Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Yosharian]

My personal view of COTW is that it bends over backwards to nerf lots of stuff that's in the base game 'muh tabletop rules' then introduces a bunch of new OP shit

If you want to replace one meta with another, go for it

Personally I have my own mod setup that I'm using, it's been extremely challenging so far but I am playing with a very tuned group so it might be too difficult for the average player

Also I haven't taken it further than Varnhold yet

 

[Lemming42]

I've just become the Baroness and this is around where I quit the last few times I tried; it feels like the game's sort of ground to a halt and I'm just pointlessly wandering around the map getting attacked by animals while Amiri fucks up all her duties as my foreign affairs diplomat or w/e I assigned her to.

All Owlcat games make me feel this way, I ended up bailing out of Rogue Trader when the ship minigame stuff started up there too. It feels like it's suddenly become adrift and directionless, with the added awkwardness of having to do this sucky kingdom management minigame. Given how early on in the game I am I'm assuming that the best is yet to come and I've still to see like 85% of what the game has to offer but fucking hell Owlcat don't half have a talent for making me want to quit somewhere in the second act in all their games.

Unarmed build is hilarious btw, thanks for people who gave me suggestions. I seem to be Kenshiro or something, people exploding into bloody ribcages when I touch them.

 

[Yosharian]

Nobody can fuck up your diplomacy if you turn off Kingdom Management

> Given how early on in the game I am I'm assuming that the best is yet to come and I've still to see like 85% of what the game has to offer

Ohnonono

 

[Desiderius]

I've just become the Baroness and this is around where I quit the last few times I tried; it feels like the game's sort of ground to a halt and I'm just pointlessly wandering around the map getting attacked by animals while Amiri fucks up all her duties as my foreign affairs diplomat or w/e I assigned her to.

All Owlcat games make me feel this way, I ended up bailing out of Rogue Trader when the ship minigame stuff started up there too. It feels like it's suddenly become adrift and directionless, with the added awkwardness of having to do this sucky kingdom management minigame. Given how early on in the game I am I'm assuming that the best is yet to come and I've still to see like 85% of what the game has to offer but fucking hell Owlcat don't half have a talent for making me want to quit somewhere in the second act in all their games.

Unarmed build is hilarious btw, thanks for people who gave me suggestions. I seem to be Kenshiro or something, people exploding into bloody ribcages when I touch them.

I usually quit around then too, not because the KM is bad - that's far from the case as there's a tremendous sense of relief from being able to put out the fires caused by having to chase around for two chapters away from your kingdom - but because it's unfinished.

All the endgame KM content does nothing unless those fires left you on the brink of losing the kingdom altogether.

 

[cretin]

Buff mods help immensely.

CotW has a lot of chaff along with the wheat. Proper flanking adds significant difficulty (getting to vanilla functionality requires spending feats) though ostensibly it applies to enemies as well.

see this is the sort of thing I hesitate on. On the one hand, needing to position properly to get flanking bonuses adds a layer, but if it doesnt compensate for the AI in some way its actually easier or a wash. The tabletop flanking mod for WOTR has a setting on by default that gives the enemies gang up when they have two or more attacking one target, which helps to compensate for their lack of positioning ability, but as far as I can read proper flanking for km doesnt have this feature.

 

[Cohesion]

If you want to guarantee that you reach level 20, just use Bag of Tricks to give yourself extra xp

And do it in act I. fantadomat approves! Fucking cheaters.

 

[Desiderius]

Another quick question: which level you "reach" at end game (considering I'm a completitionist)?

Plus do you suggest to share the XP also with companions out of the party? At the moment, I've reached I fair stable party with me, Linzi, the Ranger, Harrim, Amiri and Valeri.

What do you suggest?

Depends if you are doing all the side content or not, I think usually players hit level 20 just before the end

Share XP isn't something you need to worry about, it doesn't work the way you think it works.

