Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[NJClaw]

It's a multi-hit attack, it's obviously logically inconsistent if one multi-hit attack procs sneak attack multiple time while another doesn't.

You can't be serious.

Even in PnP, Magic Missile gets no Sneak Attack, while Scorching Ray does.

To get the Sneak Attack damage, the spell needs to have an attack roll. Magic Missile doesn't have an attack roll, so it normally gets no Sneak Attack damage. The only way Magic Missile can benefit from Sneak Attack is through Surprise Spell, but that doesn't change the fact that Magic Missile makes no attack rolls, so it only counts as a single spell and gets the damage bonus only once.

It's a different ability...

Which means what? That hitting twice with a spell that sneak attacks in one instance should do double damage while another should only do damage once? Bear in mind that if you cast something like Fireball it also works correctly and sneak attacks once per target.

Of course Fireball adds Sneak Attack damage only once per target... because it doesn't make multiple attack rolls!

The only inconsistency is with spells that have two damage types (stuff like Volcanic Storm), where it doesn't really make sense for the Sneak Attack to be applied twice.

 

[Stavrophore]

reddit

Found your problem.

It's all in game.

Cant you just answer with the formula for calculating this DC? There is no explanation on how DC is calculated in game

 

[Saravan]

@Stavrophore like many other things this game requires a hefty amount of google searches (if you aren't familiar with the ruleset like myself). For example the game doesn't explain that "morale", "competence" and "luck" bonuses are just arbitrary prefixes to bonus rolls to differentiate the stacking mechanics. Nowhere is this explained you have to google to understand it.

 

[Stavrophore]

Same for HD, people tell it's level, so i assume the kargadd had HD of 7? Nowhere in the game HD is explained, and its important for some spells.

 

[Desiderius]

reddit

Found your problem.

It's all in game.

Cant you just answer with the formula for calculating this DC? There is no explanation on how DC is calculated in game

I don't know about you but when I want to know how magic works I look under Magic:

 

[Average Manatee]

It's a multi-hit attack, it's obviously logically inconsistent if one multi-hit attack procs sneak attack multiple time while another doesn't.

You can't be serious.

Even in PnP, Magic Missile gets no Sneak Attack, while Scorching Ray does.

To get the Sneak Attack damage, the spell needs to have an attack roll. Magic Missile doesn't have an attack roll, so it normally gets no Sneak Attack damage. The only way Magic Missile can benefit from Sneak Attack is through Surprise Spell, but that doesn't change the fact that Magic Missile makes no attack rolls, so it only counts as a single spell and gets the damage bonus only once.

It's a different ability...

Which means what? That hitting twice with a spell that sneak attacks in one instance should do double damage while another should only do damage once? Bear in mind that if you cast something like Fireball it also works correctly and sneak attacks once per target.

Of course Fireball adds Sneak Attack damage only once per target... because it doesn't make multiple attack rolls!

The only inconsistency is with spells that have two damage types (stuff like Volcanic Storm), where it doesn't really make sense for the Sneak Attack to be applied twice.

So Magic missile: Multiple attacks, multiple hits, zero sneak attacks
Hellfire ray: Multiple attacks, multiple hits, 2x multiple hits sneak attacks

Nonsense. The fact that one has an attack roll while the other doesn't is not relevant.

@Stavrophore like many other things this game requires a hefty amount of google searches (if you aren't familiar with the ruleset like myself). For example the game doesn't explain that "morale", "competence" and "luck" bonuses are just arbitrary prefixes to bonus rolls to differentiate the stacking mechanics. Nowhere is this explained you have to google to understand it.

The actual real bullshit is that there's no way to see spell casting progressing in game. You can't even see shit like which of the archetypes change the primary casting stat except in a few (nowhere near all) descriptions.

Same for HD, people tell it's level, so i assume the kargadd had HD of 7? Nowhere in the game HD is explained, and its important for some spells.

He is level 12 and is 12 HD. "Humanoid" is sort of like a generic class used for NPCs to give them levels with overall durability/stats without giving them all the extra powers a level 12 fighter would have.

It's not that important except for a few spells like sleep which affect a maximum number of HD and spells that level drain enemies (if you level drain something down to zero it dies automatically no matter what).

 

[Desiderius]

I looked up a lot on d20 and it almost always works great. Then I later found it in game.

I still don't understand CR and how multiple levels stack for HD. Pretty sure Kargadd is lvl 12 tho.

 

[NJClaw]

So Magic missile: Multiple attacks, multiple hits, zero sneak attacks
Hellfire ray: Multiple attacks, multiple hits, 2x multiple hits sneak attacks

Nonsense.

