Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[InD_ImaginE]

So how bad is the camera rotation? Do you have to constantly adjust it?

I just don't see any benefit to it, just an unnecessary hassle.

Personally, it is fine, I do think they need a button to default the camera to how it is on the map.

The benefit honestly it's not for the player per se but for the game. This is perhaps will only be obvious in Marketplace (Ch 1) or the siege of Drezden (end of Ch 2). Cities/fortress actually feel like one now tall buildings, walls, etc. See that wall in front of you in the "default" camera? There are stairs, behind them you can get the walls on to kill that ash giant using catapult against your soldier. While it is perhaps possible to do so in a fixed isometric view, it will involve a lot of your units walking as silhouettes behind walls (and you not actually knowing there is stair behind those walls) which can be annoying. In WoR due to the rotatable camera, you ended up with area design that is unconstrained with "how to make area that is not cluttered so that it will look good on fixed isometric view."

The Siege of Drezden is everything how Pitax in PfK should be.

 

[Lawntoilet]

The Siege of Drezden is everything how Pitax in PfK should be.

The big setpiece fights are great so far. The assault on Defender's Heart, the Lost Chapel, and the seige of Drezen are massive

 

[InD_ImaginE]

the Lost Chapel

Yeah, this is also good to a lesser degree. Area design like Lost Chapel will not work on a fixed isometric view (it is basically a big spiral walk from the bottom to the peak of a hill where the Chapel resides).

 

[InternalRevenue]

Currently on early Chapter 3.
Camellia is a 19 Dex built shaman which is a much better tank than Seelah can ever hope to be (I switch between them just to be fresh). Icaplant Hex gives 2 Natural AC (not Natural Enhancement mind you) that otherwise other normal tanking class won't be able to get. Her Battle Spirit and Shaman spell lists are making her very strong frontline. Overall very satisfied with her being a shaman so probably not going to fork her into anything else on Beta/full game.

She's got the Owlcat Original archetype with magus weapon enchantments yes? Don't suppose weapon spells like shillelagh, flame blade, and produce flame are in the game? Quite enjoy the thought of melee touch attacks with a keen shocking Flame Blade of speed.

 

[Black_Willow]

A Devil path sounds even more appealing that the already heavily advertised Lich one.

So anyhow, for the Pathfinder lorefags out there, how does one turn into a Devil and where would one presumably fit within the Infernal Hierarchy?

Traditionally, the way is pretty rigid, as befitting of the Nine Hells.
First step is to ensure you take actions during your life that will have your soul end up there. The easiest is to just sell your soul to a Devil, but there's a risk your soul will end up consumed instead. You have to be careful wording the contract, but you don't deserve to be a Devil otherwise. Alternatively, you have to be LE and live your life to the full according to your alignment, not be a pious follower of a god that will take you to his realm, and not be an atheist (Pharasma will lock you up in her vault if you are). Devoutly worshiping Asmodeus is probably your best bet, but not the only one.
Second step is the easiest by far. You just have to die and not be resurrected.
Third step is where it gets unpleasant. If you did step 1 right, you'll end up in Hell as a petitioner. You'll then spend ages getting tortured until you either break or become cleansed of any lingering mortal frailties like empathy and such. If you break from the torture, your soul will get used for something or other and you will cease to exist entirely. If you don't break, you will eventually be turned into a Lemure, the lowest of Devils. Congratulations!
Fourth step is to advance in the hierarchy and get turned into progressively stronger forms (an advancement always involving torture and excruciating pain), but that's beyond the scope of this guide. Just use your wits.

Mythic Devil will, fortunately, almost certainly skip the usual method. I wouldn't be surprised if the epilogue has you installed as a Duke of Hell after delivering a crushing victory against the hated Demons and probably instating the second devil-worshiping nation in Golarion.

Ok then, so how can one become a fiery-sword-wielding angel instead?

 

[Thonius]

this far they havent revealed any bog standard fighter type npc right? everyone NEEDS to BE UNIQUE AND INTERESTING AND WHATTHE FUCK. no love for some boring fighter fighiting for a pennie or two and to see another day.
no bard/skald also, which sucks because it will force me to make one such merc but on the other hand i want as many UNIQUE AND INTERESTING npcs as i can get.

