]

Someone was asking about early game Druid. There are a couple ways you can go:

Spoiler

If you forgo a pet (which is a decent idea since you have no Feat sharing abilities) you can take a Domain instead. This gives you extra spells as well as Domain abilities. Storm Burst attacks Touch AC, debuffs the target, and bypasses SR. In CotW the damage does up like a Kinetic Blast so stays relevant the whole game. Lightning Lord doesn't even need an attack roll at all. There's an archetype that specializes in Storm abilities that even lets you convert regular spells into Storm spells Spontaneously.

She actually has the Storms Subdomain which has this ability instead of Lightning Lord since as a Nature Fang she's more focused on attacking in Combat that casting. It is nice to have Touch abilities and Spells to fall back on against high AC foes.

Nature Fang Druid gets Slayer Talents and Studied Target (and one Sneak) like a Slayer. One of the biggest benefits of that is getting access to Combat Style Feats. Here she's getting Shield Mastery at lvl 6. It would usually take a Druid until level 15 to get that, and it's crucial for making Shield Bashing viable. CotW has several follow up Feats that build on Shield Bash that will be nice to explore.

With Shield Mastery your Bash doesn't even take the usual -2 Two-Weapon Fighting malus. There is a trait that lets you treat a Heavy Shield as Light but unfortunately I forgot to take it.

Let me know if you prefer the shots with most of the info turned off.

She cast that Obscuring Mist (first level Storms Domain spell) on those three archers on top. It gives everything more than 5 feet away from them Total Concealment (50% Miss Chance). Very handy.

The other things on this shot:

Shad is a Battle Host Occultist. Fighter Proficiencies (Martial Weapons, Heavy Armor, and Tower shield) in exchange for fewer Implements. Her Missile Shield Feat Deflected that projective from her teammate that failed her Corrupting Touch Save.

Shad made hers since all melee start with Shake it Off.

Kojak is an Investigator. That Quick Studied Combat gives him +1/+1 every other level.

Oh, and this, which is awesome:

Spoiler

Spirit Warrior (Sp)
At 5th level, a battle host can call forth the spirit of a dead warrior who once owned his bonded item. Calling the spirit is a standard action, and unlike the use of most spell-like abilities, it doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. This ability functions as spiritual ally, using the battle host’s occultist level as his caster level and his Intelligence modifier instead of his Wisdom modifier to determine the spell’s effects. The battle host can summon a spirit warrior once per day at 5th level, plus one additional time per day for every 4 occultist levels he possesses beyond 5th.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spiritual-ally

 

[Axioms]

Wisdom in the Flesh is kinda meh because Intrepid Volunteer could already put Athletics to Dexterity.

I mean in what cases will you care about a Str or even Dex skill going to Wis? On the other hand if they added the Healer background from WotR to CotW for Kingmaker you could straight up dump Wis. Steadfast Personality to use Cha for the saves, Healer and a 2 Dip into investigator to get Perception to INT as well as both Lores, and bam, who needs Wis? The only other stat you can so thoroughly replace is Strength with dex based damage and intrepid volunteer to put athletics into Dex.

There is so much wrong with this you may as well be playing a different game. I have no idea what you're even trying to accomplish.

Why in the world would you ever waste Intrepid Volunteer on Athletics? It gives you Agile Maneuvers for free for God's sake!

You would want things going to WIS because you're a Monk. Obviously. What are you even talking about?

I forgot that people play Monks intentionally outside of a min/max dip. Sometimes I have too much faith in humanity so I forget that people do certain horrific things, like play monks intentionally.

 

[Desiderius]

P:K has Unchained. As I said, if you can't appreciate the raw power there I can't help you.

If you're trying to condescend to me your headed the wrong direction, bub. I will say you've condensed a remarkable amount of retardation into one post, so you've got that going for you, which ain't nothing. Brevity is the soul of wit should you decide to use your powers for, you know, less abjectly retarded shit.

 

[Axioms]

Monks are a stupid class.

 

[Desiderius]

So for Nature Fang it's only Natural to finally break out the Motherless Tiefling for the first time.

You want both STR and WIS and you've got a Sneak and Studied Target to boost the Bite. Plus it's thematic with the Fang and all.

Hungerseed makes a good Sage Counselor BTW.

Spoiler

Yes, that's also a Magic Missile. There's a first time for everything. Mind Barrier is Swift Action 2pts/lvl extra hit points for a round. She was getting attacked by her own teammate so good insurance.

Anyway the Bite is going to take awhile to get there, but it will.