You want "Only active companions receive experience" off. You can turn it on in the tutorial and before you've gotten 6 party members to get more XP, then turn it on once you do have 6 (future companions will be autoscaled up to your current XP), but there's really no point in having it on past that unless you intend to game the XP system.

"Only skill user recieves skill check experience" is up to you. If you have a huge persuasion score there's a few checks that give truly ridiculous amounts of XP in a handful of dialogs which can push your main character 1-2 levels ahead of the rest of the party in the late game. This is kind of dubious value though still compared to spreading out the XP. If you do all content including the DLC dungeon your whole party should be level 20 well before the ending.

For sure I'm doing all the content + DLC etc etc. Since I play games just once, I use to do everything I can. I would go kill two mites if I remember I forgot them even when I'm at level 20.
I share XP with all party member both generally and skill-checks-wise. So, I shouldn't be afraid I will not reach level 20 (even if I have read the level 20 is not needed to end the game), appaarently.

Another quick question: which level you "reach" at end game (considering I'm a completitionist)?

Plus do you suggest to share the XP also with companions out of the party? At the moment, I've reached I fair stable party with me, Linzi, the Ranger, Harrim, Amiri and Valeri.

What do you suggest?

The default is that experience is divided six ways then shared with all companions, even those not in the party.

Certain locations will have recommended companions to go there that you can see by mousing over them. A few of those are required.

That's an exceptionally low magic party outside of Harrim, who has some relatively narrow Domains. You have very little Arcane casting available. You're nearing the point of the game where Octavia really takes off but Jubilost can fill some of that gap while his bombs have high DC debuffs along with damage.

I usually alternate Val and Harrim to tank since he gets +4 AC vs giants (including Trolls and Zombies). Tristian is more of a classic Cleric while your main can also cover most divine casting needs.

To be honest, since I'm an Inquisitor too, at the moment I have good feelings (and results) with this party. Harrim and Linzi are honestly very useful in filtering the enemies with their spells and abilities. I can add some more filtering with my spells. And then, both Harrim and Linzi che buff with their spells and I can do it with scrolls and potions. It is also true that I face every single challenge a level higher than other people do, maybe.

Yesterday I've tried to face Crag Linnamon with my party buffed against fire damage, but it still made whatever he wanted of my party.

There is no quest that sends you there.

All it takes to get his treasure is an Invisibility effect. Vanish is a first-level spell, and a good one:



This pic look like I used Blind to kill him at level 7 Unfair?



Spit Venom is no save Blindness but doesn't work in Wrath on mobs that are immune to Poison. Not sure if Linnorm is not, or that wasn't implemented in P:K, or if I just ranched him without it.

Jub's Bombs and Octavia's Blasts are Touch attax so get around his massive Natural Armor.

 

[Desiderius]

If you want to guarantee that you reach level 20, just use Bag of Tricks to give yourself extra xp

And do it in act I. fantadomat approves! Fucking cheaters.

He does have a point.

This is why I started just leaving the EXP sharing on the default. With the DLCs both games have more than enough legit EXP available to get where you need to be to experience all the levels.

 

[Litmanen]

If you want to guarantee that you reach level 20, just use Bag of Tricks to give yourself extra xp

And do it in act I. fantadomat approves! Fucking cheaters.

He does have a point.

This is why I started just leaving the EXP sharing on the default. With the DLCs both games have more than enough legit EXP available to get where you need to be to experience all the levels.

I will not use any bag of tricks, indeed.

Preset build to exploit rules + bag of tricks + mod to respec when you want + mod to change alignment to restore your powers... than what else? It would be no more Pathfinder: Kingmaker

 

[skaraher]

Early fight against the Crag Linnorn is a good challenge. Don't forget Cold iron.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Early fight against the Crag Linnorn is a good challenge. Don't forget Cold iron.

Coup de grace also works but it have good save throw against that.

 

[jakkis]

My personal view of COTW is that it bends over backwards to nerf lots of stuff that's in the base game 'muh tabletop rules' then introduces a bunch of new OP shit

Not new more like ancient

 

[Yosharian]

I will not use any bag of tricks, indeed.