For Companions we have:

With 11 being a Scrollmaster Wizard.

The image is from back in March, so things may have changed or been revealed since then, such as number 11.

Arushalae's kit is Espionage Expert, which is a Cha-based Ranger. No pet but gets Slayer's Quarry feature.
Camellia is TN

Spoiler

but actually CE

Daeran is NE (Life Mystery FWIW)
Greybor is a TN Slayer
Companion #11 is Nenio, TN Human (but possibly Kitsune) Scroll Savant

Venebug or what's her name.

 

[Xamenos]

A Devil path sounds even more appealing that the already heavily advertised Lich one.

So anyhow, for the Pathfinder lorefags out there, how does one turn into a Devil and where would one presumably fit within the Infernal Hierarchy?

Traditionally, the way is pretty rigid, as befitting of the Nine Hells.
First step is to ensure you take actions during your life that will have your soul end up there. The easiest is to just sell your soul to a Devil, but there's a risk your soul will end up consumed instead. You have to be careful wording the contract, but you don't deserve to be a Devil otherwise. Alternatively, you have to be LE and live your life to the full according to your alignment, not be a pious follower of a god that will take you to his realm, and not be an atheist (Pharasma will lock you up in her vault if you are). Devoutly worshiping Asmodeus is probably your best bet, but not the only one.
Second step is the easiest by far. You just have to die and not be resurrected.
Third step is where it gets unpleasant. If you did step 1 right, you'll end up in Hell as a petitioner. You'll then spend ages getting tortured until you either break or become cleansed of any lingering mortal frailties like empathy and such. If you break from the torture, your soul will get used for something or other and you will cease to exist entirely. If you don't break, you will eventually be turned into a Lemure, the lowest of Devils. Congratulations!
Fourth step is to advance in the hierarchy and get turned into progressively stronger forms (an advancement always involving torture and excruciating pain), but that's beyond the scope of this guide. Just use your wits.

Mythic Devil will, fortunately, almost certainly skip the usual method. I wouldn't be surprised if the epilogue has you installed as a Duke of Hell after delivering a crushing victory against the hated Demons and probably instating the second devil-worshiping nation in Golarion.

Ok then, so how can one become a fiery-sword-wielding angel instead?

The general process is the same. Live your life according to a specific plane's principles -> die -> get sent there -> spend ages as a petitioner becoming more and more attuned with the plane's philosophy -> possibly transform into an outsider native to the plane. The specifics vary, of course (becoming an Archon involves far, far less torture than becoming a Devil). Opportunities for advancement depend mostly on the Law - Chaos axis (good, competent service will see you promoted both in the Nine Hells and in Mount Celestia, while Elysium and the Abyss favor showing initiative and bravery). And not every mortal soul succeeds in becoming an outsider, or even wants to. Nor was every outsider a mortal once. But the general mechanics of it are not so different between planes.

 

[Desiderius]

Angel seems like the default.

 

[Sarkile]

Personally, it is fine, I do think they need a button to default the camera to how it is on the map.

At a minimum, something that displays your current view angle on the map would help a lot. There were a number of times that I struggled to figure out which way is north, or where to go next on the map after rotating a lot.

 

[oldmanpaco]

So my negros the only thing I really liked less about PFK vs BG2 was the spell combat. Your spell casters were basically melee enemy de-buffers because the spell system was pretty limited. I mean you didn't even need a mage if you had an Alchemist along. Is the spell combat improved? Are contingencies or sequencers implemented? Do those even exist in pathfinder?

All I'm saying is that it would be nice if an enemy wizard would throw a dispel at the party from time to time. Or if there was even a need to throw the PF equivalent of Breach at an enemy.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

oldmanpaco Vehemently agree with you. Pathfinder does actually have most of the BG2 repertiore that made it exceptional, but they didn't bother to put them in. D&D 3E also took major offense to spell casters having good defensive spells against weapons. Mirror Image is basically a gimped 2E Stoneskin. We've got no Mantles or Protection from (magical) Weapons. No Mislead (CRPG version very different from PnP). The list goes on. They spent all this time bragging about their spellcrafting tool and how they could do anything they wanted very reliably and efficiently...yet we lack BG2 casting glory. It's the only real piece missing from this puzzle. Remedy that, and Owlcat could take the crown--undisputed.

