Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

A pointless comment about Last Azlanti being mandatory for all "as close to PNP as possible".

Yeah.. That's another gray area I was thinking about because you don't go through so many encounters in a session, so should have enough Vancian spells for the day. Different on computer games where there are lot more encounters. Not that I have an answer. I feel like there might be more ideas than resting all the place like in other games. Probably something some game designer gotta think about.

They did. Plenty of spells by midgame, good cantrips early. You can even use weapons with some buff support.

 

[Desiderius]

The intended design is no mystery and can be played with enjoyment n any difficulty, which is remarkably good design.

What you can’t do is play it like an MMO on Unfair and expect to play without having to reload a lot. This is known as “a slog” or “too many trash fights.”

 

[Mangoose]

What you can’t do is play it like an MMO on Unfair and expect to play without having to reload a lot. This is known as “a slog” or “too many trash fights.”

Really? Is that why people complained? That's so stupid lol. If difficulty adds bloat of course it gets sloggy. If you do it right, like Sword Coast Stratagems, then it doesn't get sloggy, you just die.

 

[Xamenos]

What you can’t do is play it like an MMO on Unfair and expect to play without having to reload a lot. This is known as “a slog” or “too many trash fights.”

Really? Is that why people complained? That's so stupid lol. If difficulty adds bloat of course it gets sloggy. If you do it right, like Sword Coast Stratagems, then it doesn't get sloggy, you just die.

You cannot imagine how many people played on the highest difficulties and bitched and moaned they couldn't faceroll the game like they're used to.

 

[Mangoose]

What you can’t do is play it like an MMO on Unfair and expect to play without having to reload a lot. This is known as “a slog” or “too many trash fights.”

Really? Is that why people complained? That's so stupid lol. If difficulty adds bloat of course it gets sloggy. If you do it right, like Sword Coast Stratagems, then it doesn't get sloggy, you just die.

You cannot imagine how many people played on the highest difficulties and bitched and moaned they couldn't faceroll the game like they're used to.

That's so fucking stupid. I have no words lol

 

[Desiderius]

What you can’t do is play it like an MMO on Unfair and expect to play without having to reload a lot. This is known as “a slog” or “too many trash fights.”

Really? Is that why people complained? That's so stupid lol. If difficulty adds bloat of course it gets sloggy. If you do it right, like Sword Coast Stratagems, then it doesn't get sloggy, you just die.

Difficulty doesn’t add bloat unless you up it without developing your approach first. Once you’ve mastered it the game is a joy on any difficulty. Getting there on Unfair is far from trivial.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Mangoose I wouldn't say I buffed much either. Good Hope perpetually of course, maybe Aid on the main tank. Larger maps would get Mass Resist Elements/Poison. Others like Mass Protection from Arrows, Death Ward, Freedom, etc. would be kept for reserve. Later in game I'd have so many spells and extend rods that I'd put them on prophylactically. Even then, we're talking 2-3 spells cast per caster. I too prefer offensive control oriented spells.

 

[Desiderius]

Takes three healers to keep my tank barely alive, use up half my Magic Missiles on one mob, and Amiri cant hit anything. RNG hates me.

That sort of thing.

Keeping full Barkskins up takes a little time initially but they last forever. Is a pain for one fight, but P:K did a good job giving you (inferior) amulets so you weren’t just toast. Same with rings and Shield of Faith but those don’t last quite as long. By level six or so long enough.

For Shield just play classes with Shields and use them lol. Likewise with Light Armor/Bracers and Mage Armor.

Load up the point if the spear, let the rest wear items instead of buffs.

 

[Mangoose]

Takes three healers to keep my tank barely alive, use up half my Magic Missiles on one mob, and Amiri cant hit anything. RNG hates me.

That sort of thing.

Keeping full Barkskins up takes a little time initially but they last forever. Is a pain for one fight, but P:K did a good job giving you (inferior) amulets so you weren’t just toast. Same with rings and Shield of Faith but those don’t last quite as long. By level six or so long enough.

For Shield just play classes with Shields and use them lol. Likewise with Light Armor/Bracers and Mage Armor.

Load up the point if the spear, let the rest wear items instead of buffs.

Yeah... See.. I never Heal. Prebuff mage shield, haste, shield of faith beforehand. In battle I got Mirror Image/Vanish/Invisibility as well as stopping them with Slumber/Wall of Fire/Fascinate. Also, a mass Protection against Alignment once I see what the enemies' alignments are.