In CotW you need a plan to deal with Soft Cover and really with Ranged lagging melee on AB in general lacking Flanking. The two ways to do that are strategies to ignore Cover (or move away from it like that Hermit Oracle and his Teleports) like Friendly Fire Manuevers, Arrowsong Minstrel, Erastil's Deadeye Bowman Trait, and Improved Precise Shot, and strategies to turn on Coordinated (melee partner not giving Cover) and Enfilading (doesn't care if melee is giving Cover, more prereqs) Shot.

There are a lot of moving parts. The problem for the Feats is that they have ranged prereqs which melee characters don't want to take, but you need a melee character with them to turn them on for the Ranged men. The best way to do this are Dedicated Pet classes like Hunter and Sacred Huntmaster that allow you to share your Teamwork Feats with your Pet for free. This makes pet classes that can't do this much less attractive. It's the best way because then the pet turns on the Feats for all your other Ranged characters. Other ways around this are Ranged Characters with Solo Tactics which lets them pretend everyone has whatever Teamwork Feats they have, or classes that let you share Teamwork Feats.

On the other end Improved Precise lets you ignore Soft Cover but it's takes a long time to get unless you play a class with Combat Style Feats and even there you might rather have Menacing to get Shatter Defenses.

This is really a very good ability and you gget it for free with Occultist Transformation Implement. Since Transformation is half of the Trappings of the Warrior Panoply that effectively gives you full BAB I'd have a hard time passing that up.

 

[Desiderius]

Fastest ignore on record. Takes all kinds.

 

[Desiderius]

Anyway, the Wicked Chanter just wiped the floor with my party. Repeatedly. After about an hour of absolutely futile attempts, I've finallly managed to kill him by using Dimension door (in and out) and obliterating him in one round before he casts anything. I believe that was the first time in 20 years of playing CRPGs where I've actually used teleportation for something useful. PF:K just keeps on delivering

Play D:OS II. Use Tactical Retreat. You'll be using teleport effects whenever you can for the rest of your life.

Escape, Evasive Shot, and especially Leap are absolutely essential to get the most out of Deadfire.

In general sounds like there is a great deal you're missing (the 4 creation points you get going from 12 to 8 can't possibly be worth the pain of trying to dodge encumbrance and you don't need Slashing Grace since you get Deft Strike from Swordlord) but you're keeping at it which is the important thing. Hope you keep improving and enjoy it.

 

[Testownia]

Someone was asking about early game Druid. There are a couple ways you can go:

Spoiler

View attachment 18458

If you forgo a pet (which is a decent idea since you have no Feat sharing abilities) you can take a Domain instead. This gives you extra spells as well as Domain abilities. Storm Burst attacks Touch AC, debuffs the target, and bypasses SR. In CotW the damage does up like a Kinetic Blast so stays relevant the whole game. Lightning Lord doesn't even need an attack roll at all. There's an archetype that specializes in Storm abilities that even lets you convert regular spells into Storm spells Spontaneously.

View attachment 18459

She actually has the Storms Subdomain which has this ability instead of Lightning Lord since as a Nature Fang she's more focused on attacking in Combat that casting. It is nice to have Touch abilities and Spells to fall back on against high AC foes.

View attachment 18460

Nature Fang Druid gets Slayer Talents and Studied Target (and one Sneak) like a Slayer. One of the biggest benefits of that is getting access to Combat Style Feats. Here she's getting Shield Mastery at lvl 6. It would usually take a Druid until level 15 to get that, and it's crucial for making Shield Bashing viable. CotW has several follow up Feats that build on Shield Bash that will be nice to explore.

View attachment 18461

With Shield Mastery your Bash doesn't even take the usual -2 Two-Weapon Fighting malus. There is a trait that lets you treat a Heavy Shield as Light but unfortunately I forgot to take it.

View attachment 18462

Let me know if you prefer the shots with most of the info turned off.

She cast that Obscuring Mist (first level Storms Domain spell) on those three archers on top. It gives everything more than 5 feet away from them Total Concealment (50% Miss Chance). Very handy.

The other things on this shot:

Shad is a Battle Host Occultist. Fighter Proficiencies (Martial Weapons, Heavy Armor, and Tower shield) in exchange for fewer Implements. Her Missile Shield Feat Deflected that projective from her teammate that failed her Corrupting Touch Save.

Shad made hers since all melee start with Shake it Off.

Kojak is an Investigator. That Quick Studied Combat gives him +1/+1 every other level.