 

[fantadomat]

Wait, why is "Additional Enemy Behaviors" off even on Hard? Do they plan to add "Unfair" later on??

They might be adding Unfair at some point, not sure. Additional Behaviors isn't implemented yet though.

Yeah,but the legend one is you still being a human, i take it will be also the hardest one.

Yes but you can't just ignore the Mythic path until you unlock Legend.

Spoiler

You have to soft-lock in your choice at the end of Chapter 2 (Angel, Demon, Lich, Trickster, Aeon, or Azata) and you have to take at least 1 level in one of these paths. Then later in the game you can branch into Dragon, Swarm, or Devil, or give up your powers that you've gotten so far which (allegedly) refunds your Mythic levels and unlocks Legend.

That part is past the Alpha but the data-miners dug it out of the files.

Geee that is stupid lol. Do hope they fix this shit. Legend should be when you ignore all that degenerate shit and just power trough with your standard levels without using any legendary levels!

 

[Vilaar]

Spoiler

vs

Does anyone know smth about the first guy? I know he is a cleric, but is there any advantage in using him while we have the oracle guy? Wonder if one of those superior in terms of healing ability and other features.

 

[CaesarCzech]

Just realized that Owlcat might want to make Arushae and Camillia as sort of Paraller. one is fixed the other broken and you can break the fixed one and fix the broken one. so common sense i think Camillia isnt stuck as Batshit crazy, i dont think writers can resist this.

Hell Arushae started out Broken got fixed and you can break hell again. Camillia started out fixed was broken and you can fix her again, it just fits too well as a paraller.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Spoiler

vs

Does anyone know smth about the first guy? I know he is a cleric, but is there any advantage in using him while we have the oracle guy? Wonder if one of those superior in terms of healing ability and other features.

Sosiel (Cleric) is a good healer (he's a Cleric after all) and is easy to build as a reach weapon backup fighter. Daeran (Oracle) is a better healer, not as flexible with his casting due to being a spontaneous caster. I don’t feel like I'm using Daeran optimally but he is still really effective. I don’t use Sosiel much because I don't need anyone else in melee and because he is the most boring companion in the alpha.

 

[Shadenuat]

So my negros the only thing I really liked less about PFK vs BG2 was the spell combat. Your spell casters were basically melee enemy de-buffers because the spell system was pretty limited. I mean you didn't even need a mage if you had an Alchemist along. Is the spell combat improved? Are contingencies or sequencers implemented? Do those even exist in pathfinder?

All I'm saying is that it would be nice if an enemy wizard would throw a dispel at the party from time to time. Or if there was even a need to throw the PF equivalent of Breach at an enemy.

It's not that d&d didn't have these spells but I feel like counter on counter combat as we know it was a bit of a Bioware accident, further made into a thing by modders. I don't remember say any NWN have it to same level. It's also a 50/50 thing, like time limits and alignments, some people like it, some want it to end as quick as possible. It also requires some heavy ai scripting to reach full potential.
Current design groupthink seems to lean heavier on stacking modifiers and "soft" caps, not hard counters and puzzle gameplay.
As such I doubt we will ever see anything like that reemerge in its full glory unless experienced modders step in.

 

[Desiderius]

Spoiler

vs

Does anyone know smth about the first guy? I know he is a cleric, but is there any advantage in using him while we have the oracle guy? Wonder if one of those superior in terms of healing ability and other features.

Sosiel (Cleric) is a good healer (he's a Cleric after all) and is easy to build as a reach weapon backup fighter. Daeran (Oracle) is a better healer, not as flexible with his casting due to being a spontaneous caster. I don’t feel like I'm using Daeran optimally but he is still really effective. I don’t use Sosiel much because I don't need anyone else in melee and because he is the most boring companion in the alpha.

Sosiel has Touch of Good and his other Domain looks interesting as well. I’ll see what I can do this playthrough.

