Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Fronder]

In general sounds like there is a great deal you're missing (the 4 creation points you get going from 12 to 8 can't possibly be worth the pain of trying to dodge encumbrance and you don't need Slashing Grace since you get Deft Strike from Swordlord) but you're keeping at it which is the important thing. Hope you keep improving and enjoy it.

No, encumbrance wasn't a problem. I've started with Sword Saint 1 (Wfoc + Wfin) - Aldori (Sl. Grace) - Trad Monk (Crane style + Precise Strike). So, no personal encumbrance because I was using braces of armor; no party encumbrance because I've multiclassed Valerie into Fey Speaker and got a pet (plus I'am using Amiri and Regongar).

It's a long game and I think burning a feat for early game is worth it because you still get 30-50 hours out of it. In any case, I think Duelist is a better prestige class than Swordlord. You get more AC (and it stacks with Sword Saint bonuses if you have any), can parry nat. 20, get more initiative, free combat reflexes and you don't have to get Dazzling Display (intimidation works poorly with dex builds imo).

 

[M. AQVILA]

I've finally decided on 1 Scaled Fist/3 Paladin/1 Sorcerer.

Race: Human;

Bloodline: Gold Dragon;

Feats: Toughness; Intimidating prowess (SF); Weapon Focus; Dazzling Display; Elemental Focus: Fire (S); Power Attack (DD); Cornugon Smash; Shatter Defenses; Blind-Fight (DD); (Defensive feat: Iron will, Great Fortitude, etc); Improved Initiative (DD); Dreadful Carnage; (Defensive Feats)...

Spells: Buffing focus;

Although I'm still undecided on whether I should pick a monk weapon for flurry of blows or just do as I like and choose the greatsword. I'm leaning towards the latter to be honest, I don't particularly like the monk weapons.

Seriously though, why?

Because playing as a mighty dragon wannabe sounds pretty cool.

 

[Yosharian]

I've finally decided on 1 Scaled Fist/3 Paladin/1 Sorcerer.

Race: Human;

Bloodline: Gold Dragon;

Feats: Toughness; Intimidating prowess (SF); Weapon Focus; Dazzling Display; Elemental Focus: Fire (S); Power Attack (DD); Cornugon Smash; Shatter Defenses; Blind-Fight (DD); (Defensive feat: Iron will, Great Fortitude, etc); Improved Initiative (DD); Dreadful Carnage; (Defensive Feats)...

Spells: Buffing focus;

Although I'm still undecided on whether I should pick a monk weapon for flurry of blows or just do as I like and choose the greatsword. I'm leaning towards the latter to be honest, I don't particularly like the monk weapons.

Seriously though, why?

Because playing as a mighty dragon wannabe sounds pretty cool.

Alright. I just don't think the class is good value compared to other options.

 

[Desiderius]

Ah, the mighty Toughness, who can avoid the lure of that sweet, sweet HP?

Sword Saint 1 to get Dueling Sword Proficiency and Focus then Aldori Defender 1 to get it again!

Having fun with the old Pathfinder Kingmaker.

 

[Desiderius]

So Hunter comes with Martial Proficiency (the familiar 3/4 classes don't, the newer ones like Warpriest and Occultist do):

Spoiler

That means one thing: Throwing Axes

With CotW it's ridiculous because Two-Weapon is one Feat then gets iteratives naturally like main hand. I like this change exactly because it makes things like Throwing Axes and Shield Bashing viable for non-Fighters but it is VERY viable.

Here's the Storm Druid. CotW has various Mists and Storm and Fog spells that shut down whatever bad thing you didn't want happening inside. You use them for CC then Dismiss or flail around inside them yourself after you've handled the main threat. This class makes it asymmetrical.

I.e. you're unaffected by your own Scirocco.

I went ahead and took Natural Spell but in CotW you can cast in Elemental Form without it.

Need it even for your Spell-like abilties.

Here you go, Crispy

This seems pretty good in the Depths of the Depths. Occultist Sixth level so available at class level 16. No Save or Resistance.

 

[Desiderius]

is there any case where dragon disciple makes you stronger than staying in main class?

It would if P:K didn't give out stats like candy.

It's a long game and I think burning a feat for early game is worth it because you still get 30-50 hours out of it. In any case, I think Duelist is a better prestige class than Swordlord. You get more AC (and it stacks with Sword Saint bonuses if you have any), can parry nat. 20, get more initiative, free combat reflexes and you don't have to get Dazzling Display (intimidation works poorly with dex builds imo).