Dude, why do you keep saying that Magic Missile makes multiple attacks? Magic Missile makes no attack, therefore it gets no Sneak Attack. It works that way even in PnP. Surprise Spells allows to add your Sneak Attack damage to a spell once, so if you use if with Magic Missile it only adds the damage once.

As I was saying before, Hellfire Ray might still have a problem since the Sneak Attack applying separately to each damage type is very suspect, but how Sneak Attack interacts with ray spells that make multiple attack rolls is perfectly coherent in the context of the game (even if it behaves differently from PnP).

 

[Stavrophore]

reddit

Found your problem.

It's all in game.

Cant you just answer with the formula for calculating this DC? There is no explanation on how DC is calculated in game

I don't know about you but when I want to know how magic works I look under Magic:

View attachment 19962

First i look for specific term that is listed many time in game, i expect it to have an entry in common terms. Second, the entry you provided STILL doesn't list how DC is calculated with specifics like a FORMULA. I know that it base on charisma or int for casters, i want to know exactly the numbers.

 

[Desiderius]

The actual real bullshit is that there's no way to see spell casting progressing in game.

Right Click on character level in the progression screen. It's all there moron. If you could give up you retarded faith that it isn't you might even be able to find it yourself.

 

[Desiderius]

The formula is right there.

Are you guys Islamic or something?

 

[Saravan]

Another thing this game doesn't explain in for example the encyclopedia is how Desiderius autism level is calculated.

 

[Average Manatee]

Dude, why do you keep saying that Magic Missile makes multiple attacks? Magic Missile makes no attack, therefore it gets no Sneak Attack. It works that way even in PnP. Surprise Spells allows to add your Sneak Attack damage to a spell once, so if you use if with Magic Missile it only adds the damage once.

It's obviously an attack, just because something doesn't have an attack roll doesn't make something not an attack. If Magic Missile wasn't an attack then you could use it and not break invisibility, which specifically says "ends if the subject attacks any creature". Surprise spell says nothing about "adding sneak attack damage to spell ONCE", and if it did then fireball wouldn't be able to deal it multiple times. By the only logically consistent interpretation all spells that deal damage should add sneak attack to each instance of damage.

 

[Stavrophore]

The actual real bullshit is that there's no way to see spell casting progressing in game.

Right Click on character level in the progression screen. It's all there moron. If you could give up you retarded faith that it isn't you might even be able to find it yourself.

Where?

Bro why are you so aggressive, and whats the faith you are talking about?

 

[Desiderius]

Because you're lying about a great game. People believe that shit don't play it devs don't eat so we don't get any more.

Stop.

Under the Class tab. What sort of utter moron bitches about an interface you haven't even used?

 

[Average Manatee]

The actual real bullshit is that there's no way to see spell casting progressing in game.

Right Click on character level in the progression screen. It's all there moron. If you could give up you retarded faith that it isn't you might even be able to find it yourself.

I did what you told me to

Seems to me like you might be full of shit.

 

[Stavrophore]

Because you're lying about a great game. People believe that shit don't play it devs don't eat so we don't get any more.

Stop.

What? Im not lying just voicing my opinion. I might be MISINFORMED OR UNINFORMED but not lying, that's why im asking where can i read about all the shit that is either hard to find ingame, in encyclopedia or i have to outright read it from external sources, like ruleset for tabletop game.

I still don't see DC formula explicitly addressed in any of the game tooltips, or the one you provided.

Average Manatee

Is this some mod? My menu looks different.

 

[Desiderius]

No, you're saying it's not there when it is.

That is a lie.

 

[Mortmal]

What is this DC in PK? I can't find a good definition other than some reddit posts.

Here some definition from reddit post:

DC of your spells determined 10 + (level of the spell) + (your casting ability score modifier) + various (like spell focus) bonuses.

Level of the spell is 2, what is the "casting ability score modifier" and from what it derives? Spell focus bonuses? You mean focus on school like conjuration? Why the hell this is not in the game explained properly and i have to read some obscure posts on other websites?

Thats why you have trouble, you dont know the ruleset, you need to work more on your party composition. Linzi is a great support character , her song dirge of doom is mandatory as it applies shaken on foes without any save, then you have unique spells like good hope . One reason linzi dont need to be min maxed, she can heal she can support but she wont overcome magic defenses but she wont have to use such spells she will sing, buff up the party ,heal.

You have not specialized enough. When you want a caster you pick one school and focus on it , then again when i say caster in kingmaker its better to be sorc with high CHA (not int!). The wizard is better in pen and paper, in a computer game focused on combat you pick sorc .You pick the feats related to that school if its conjuration, spell focus conjuration, greater focus conjuration . When you cast stinking cloud the foes will have to roll a save the higher the DC the higher they have to roll so even if this random they evenutally be fucked up sooner or later they roll each rounds . Control spells are extremely powerful
Then if you want better summons you pick augment summoning etc...
Now there's save DC but there's also spell resistance, when your foe has spell resistance you need to overcome it, so you roll a D20 and add CL ( caster level ) . So its random yes but if you add the feat spell penetration and greater spell penetration the odds are much more in your favor,its likely the spell will land.
A good caster is feat starved and need those.It's possible to spec octavia that way if you dont want to pay for a merc. Also set the game on challenging and use turned based mode its closer to the rules if not perfect.