Preset build to exploit rules + bag of tricks + mod to respec when you want + mod to change alignment to restore your powers... than what else? It would be no more Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.

I'm not 'exploiting' game rules any more than anyone else. I'm just using the rules the game laid out in order to create something interesting to me. You wanna have a good cry about that be my guest, but please don't act like I'm 'exploiting'.

Bag of Tricks is primarily used to fix bugs and other problems with the game.

Respec is used purely to allow me to use companions with my own builds - I could just as easily use mercenaries and nothing would change except the builds would become stronger because I would be able to pick custom races, too.

Alignment fix is used because Owlcat interpreted alignment rules incorrectly. Not because I can't handle playing within an alignment.

 

[Jermu]

if you use mod to respec companion without paying hiring mercenary cost fee then its semi cheating but you have an option to pay that cost anyway
I also find it boring to use premade builds the best thing about pathfinder games is to test + figure out your own builds (yes it makes game easier to play with mercs)

 

[Litmanen]

Early fight against the Crag Linnorn is a good challenge. Don't forget Cold iron.

I also wrote a will

 

[Yosharian]

if you use mod to respec companion without paying hiring mercenary cost fee then its semi cheating but you have an option to pay that cost anyway
I also find it boring to use premade builds the best thing about pathfinder games is to test + figure out your own builds (yes it makes game easier to play with mercs)

Irrelevant, the cost is insignificant in the long term, and it's not interesting to optimise heavily for the first 30 mins of the game

As for making the game easier, it's also irrelevant because a) using shitty builds isn't an interesting way to create difficulty b) you still need to use mods to create proper difficulty anyway

 

[Jermu]

if you use mod to respec companion without paying hiring mercenary cost fee then its semi cheating but you have an option to pay that cost anyway
I also find it boring to use premade builds the best thing about pathfinder games is to test + figure out your own builds (yes it makes game easier to play with mercs)

Irrelevant, the cost is insignificant in the long term, and it's not interesting to optimise heavily for the first 30 mins of the game

As for making the game easier, it's also irrelevant because a) using shitty builds isn't an interesting way to create difficulty b) you still need to use mods to create proper difficulty anyway

early game is the hardest part in both games at least unfair when you can't afford to buy mercenaries so obviously the cost is relevant
thats like saying borrowing 100k gold act 1 and "paying" it back chapter 4 does not make game easier

 

[Yosharian]

Yes I know it's the hardest part, but what I'm saying is that it isn't interesting to optimise for that part of the game specifically.

For example I could just play with default characters for the first hour of the game and then buy my mercs, wow that took a lot of theorycrafting and was very satisfying to problem solve

Ultimately purists who look down on respec mod users will find any justification, no matter how flimsy it is, to prove that their way of playing is superior

I've heard all these arguments before, 'you're cheating', 'it's not real Kingmaker', 'you're ruining the game balance', etc etc it's boring and facile.

 

[Average Manatee]

The cost of hiring a full merc group is fairly substantial at all points in the game, and mercs don't make good advisors due to the penalty (which means you have to split up stat boosters between mercs and advisors). So there is some fairly substantial benefit. But I agree that optimizing for the early game isn't interesting. And replaying with the same companion classes isn't either

 

[Lemming42]

Ohnonono

This comment is haunting me with its ambiguity. Go on, tell me what I'm in for. I keep trying to play but I manage like 20 minutes max before giving up and doing something else. Is it worth pushing ahead?

 

[Barbarian]

I have been replaying this after years, it is a seriously a better game than trannywrath even without all the quality of life and engine improvements. I have been chugging along on unfair but might give up as it has had equal doses of "challenging" and "needlessly annoying".

It is better than WOTR on vibes alone. There are just not enough rpgs that do the whole "start as a nobody and become king". Ironic because it should be as common as the "be the chosen one and save the world" trope. Being forced into being "knight commander of the 32nd tranny rainbow brigade" just doesn't cut it.

