Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Delterius]

Swarm is too hardcore evil to have an alignment.

 

[ChildInTime]

Lich is lawful evil because of story reasons. Your lich mentor is an oathbound undead guardian. Evil, yes, but also very very lawful.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Here is for all of you who always wanted to roleplay as an unrepentant dick Nagash.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

Yeah, yeah... but where's THE CROWN?!

 

[Ibn Sina]

Is tbere a devil mythic path? Not demonic, but devil.

 

[Shinros]

Is tbere a devil mythic path? Not demonic, but devil.

Apparently,

Spoiler

I heard Aeon works with devils according to the discord, I'm working through an Aeon run right now since it has some pretty interesting story implications if it is anything like Lich.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Is tbere a devil mythic path? Not demonic, but devil.

Not officially. On KS updates Owlcat made a *wink* *wink* about it being some sort of secret Devil path but nothing is confirmed.

 

[Shinros]

Not officially. On KS updates Owlcat made a *wink* *wink* about it being some sort of secret Devil path but nothing is confirmed.

I thought they said on stream they scrapped it? I recall someone asking a question around it.

Spoiler

I think it's likely that they put the devil stuff in the Aeon mythic path. Since according to a poster Aeon gets an advisor from hell itself.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Not officially. On KS updates Owlcat made a *wink* *wink* about it being some sort of secret Devil path but nothing is confirmed.

I thought they said on stream they scrapped it? I recall someone asking a question around it.

Spoiler

I think it's likely that they put the devil stuff in the Aeon mythic path. Since according to a poster Aeon gets an advisor from hell itself.

Ah I don't watch much dev livestream so I wouldn't know. Probably will see how Aeon turns out as I am in process of playing one (still in Ch 2). Considering that the Devil hates the Demon (as them fucking up the world is against the Devil contract for your soul schtick) it is logical that they would support Aoen that want to return the natural order I guess. Not sure whether that will develop more or not.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Are they the same thing? is it like a archetype that you can choose? like Worms, locusts, ants?

Different name, same subject. The original "Worm-That-Walks" is from a Lovecraft short and was just assorted maggots and worms. The Swarm-part was likely added to make it more inclusive for winged arthropods and multi-legged arachnids instead of just crawling myriapoda.

 

[Xamenos]

Warm-that-Walks was changed to Swarm-that-Walks to tie it to Deskari, the Demon Lord of Locusts, who is involved in the adventure path.

 

[Desiderius]

So is it possible to Make Arueshalae Proper Demon Again? It seems she rejects the protagonist if he becomes a demon and is very stubborn in her believe in redemption.

Going by the Lich artwork, you can make her evil again. I suspect it has to do with her personal quest. Right now I'm curious about Aeon, just from what I've seen so far working through the Alpha it looks like it won't be sunshine and rainbows. The Aeon considers the wardstone an affront to the natural order and its quite heavy handed when it comes to traitors going by the ghouls in the chapel.

Considering the spoiler, I was right I think Aeon would make a certain succubus companion evil again.

They're neutral, not evil.

 

[Shinros]

They're neutral, not evil.

I know, I'm talking about the case where Aeon will put the law, natural order and punishing traitors before what is morally right or wrong. Such an event occurs when,

Spoiler

During the chapel scene with the Ghouls, when they're trying to convert the crusaders a female soldier submits and the Aeon choice there is where you order another soldier to apprehend the "apostate" for treachery. The queen is not pleased by your choice after the battle because the soldier was panicking, she tells you that they won't win against the demons using such methods. Of course, the PC can bite back with various responses stating that's why they haven't won a crusade because of traitors and how they're dealt with. The Aeon considers the wardstone an act of "good" to be an affront of the natural order, far more than the demons walking around murdering people. Hence my opinion that it's not going to be sunshine and rainbows, I'm also quite curious about the possibility of the Aeon mythic path hooking up with devils. This was mentioned on the discord. In the case of your succubus companion? Per the laws of the world demons are meant to be evil, her redemption occured at the hands of a chaotic entity. She even has a line about the Aeon PC according to datamine, she wants you to "punish" her lol.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

They're neutral, not evil.