Lol actually I did just Trip an owlbear with my Magus from 20ft away, bc True Strike + Blade Lash. That let Valerie and Noknok flank the fallen little shit and that's 5x sneak attacks from Noknok per round AND THEN he gets hit with by Val and Noknok when he gets up and provokes AoOs. Meanwhile, my Magus is meleeing a totally different guy.

Summons are excellent distractions. Jaethal raising the corpses of the enemies I JUST KILLED to fight on my side is another thing. I found some Negative Channeling + 2d6 crown so Jaethal's damage comes from AOE Negative Channeling.

If I'm being ganged up I can 5 foot step around and behind one of my tougher guys, they won't be able to full attack me. Like I did with Jubilost. Instead of attacking Jubilost, they full attack the Mirror Images of the Magus (me) who is now in front of Jubilost (and they don't have room to 5ft step and full attack Jubilost either).

How the heck did you have to use half your Magic Missiles on one mob? A better way to use Magic Missile is to get a guaranteed kill when the enemy is maybe 5-10% left. I don't need to do much damage, hitting the enemy is enough. Or a Jubilost directed blast (he's a Grenadier).

I don't use shields. For defense I find a reach weapon + AoOs so much more useful. Don't forget, you get an extra 50% more bonus on Power Attack if you're wielding a weapon in two hands (so works with one handers too).

 

[Mangoose]

Tristian only got smacked because I clicked the ground instead of the enemy (he's an archer build).

Also I forgot to mention, putting Jubilost behind my Magus and then casting (infusing) Invisibility on my Magus. Who is already Mirror Imaged. My guys work together, and not necessarily needing Teamwork feats. I was a little surprised my Magus was putting out damage because I spent his spells casting towards Valerie and Noknok, but I guess my Arcane Enchanted Scimitar (Scimitar +1 lol) helped. I wish they had a friggin pool counter I turned on Fire and Keen (crit on a 15 lol) but I can't remember how much I left for the base +enhancement. Oh, and Warpriests are ridiculous buffers. Almost the same action economy as a Magus but Fervor is limited. For example, Fervor swift action Divine whatever buff to me, then full attack x4 with Arsenal Chaplain.

Edit: Also, I only have one Fighter. That is.. I only have one character with Fighter levels there, and she only has one level of Fighter. The rest are Oracle w/Battle Mystery. Battle is actually kinda funny because it gives you regular melee shit but also fucking Walls of Fire and shit I can control the battlefield with.

 

[Desiderius]

That was the joke.

Right over your head.

 

[Mangoose]

That was the joke.

Right over your head.

Where I didn't see it.

jfc they were not kidding when they said the Arsenal Chaplain was the best archer. mfw

 

[Desiderius]

The Arsenal Chaplain is not the best Archer.

 

[Mangoose]

The Arsenal Chaplain is not the best Archer.

Well, you get Advanced Weapon Training, which lets you get to make your bow a Sacred Weapon again, scaling back with Warpriest levels. Add on the quickbuffing with fervor and boom

 

[Desiderius]

D20 says specifically that Sacred Weapon does not scale for Chaplain.

Quickbuffing does nothing. Just prebuff.

In any event those things are completely beside the point.

 

[Desiderius]

I've gotten the message from the Dragon that he's updated his inventory - he's lying - when you kill one of the bosses in Depths as part of main campaign. For the first time I got a pop up that said the same thing in the standalone and they gave me a fancy teleporter (to go shop I guess). Teleporter said still too thin and turns out inventory, again, was not in fact updated.

Any Depths vets that can advise Pink Eye ? Just hit level 8 going great.

 

[Xamenos]

he's lying.

He's not. Sort his inventory by date. It's just that his new items are worthless one that you'd casually ignore when browsing his shop normally.

 

[Yosharian]

I guess I just don't like buffing

This might not be the game for you.

Can just play on Core or Normal, lessens the need for buff stacking.

I play with as close to PNP core as possible. No more, no less. To be honest, "difficulty" doesn't work like that when playing PNP. What you do is increase the CRs of the enemies in various encounters. Remember, Pathfinder and D&D rely on DMs to design things on the fly.

AI mods I'm fine with. Changes in numbers... not so much, because you would need to tweak every single encounter. Different positioning, different numbers, different classes.

Yeah the difficulty increases via monster stat inflation are not the best to say the least.

 

[Parabalus]

I guess I just don't like buffing

This might not be the game for you.