Oh, and this, which is awesome:

Spoiler

Spirit Warrior (Sp)
At 5th level, a battle host can call forth the spirit of a dead warrior who once owned his bonded item. Calling the spirit is a standard action, and unlike the use of most spell-like abilities, it doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. This ability functions as spiritual ally, using the battle host’s occultist level as his caster level and his Intelligence modifier instead of his Wisdom modifier to determine the spell’s effects. The battle host can summon a spirit warrior once per day at 5th level, plus one additional time per day for every 4 occultist levels he possesses beyond 5th.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spiritual-ally

View attachment 18463

It was me who was complaining about the Druid. If you want to go this way, make an Ecclesitheurge of Gozreh and take the Weather and Animal Domains. You'll get an animal companion, the spell you've just displayed, more spell casts per level than a Druid WITH a companion; channel energy and, since you're going to be Neutral, you can take Versatile Channeller. A better option in every way possible. Oh, and Augment Summoning and Superior Summoner also affect summoned undead.

 

[Desiderius]

No, it isn't. Animal Domain is hot garbage. Pets clog things up so you want a class that can take best advantage of the pet as I just explained above. Play the Varnhold DLC to see just how badly Animal Domain does not do this. Domain abilities are really important, as are Domain Spells. Don't piss them away on shit.

Nature Fang Druid runs circles around Ecclesitheurge but your action economy gets a little stretched. I think I went back and am running the dedicated Storm Druid instead and will show you the errors of your ways.

 

[Testownia]

No, it isn't. Animal Domain is hot garbage. Pets clog things up so you want a class that can take best advantage of the pet as I just explained above. Play the Varnhold DLC to see just how badly Animal Domain does not do this. Domain abilities are really important, as are Domain Spells. Don't piss them away on shit.

Nature Fang Druid runs circles around Ecclesitheurge but your action economy gets a little stretched. I think I went back and am running the dedicated Storm Druid instead and will show you the errors of your ways.

Right, because Animal Domain doesn't give you Animal Fang, and Ecclesitheurge doesn't have any buff spells. None at all.

 

[Desiderius]

Animal Fang? Pets get an Amulet slot in CotW. Obscuring Mist is a lifesaver.

You already want a Cleric/Oracle for Archon's and the like so you're talking about something completely different. You get no Armor, Druid gets Medium and Heavy Shield. Full Barkskins, both Fangs as regular spells if you want them. Druid isn't the best pet class but Cleric is the absolute worst and a huge waste when you could have Inspiring Command, Touch of Law/Good, or Guarded Hearth instead.

What are you even talking about.

 

[M. AQVILA]

Does the scaled fist AC bonus apply to dragon form?

 

[Desiderius]

It should. Dragon AC is Natural.

 

[Desiderius]

Heh, turns out Storm Lord Druid picks up a Second Domain so you grab the pet there if you want it.

CotW also lets you get pet via Feat.

 

[M. AQVILA]

Of these builds which one do you guys think is the better one for a lawful good 2 handed dragon disciple?

• 1 Scaled Fist/2 Fighter/2 Sorcerer
• 1 Fighter/4 Sorcerer

I would like to take as much advantage of the dragon form as possible.

 

[Desiderius]

Test different setups in Depths and take the one you like into main campaign. Always try no splashes first so you have something to compare to.

Dragons can be a bit hard to fit into tight spaces.

 

[Delterius]

so apparently this didn't make it into the game

owlcat pls

 

[Efe]

pet for a feat?
whats pet progression like?

 

[Desiderius]

pet for a feat?
whats pet progression like?

Skill Focus Lore (Nature) Prereq (which Divine Herbalist actually wants), lvl -3 so you’re pretty much taking Boon too.

As I’ve said I’m at the place of one pet only and I want a class that takes full advantage so not really interested.

 

[The_Mask]

Dragons can be a bit hard to fit into tight spaces.

This is what dads should teach 17 year-olds about women.

 

[Desiderius]

 

[Yosharian]

Of these builds which one do you guys think is the better one for a lawful good 2 handed dragon disciple?

• 1 Scaled Fist/2 Fighter/2 Sorcerer
• 1 Fighter/4 Sorcerer

I would like to take as much advantage of the dragon form as possible.

Seriously though, why?

 

[Efe]

is there any case where dragon disciple makes you stronger than staying in main class?

 

[Cael]

is there any case where dragon disciple makes you stronger than staying in main class?

Yeah. Mod it to give d12 HD, full BAB, all saves high, 9/10 casting, and get all simple and martial weapons.

It would make a decent fighter/mage hybrid PrC then