I know, I'm talking about the case where Aeon will put the law, natural order and punishing traitors before what is morally right or wrong. Such an event occurs when,

Spoiler

During the chapel scene with the Ghouls, when they're trying to convert the crusaders a female soldier submits and the Aeon choice there is where you order another soldier to apprehend the "apostate" for treachery. The queen is not pleased by your choice after the battle because the soldier was panicking, she tells you that they won't win against the demons using such methods. Of course, the PC can bite back with various responses stating that's why they haven't won a crusade because of traitors and how they're dealt with. The Aeon considers the wardstone an act of "good" to be an affront of the natural order, far more than the demons walking around murdering people. Hence my opinion that it's not going to be sunshine and rainbows, I'm also quite curious about the possibility of the Aeon mythic path hooking up with devils. This was mentioned on the discord. In the case of your succubus companion? Per the laws of the world demons are meant to be evil, her redemption occured at the hands of a chaotic entity. She even has a line about the Aeon PC according to datamine, she wants you to "punish" her lol.

Yeah and as I point out, the Chapel scene makes 0 sense about the Aeon. It honestly just annoy me on my Aeon playthrough now because I am expecting more than Lawful Neutral/Stupid but that Chapel scene kinda makes me expect that any future Aeon path will be just that.

 

[Shinros]

Yeah and as I point out, the Chapel scene makes 0 sense about the Aeon. It honestly just annoy me on my Aeon playthrough now because I am expecting more than Lawful Stupid but that Chapel scene kinda makes me expect that any future Aeon path will be just that.

Well in a sense you're right, but that part didn't take me out of the story personally. The writers did say that the Aeon is written as cosmic judge dredd. It's going into the extreme spectrum of law. The Aeon, depending on how far will you go is going to ignore the nuances of morality. It doesn't care for it.

Spoiler

To me, in that scene a normal person would rally your troops who are under distress, which you can do. But using the eyes and mindset of an Aeon they would just see a mob of cowards who break and turn traitor at the first sign of adversity. The Aeon would move to correct the flaw in the system over what a normal person would do in that situation. The PC can essentially state that reasoning to the queen. Regill makes it abundantly clear that they're on the "fifth" crusade, he states the reason for failure is because of the overall lack of ability among the crusaders. The only individuals who would get along with an Aeon would be Hellknights, I actually think that owlcat wrote that mythic path for that class in mind. Anyway, that's just my opinion surrounding that specific scene.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Yeah and as I point out, the Chapel scene makes 0 sense about the Aeon. It honestly just annoy me on my Aeon playthrough now because I am expecting more than Lawful Stupid but that Chapel scene kinda makes me expect that any future Aeon path will be just that.

Well in a sense you're right, but that part didn't take me out of the story personally. The writers did say that the Aeon is written as cosmic judge dredd. It's going into the extreme spectrum of law. The Aeon, depending on how far will you go is going to ignore the nuances of morality. It doesn't care for it.

Spoiler

To me, in that scene a normal person would rally your troops who are under distress, which you can do. But using the eyes and mindset of an Aeon they would just see a mob of cowards who break and turn traitor at the first sign of adversity. The Aeon would move to correct the flaw in the system over what a normal person would do in that situation. Regill makes it abundantly clear that they're on the "fifth" crusader stating the overall lack of ability among the crusaders. The only individuals who would get along with an Aeon would be Hellknights, I actually think that owlcat wrote that mythic path for that class in mind. Anyway, that's just my opinion surrounding that specific scene.

Spoiler

The problem is not morality, the problem is consistency I think.

Demon and Devil summoning, for example is something that happens in PF world normally. In case of Devil I guess you could say it is Lawful, but in the end of the day on planar level they are not supposed to be there, especially Demon. So is turning people into Ghoul/Undead which normally happens under small enough scale every single time (the "lawful" thing that should happen to dead souls are going to Pharasma, so yeah creating undead is unlawful as it gets). Heck it is even a motivation/characterization of Aeon when you pick the dagger the first time around: that everything dies and should go to the afterlife yada yada, good stays where good things are, evil stays where evil things are, mortal plane is for mortal.