 

[oldmanpaco]

So my negros the only thing I really liked less about PFK vs BG2 was the spell combat. Your spell casters were basically melee enemy de-buffers because the spell system was pretty limited. I mean you didn't even need a mage if you had an Alchemist along. Is the spell combat improved? Are contingencies or sequencers implemented? Do those even exist in pathfinder?

All I'm saying is that it would be nice if an enemy wizard would throw a dispel at the party from time to time. Or if there was even a need to throw the PF equivalent of Breach at an enemy.

It's not that d&d didn't have these spells but I feel like counter on counter combat as we know it was a bit of a Bioware accident, further made into a thing by modders. I don't remember say any NWN have it to same level. It's also a 50/50 thing, like time limits and alignments, some people like it, some want it to end as quick as possible. It also requires some heavy ai scripting to reach full potential.
Current design groupthink seems to lean heavier on stacking modifiers and "soft" caps, not hard counters and puzzle gameplay.
As such I doubt we will ever see anything like that reemerge in its full glory unless experienced modders step in.

Yeah BGT didn't really hit full potential until the SCS guy rewrote the enemy spellcasting AI.

Wasn't there something about making the game more moddable in the KS? Or am I just imagining things?

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

Maybe additional behaviors will have the AI using dispel effects. Bullying the lowest saves on the team with control spells is also something I think the AI could stand to do more of.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

By the way, would anyone playing the Early Access be so kind as to post all the available portraits? I'm curious about their style. Thank you.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Wasn't there something about making the game more moddable in the KS?

Yes.

Spoiler

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I don't think normal enemies are using Dispel all that much. There are like 1 or 2 bosses that use it at the beginning I think?

What is kinda decent is that the enemies are currently throwing shit at you that have a decent synergy.

In Chapter 3 a common enemy group is 2 or 3 spellcasters that use Ennervation and WIS ability score damage spell (I am not sure what), and a bunch of Phantasmal Spells on you (Killer, Fireball, and Web mostly) while using Mirror Image in between to prevent getting sniped. Usually, this group will always start far enough behind that you will be engaged to their melee meatshield while they are casting shit. Seems good right? It certainly has synergy.

Later on, enter the same group, but replace 1 of them with 1 bard that will always open with Mind Fog and then using Confusion or Song of Discord to make your guys kill themselves. And because Phantsamal spells target Will, it synergies with the old group of mages. Some other mage will also throw a fucking Blade Barrier to cut your melee movement off too when they are in the enemy compo.

I certainly have been killed twice or thrice in that dungeon when Arue (which has relative low WIll Save) decided it is a good idea to sick 5 arrows to my commander head while having Sense Vitals. Or Wolfjit and Greybor suddenly gank rape Cam/Seelah in the frontline.

I certainly hope the extra AI behavior will make this better.

Oh and in general bosses (and strong optional encounters ) are usually pre-buffed decently so they can focus on killing you. They usually pre-cast attributes enhancing spells (Bull STR, Bear END, etc) and some defensive spells Blur, Mage Armor with permanent duration so you need to Dispel if you want to remove their buff. Some spells like Mirror Image, Divine Favor they will still cast normally tho.

 

[Ontopoly]

I don't think normal enemies are using Dispel all that much. There are like 1 or 2 bosses that use it at the beginning I think?

What is kinda decent is that the enemies are currently throwing shit at you that have a decent synergy.

In Chapter 3 a common enemy group is 2 or 3 spellcasters that use Ennervation and WIS ability score damage spell (I am not sure what), and a bunch of Phantasmal Spells on you (Killer, Fireball, and Web mostly) while using Mirror Image in between to prevent getting sniped. Usually, this group will always start far enough behind that you will be engaged to their melee meatshield while they are casting shit. Seems good right? It certainly has synergy.

Later on, enter the same group, but replace 1 of them with 1 bard that will always open with Mind Fog and then using Confusion or Song of Discord to make your guys kill themselves. And because Phantsamal spells target Will, it synergies with the old group of mages. Some other mage will also throw a fucking Blade Barrier to cut your melee movement off too when they are in the enemy compo.

I certainly have been killed twice or thrice in that dungeon when Arue (which has relative low WIll Save) decided it is a good idea to sick 5 arrows to my commander head while having Sense Vitals. Or Wolfjit and Greybor suddenly gank rape Cam/Seelah in the frontline.