Here, read this:

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/posts/6592812/

and this:

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...urn-based-combat.125267/page-594#post-6594665

and this:

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...urn-based-combat.125267/page-595#post-6595915

 

[Desiderius]

Somewhat agree on the DEX builds Intimidation thing (see Regill) since Cornugan goes through Power Attack but not Piranha. At the end of the day 13 STR isn't that hard to get nor Cornugan necessary if you're getting Shaken from somewhere else, and you'd really like to have Shatter and some Persuasion on your MC in any case.

 

[M. AQVILA]

Ah, the mighty Toughness, who can avoid the lure of that sweet, sweet HP?

Yeah, I will probably change it to something else. Since I skimped on CON, I was thinking of making up for it with toughness.

 

[Desiderius]

Probably better than it looks. No real reason to skimp on CON in main campaign and in any case you get some from Dragon Disciple.

For some reason new players of any kind of D&D game gravitate to abilities that increase health. Many studies show this. We’re all to old to remember when we did too.

 

[Xamenos]

For some reason new players of any kind of D&D game gravitate to abilities that increase health. Many studies show this. We’re all to old to remember when we did too.

I remember an interview with Wizard's 3rd edition designer who mentioned exactly this trend, and how he made the feat intentionally bad so he could teach them to stop. (Before PF, Toughness gave just 3HP fixed and nothing more) Thankfully Paizo realized how idiotic it is to give players shitty options on purpose.

 

[Desiderius]

That was Rosewater’s conclusion as well. As in the Soyer case would have been better to give them a moderate stove on which to burn their hand than to coddle them in faceroll.

Learning is fun. First step of learning is sucking.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

HP is for The Help. Glass cannon mageocracy for life.

 

[Xamenos]

That was Rosewater’s conclusion as well. As in the Soyer case would have been better to give them a moderate stove on which to burn their hand than to coddle them in faceroll.

Learning is fun. First step of learning is sucking.

Yeah. Rosewater is a good designer and I learned quite a bit by reading his articles and listening some of his podcasts. It's just a shame he has no real power in Wizards and they've spent the past years making one mistake after another on the very things he specifically called out years ago.

 

[Desiderius]

He’s the kind of guy who can, and would, talk himself into all the bullshit though. He did hire a guy (random dude who played fun decks at prereleases) I recommended to him (Mark Globus) so that was cool.

 

[Parabalus]

Probably better than it looks. No real reason to skimp on CON in main campaign and in any case you get some from Dragon Disciple.

For some reason new players of any kind of D&D game gravitate to abilities that increase health. Many studies show this. We’re all to old to remember when we did too.

You sure this applies to CRPGs?

First instinct is to dump CON since they are easy and content is gated behind skills, of which CON governs none.

 

[Desiderius]

People who understand any of that aren’t new.

 

[Xamenos]

You sure this applies to CRPGs?

First instinct is to dump CON since they are easy and content is gated behind skills, of which CON governs none.

Depends on the class, in my experience. Newbies who play martials tend to overvalue HP, newbies who play casters tend to undervalue it.

 

[Jvegi]

Failed use magical device checks do not use up wand charges :D:D:D

This game. Fucking ruskies.

 

[Xamenos]

Failed use magical device checks do not use up wand charges :D:D:D

This game. Fucking ruskies.

 

[Jvegi]

Failed use magical device checks do not use up wand charges :D:D:D

This game. Fucking ruskies.

View attachment 18475

I suspected that is the case. It's still ridiculous and promotes silly gameplay.

In combat, it's less dumb, but casting mage armor was just funny.

 

[Desiderius]

Still uses up valuable time. Can’t really sit there all day while your buffs are expiring try to roll a 19. Makes more sense than take twenty.

 

[Desiderius]

Then in combat you have to dedicate a lot of resources to make it reliable. There are classes then that specialize in that.

Elegant design.

 

[Jvegi]

Still uses up valuable time. Can’t really sit there all day while your buffs are expiring try to roll a 19. Makes more sense than take twenty.

Mage armor lasts hours. So does stoneskin. Nothing will run out.

 

[Salvo]

Still uses up valuable time. Can’t really sit there all day while your buffs are expiring try to roll a 19. Makes more sense than take twenty.

Mage armor lasts hours. So does stoneskin. Nothing will run out.

Convenient of you to leave out all the Minute/Level and Round/Level buffs

 

[Desiderius]

Got a Sorc headed to Dragon Disciple, an Aldori Defender/Swordlord, a Kinetic Knight, an Evangelist Cleric, an Investigator, and a Hunter/Leopard on level 3 in Depths for testing.