I have some question about mechanics. If I have two rogues with double debilitation(namely MC and Nok-Nok) attacking the same enemy an applying "bewildering" and "disorienting" injuries, how will the numbers apply? I know they don't stack and the first part of the effects is clear enough(a flat -2 to attack rolls and AC). It is the second part of the effect which I ask about(an extra -2 to AC against the rogue's attacks and extra-2 ro attack rolls against the rogue).

Will this second effect apply to both MC and NN? Or only to the first or last rogue to apply these effects to the enemy? I ask because if it is the latter it might be better/more efficient to not invest a talent on double debilitation and keep each character with a single different effect. Otherwise full benefit would only happen if both attack different enemies, which is not optimal considering how flanking is so important in this game.

 

[Average Manatee]

Ohnonono

This comment is haunting me with its ambiguity. Go on, tell me what I'm in for. I keep trying to play but I manage like 20 minutes max before giving up and doing something else. Is it worth pushing ahead?

I think he's just referring to the fact that the best polished and balanced content is frontloaded. If you've finished the troll chapter and aren't interested in continuing then don't. The next 2 chapters stay about the same but after that is a significant drop in quality and a significant increase in the kingdom time wasting.

Will this second effect apply to both MC and NN? Or only to the first or last rogue to apply these effects to the enemy? I ask because if it is the latter it might be better/more efficient to not invest a talent on double debilitation and keep each character with a single different effect. Otherwise full benefit would only happen if both attack different enemies, which is not optimal considering how flanking is so important in this game.

Best to just use bag of tricks to cheat them up a few levels and check. I doubt many people are using two rogues in the same party. Though if they could stack and both characters could use them then that might be an interesting advantage.

 

[Desiderius]

if you use mod to respec companion without paying hiring mercenary cost fee then its semi cheating but you have an option to pay that cost anyway
I also find it boring to use premade builds the best thing about pathfinder games is to test + figure out your own builds (yes it makes game easier to play with mercs)

Making the companions the game gives you the best team they can be *with their starting classes* teaches you a helluva lot more about the game and ruleset than starting out burdened by your uberleet pre-conceived notions from other games the alternative to which you then never get to experience. That appears to be half of what they're for.

Once *that* is mastered then yes respec via mod or in-game function is great because it allows you to test ten new classes at a time and how they fit together with each replay.

 

[Desiderius]

There's nothing time-wasting about the KM until its already solved (way too early).

In that stretch you're unlocking the best items in the game and racing to get new areas in your Kingdom so your snowballing Kingdom bonuses (like Immunity to Confusion) apply to them.

If you think KM is wasting time during Ch2-5 you simply suck at the game.

 

[Desiderius]

I have been replaying this after years, it is a seriously a better game than trannywrath even without all the quality of life and engine improvements. I have been chugging along on unfair but might give up as it has had equal doses of "challenging" and "needlessly annoying".

It is better than WOTR on vibes alone. There are just not enough rpgs that do the whole "start as a nobody and become king". Ironic because it should be as common as the "be the chosen one and save the world" trope. Being forced into being "knight commander of the 32nd tranny rainbow brigade" just doesn't cut it.

I have some question about mechanics. If I have two rogues with double debilitation(namely MC and Nok-Nok) attacking the same enemy an applying "bewildering" and "disorienting" injuries, how will the numbers apply? I know they don't stack and the first part of the effects is clear enough(a flat -2 to attack rolls and AC). It is the second part of the effect which I ask about(an extra -2 to AC against the rogue's attacks and extra-2 ro attack rolls against the rogue).

Will this second effect apply to both MC and NN? Or only to the first or last rogue to apply these effects to the enemy? I ask because if it is the latter it might be better/more efficient to not invest a talent on double debilitation and keep each character with a single different effect. Otherwise full benefit would only happen if both attack different enemies, which is not optimal considering how flanking is so important in this game.

Your best bet is just leaving Nok Nok at home lol. Too much duplication of effort. I guess if you want him for Gob Village he sticks around for end of that chapter but not many benefits to doubling up on MC's class.