But Worldwound fucks that up on major scale. And then the gods intervention also fucks it up even more. And then there is the Wardstones (which I was completely agree that it should be gone, at least as far as Aeon characterization goes). In this case Aeon takes action when something tips the scale of balance really badly, unfortunately they get fucked hard as they were not strong enough, hence we picking the banner. You don't see Aeon going after every single Necromancer/Cultist/Demon summoner as that are within the margin of error, so to speak.

The problem is what happens in the Chapel should beneath the notice of Aeon. It is not something special in any way. I won't be this anal about it if it is just left as Lawful option without the Aeon tag.

 

[Shinros]

Spoiler

The problem is not morality, the problem is consistency I think.

Demon and Devil summoning, for example is something that happens in PF world normally. In case of Devil I guess you could say it is Lawful, but in the end of the day on planar level they are not supposed to be there, especially Demon. So is turning people into Ghoul/Undead which normally happens under small enough scale every single time (the "lawful" thing that should happen to dead souls are going to Pharasma, so yeah creating undead is unlawful as it gets). Heck it is even a motivation/characterization of Aeon when you pick the dagger the first time around: that everything dies and should go to the afterlife yada yada, good stays where good things are, evil stays where evil things are, mortal plane is for mortal.

But Worldwound fucks that up on major scale. And then the gods intervention also fucks it up even more. And then there is the Wardstones (which I was completely agree that it should be gone, at least as far as Aeon characterization goes). In this case Aeon takes action when something tips the scale of balance really badly, unfortunately they get fucked hard as they were not strong enough, hence we picking the banner. You don't see Aeon going after every single Necromancer/Cultist/Demon summoner as that are within the margin of error, so to speak.

The problem is what happens in the Chapel should beneath the notice of Aeon. It is not something special in any way. I won't be this anal about it if it is just left as Lawful option without the Aeon tag.

Spoiler

True, I agree with your premise, but the PC isn't an Aeon yet. You were just gifted the dying Aeon's vision in return for helping it as it dissipated after it dealt with the wardstone. My view of that scene is that the Aeon pc is acting out because the crusaders are failing due to their current system, which in the Aeon's eyes is inefficient or in other words broken. You don't debate morality with the queen, you are telling her that the system and how she ran the crusades is fundamentally broken. Hence why the female soldier turned traitor and why you are punishing her. You're job as Knight Commander is to stop the demons, the dying Aeon also wants the demons gone when you found it, but considered the wardstone a greater concern. Overall an Aeon PC wouldn't tolerate a crappy system. Regill constantly bleats about how crusaders have poor discipline and poor training, he outright states it upon seeing the conversion scene. To me that scene is a small microcosm of the PC starting to change as an individual. In that scene, Galfrey, the queen is the normal one here. You're not. That scene is one step on the path of the PC's mind becoming warped as it throws aside the nuances of morality.

 

[Cyberarmy]

HoMM in our RPG, what a time to be alive!

 

[Roguey]

the construction of buildings

FFS

 

[NJClaw]

Oh God, this is going to be the clunkiest shit ever, isn't it?

Knowing how they handled something as simple and barebone as kingdom management in Kingmaker, just the thought of how badly this will play out makes me shiver.

I'm excited about the whole "fighting with units stacks" minigame, though.

 

[Sykar]

I probably missed it but which Mythic paths will be available at launch?

 

[smaug]

Please get rid of building construction Owlcat...

 

[Ghulgothas]

I probably missed it but which Mythic paths will be available at launch?

All of them.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Updated crusade system primer: https://forum.owlcatgames.com/t/commanders-handbook-pt-2-new-instructions/28839 (luj1 wept)

Oops! That page doesn’t exist or is private.

WTF?

 

[Thonius]

It's alpha, that's why it's locked. Log in to view.

 

[Dodo1610]

The real question is how many loading screen did they add for this and can I skip it?