Can just play on Core or Normal, lessens the need for buff stacking.

I play with as close to PNP core as possible. No more, no less. To be honest, "difficulty" doesn't work like that when playing PNP. What you do is increase the CRs of the enemies in various encounters. Remember, Pathfinder and D&D rely on DMs to design things on the fly.

AI mods I'm fine with. Changes in numbers... not so much, because you would need to tweak every single encounter. Different positioning, different numbers, different classes.

Yeah the difficulty increases via monster stat inflation are not the best to say the least.

Maybe the PnP stats are deflated and Owlcat got it right?

 

[Mangoose]

D20 says specifically that Sacred Weapon does not scale for Chaplain.

It doesn't. That's why you pick up Sacred Weapon Focus with Advanced Weapon Training. To get it back.

 

[Mangoose]

What, you've never picked up Weapon Focus with Kukris as a Fighter or as Arsenal Chaplain (and whoever else gets Weapons Training) and run around dual wielding them?

 

[Mangoose]

I guess I just don't like buffing

This might not be the game for you.

Can just play on Core or Normal, lessens the need for buff stacking.

I play with as close to PNP core as possible. No more, no less. To be honest, "difficulty" doesn't work like that when playing PNP. What you do is increase the CRs of the enemies in various encounters. Remember, Pathfinder and D&D rely on DMs to design things on the fly.

AI mods I'm fine with. Changes in numbers... not so much, because you would need to tweak every single encounter. Different positioning, different numbers, different classes.

Yeah the difficulty increases via monster stat inflation are not the best to say the least.

Maybe the PnP stats are deflated and Owlcat got it right?

Well I simply meant that in PNP difficulty comes from the DM changing encounters on the fly. Obviously different here. Sword Coast Strategems is an interesting one, for BG, actually dicks with the AI scripting.

 

[Desiderius]

CotW Kinetic Whip lets Kinetic Knights get Attacks of Opportunity for the first time:

Spoiler

Kinetic Whip is a Free Action so if you keep Blade Toggled on then put Whip on Autocast it will activate it once a turn then you can get Attacks of Opportunity at range. Lvl 8 is the first time you can do this without Gather Power and just in time since this is when you pick up your first interative.

In the combat log can see here most of what's been happening.

M. AQVILA is a Sorc8* who will be fighting as a Dragon starting at level 13 so we can compare that with Dragon Disciple. Right now buffing, nuking, and Intimidating.

Fronder is an Aldori Defender 6/Aldori Swordlord 2** who Disarmed the big boss, causing the bosses' untrained Unarmed attack to trigger the Attack of Opportunity that the Kinetic Knight8 Vi Domina killed him with.

He dropped the wand, which is amazing with 50 charges. Check out the CotW Animate Dead. Also supposedly now we were supposed to get more loot from the vendor.

Xam is an Evangelist8 (Cleric Archetype) which trades a Domain, Spontaneous Healing, and Medium Armor/Shield for Bard Songs and Spontaneous Control Spells:

Axioms is an Empiricist8 (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator/) who handles the Perception and Trickery and has the Alchemist spellbook. She's now fighting as a Leopard:

Need to work on that DEX, and pick up a Mage Armor. Forgot that Beast Shape turns that off.

Finally I'm a Hunter8, a class that focuses on making the pet a beast.

That's a Leopard7. Four individual buffs and one group. Not great not awful.

The archery is coming along nicely as well, but it does take awhile.

* - Level 8 so think of this in Trobold:

She's the one who won the big boss fight with this level 2 spell: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/burst-of-radiance/. Blind + AoE damage to Evil.

** - there was another boss on this level who was even tougher:

Spoiler

That was a reload. This was better:

Note the poor positioning. This doesn't count as flanking.

Much better, and a nice reward. Also picked up Death from Above (+4 to hit ranged gloves). Just got the fact that these make Deadly Aim viable. Good one, Owlcat.

 

[Mangoose]

Ohh derp I was getting annoyed with the Whip bc I didn't think about autocasting...

;_;

 

[Desiderius]

Holic is the master. If he designed it there’s a way to make it work.

Ranged (all other) Kinnies use Autocast for Gathering since that uses up your Move Action and everything else you do is a Standard Action.

Since KKnights need the Move Action to, you know, move* and can also use Full Attacks since they alone get iteratives that frees up the Autocast.

* - probably main reason the Blade is free since otherwise the class would never work at low levels.