I certainly hope the extra AI behavior will make this better.

Oh and in general bosses (and strong optional encounters ) are usually pre-buffed decently so they can focus on killing you. They usually pre-cast attributes enhancing spells (Bull STR, Bear END, etc) and some defensive spells Blur, Mage Armor with permanent duration so you need to Dispel if you want to remove their buff. Some spells like Mirror Image, Divine Favor they will still cast normally tho.

How much of this changes depending on the difficulty you're on? I remember in stage 1 someone said encounters change depending on difficulty. Is this true? I expect none of this will make it past the first month when those steam reviews start pouring in about wisdom score damage, so thanks for letting us live a little of it vicariously through you.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Spoiler

vs

Does anyone know smth about the first guy? I know he is a cleric, but is there any advantage in using him while we have the oracle guy? Wonder if one of those superior in terms of healing ability and other features.

Sosiel (Cleric) is a good healer (he's a Cleric after all) and is easy to build as a reach weapon backup fighter. Daeran (Oracle) is a better healer, not as flexible with his casting due to being a spontaneous caster. I don’t feel like I'm using Daeran optimally but he is still really effective. I don’t use Sosiel much because I don't need anyone else in melee and because he is the most boring companion in the alpha.

Daeran is better healer after lv 12. He gets HEAL for free. And he got like 4 slot initially.

Sosiel should be in mid range and heal using Channel instead of Spell. As a cleric he got ton of natural steroid especially vs evil and will smash their face good. He is a glass cannon tho. Maybe need Heavy Armor Proficiencies.

And most boring companion falls to Reggil. You would've thought Hellknights Gnome would be interesting jutaxposition but he is as dry as stale beard. Makes a good straight man when paired with Daeren/Woljif tho.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I don't think normal enemies are using Dispel all that much. There are like 1 or 2 bosses that use it at the beginning I think?

What is kinda decent is that the enemies are currently throwing shit at you that have a decent synergy.

In Chapter 3 a common enemy group is 2 or 3 spellcasters that use Ennervation and WIS ability score damage spell (I am not sure what), and a bunch of Phantasmal Spells on you (Killer, Fireball, and Web mostly) while using Mirror Image in between to prevent getting sniped. Usually, this group will always start far enough behind that you will be engaged to their melee meatshield while they are casting shit. Seems good right? It certainly has synergy.

Later on, enter the same group, but replace 1 of them with 1 bard that will always open with Mind Fog and then using Confusion or Song of Discord to make your guys kill themselves. And because Phantsamal spells target Will, it synergies with the old group of mages. Some other mage will also throw a fucking Blade Barrier to cut your melee movement off too when they are in the enemy compo.

I certainly have been killed twice or thrice in that dungeon when Arue (which has relative low WIll Save) decided it is a good idea to sick 5 arrows to my commander head while having Sense Vitals. Or Wolfjit and Greybor suddenly gank rape Cam/Seelah in the frontline.

I certainly hope the extra AI behavior will make this better.

Oh and in general bosses (and strong optional encounters ) are usually pre-buffed decently so they can focus on killing you. They usually pre-cast attributes enhancing spells (Bull STR, Bear END, etc) and some defensive spells Blur, Mage Armor with permanent duration so you need to Dispel if you want to remove their buff. Some spells like Mirror Image, Divine Favor they will still cast normally tho.

How much of this changes depending on the difficulty you're on? I remember in stage 1 someone said encounters change depending on difficulty. Is this true? I expect none of this will make it past the first month when those steam reviews start pouring in about wisdom score damage, so thanks for letting us live a little of it vicariously through you.

Most of encounter nerf in PfK happens on chapter 1 due to bad learning curve. What I was writing happens end of Ch 2 to Ch 3. I am pretty sure they won't be nerfing stuffs directly.

To answer your question I only play on Core so I can't say. The most significant changes between difficulties besides stats tweak is enemy number (maybe AI behaviour later when its in the game). When I tweak enemy number on prologue it just spawn fewer centipede to squash.

Having the enemy group with smaller frontline or fewer mages will certainly makes those encounters easier on the virtue being able to get the backline sooner to less spell being thrown at you which means less chance to fail skmething.