 

[Average Manatee]

Average Manatee

Is this some mod? My menu looks different.

That's the character creation screen. Either way Desiderius is full of shit whether he was referring to the character creation or character sheet.

 

[Average Manatee]

What is this DC in PK? I can't find a good definition other than some reddit posts.

Here some definition from reddit post:

DC of your spells determined 10 + (level of the spell) + (your casting ability score modifier) + various (like spell focus) bonuses.

Level of the spell is 2, what is the "casting ability score modifier" and from what it derives? Spell focus bonuses? You mean focus on school like conjuration? Why the hell this is not in the game explained properly and i have to read some obscure posts on other websites?

Thats why you have trouble, you dont know the ruleset, you need to work more on your party composition. Linzi is a great support character , her song dirge of doom is mandatory as it applies shaken on foes without any save, then you have unique spells like good hope . One reason linzi dont need to be min maxed, she can heal she can support but she wont overcome magic defenses but she wont have to use such spells she will sing, buff up the party ,heal.

You have not specialized enough. When you want a caster you pick one school and focus on it , then again when i say caster in kingmaker its better to be sorc with high CHA (not int!). The wizard is better in pen and paper, in a computer game focused on combat you pick sorc .You pick the feats related to that school if its conjuration, spell focus conjuration, greater focus conjuration . When you cast stinking cloud the foes will have to roll a save the higher the DC the higher they have to roll so even if this random they evenutally be fucked up sooner or later they roll each rounds . Control spells are extremely powerful
Then if you want better summons you pick augment summoning etc...
Now there's save DC but there's also spell resistance, when your foe has spell resistance you need to overcome it, so you roll a D20 and add CL ( caster level ) . So its random yes but if you add the feat spell penetration and greater spell penetration the odds are much more in your favor,its likely the spell will land.
A good caster is feat starved and need those.It's possible to spec octavia that way if you dont want to pay for a merc. Also set the game on challenging and use turned based mode its closer to the rules if not perfect.

TL;DR

Let me simplify it:

- Casters should try to have good spells that target all three DC types (fort/ref/will) along with as many useful buffs as possible, especially long term buffs of at least a minute/level, keeping in mind that buffs of the same type don't stack.
- Anything that ignores saving throws entirely is potential gold worth keeping around forever.
- Focus on some school that seems decent.

You pretty much can't go wrong if you stick to this.

 

[Stavrophore]

Because you're lying about a great game. People believe that shit don't play it devs don't eat so we don't get any more.

Stop.

NOOOOO YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE MY FAVOURITE GAMERINOOOO!!! YOU ARE RETARD, BUT DESPITE THAT YOUR RETARDED INSIGNIFICANT AND IRRELEVANT OPINION WILL HURT DEVS FEELING AND SWAY HUGE AUDIENCE, AND THEY WON'T MAKE A NEW GAME FOR ME TO PLAY!!! YOU ARE DOING THIS TO DROWN ME WITH DECLINE!!!

 

[Desiderius]

Linzi beats magic defenses just fine, you just have to invest in the skills necessary to find which ones to attack.

Not only is Dirge not mandatory now that you can't stack songs with Lingering it's almost always inferior to keeping Courage up since Competence bonuses are so rare. You can get Shaken in any number of other ways.

P:K (in contrast to Wrath) doesn't have enough Feats to get much out of specializing in a certain school. I mean if you're a pure caster you might as well since you don't have much choice beyond spell pen and meta feats, but if you skillfully configure your team and manage your kingdom you can land spells fine with non-specialists.

Amiri is Immune due to good Kingdom Management.

 

[Desiderius]

Because you're lying about a great game. People believe that shit don't play it devs don't eat so we don't get any more.

Stop.

NOOOOO YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE MY FAVOURITE GAMERINOOOO!!! YOU ARE RETARD, BUT DESPITE THAT YOUR INSIGNIFICANT OPINION WILL HURT DEVS FEELING, AND THEY WON'T MAKE A NEW GAME FOR ME TO PLAY!!! YOU ARE DOING THIS TO DROWN ME WITH DECLINE!!!

I criticize it all the time and I don't even have to make shit up to do it.

We can all see the tears bro. Give it up - it isn't worth it.

 

[Stavrophore]

Clusterfuck on this screen look like korean MMO. That's why i prefer TB.