Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Metamorph Alch into Shambling Mound looks like it could be... interesting. Mighty Fists is stacking with Magic Fang, Greater for some reason.

You get a free Grapple check with the Slam attack (with inherent +4 on the check) then once you've got something Grappled it can't attack, only attempt to escape (vs your CMD, with penalty to DEX and Entangled).

Unfortunately it can cast (?!?) but Entangled does trigger Concentration check, and you can't attack (you do automatic 4d6 per turn) while Grappling. Would be curious what else you could do. Just fighting with Feral Mutagen is pretty good until you pick up Mound shape, or you could fight as Wolf/Leopard and try to get CMB up for Trips.

Could be interesting. You get an improved version of Protect Vitals for free so you can just take Infusion, Feral (and Wings) and the Potion enhancers as you level (don't need Bombs), saving Feats for other things.

In addition to Delay Poison/Stat Boosts/Heroism can Brew Rage potion, then Death Ward, Resto, Freedom, Spell Resist, and Heal from Mythic Brewing if you want. Good to have on tap without burning slots. Brewing just checks Alch Kit and Spellbook so could Brew Heal pots well before lvl 16.

 

[ArchAngel]

Metamorph Alch into Shambling Mound looks like it could be... interesting. Mighty Fists is stacking with Magic Fang, Greater for some reason.

You get a free Grapple check with the Slam attack (with inherent +4 on the check) then once you've got something Grappled it can't attack, only attempt to escape (vs your CMD, with penalty to DEX and Entangled).

Unfortunately it can cast (?!?) but Entangled does trigger Concentration check, and you can't attack (you do automatic 4d6 per turn) while Grappling. Would be curious what else you could do. Just fighting with Feral Mutagen is pretty good until you pick up Mound shape, or you could fight as Wolf/Leopard and try to get CMB up for Trips.

Could be interesting. You get an improved version of Protect Vitals for free so you can just take Infusion, Feral (and Wings) and the Potion enhancers as you level (don't need Bombs), saving Feats for other things.

In addition to Delay Poison/Stat Boosts/Heroism can Brew Rage potion, then Death Ward, Resto, Freedom, Spell Resist, and Heal from Mythic Brewing if you want. Good to have on tap without burning slots. Brewing just checks Alch Kit and Spellbook so could Brew Heal pots well before lvl 16.

It is bad damage just 4d6, better to kill them.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Shambling mound form had two major problems when I tried it with a druid; it was fat so took up too much space and it moved like a slug.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

moved like a slug

Name oughta have tipped you off

 

[ArchAngel]

My current team has zero full BAB characters, I hope DLC3 does not punish me for it at some point :D

 

[Desiderius]

Shambling mound form had two major problems when I tried it with a druid; it was fat so took up too much space and it moved like a slug.

Alch has Expeditious Retreat. The whole point is the Alch for Infused Spells and Pots/Ccoking (and Trickery) then it can also Grapple with benefit of Mutagen (by the time you get Mound you’ve got Greater) and Polymorph Mythic etc. Metamorph even gets Stealth as Class Skill to set up Alpha and 50% Precision/Crit Resist by lvl six to protect you from getting one shot after.

CMBs are a different ballgame than “just kill stuff.” You can land the Slam with True Strike then get the benefit off all the CMB bonuses (and bypass Armor etc) for the Grapple. Extended True Strike sticks around for the CMB.

Against a dangerous attacker its akin to a save or die. Except there is no save.

 

[Haplo]

Shambling mound form had two major problems when I tried it with a druid; it was fat so took up too much space and it moved like a slug.

Alch has Expeditious Retreat. The whole point is the Alch for Infused Spells and Pots (and Trickery) then it can also Grapple with benefit of Mutagen (by the time you get Mound you’ve got Greater) and Polymorph Mythic etc.

CMBs are a different ballgame than “just kill stuff.” You can land the Slam with True Strike then get the benefit off all the CMB bonuses (and bypass Armor etc) for the Grapple. Against a dangerous attacker its akin to a save or die.

Well I guess you could do that to occupy a boss... or you could be an Inquisitor with some Spell Penetration, spamming Swift Littany of Eloquence and still actually attacking/doing whatever.

 

[Desiderius]

Metamorph Alch into Shambling Mound looks like it could be... interesting. Mighty Fists is stacking with Magic Fang, Greater for some reason.

You get a free Grapple check with the Slam attack (with inherent +4 on the check) then once you've got something Grappled it can't attack, only attempt to escape (vs your CMD, with penalty to DEX and Entangled).

Unfortunately it can cast (?!?) but Entangled does trigger Concentration check, and you can't attack (you do automatic 4d6 per turn) while Grappling. Would be curious what else you could do. Just fighting with Feral Mutagen is pretty good until you pick up Mound shape, or you could fight as Wolf/Leopard and try to get CMB up for Trips.

Could be interesting. You get an improved version of Protect Vitals for free so you can just take Infusion, Feral (and Wings) and the Potion enhancers as you level (don't need Bombs), saving Feats for other things.

In addition to Delay Poison/Stat Boosts/Heroism can Brew Rage potion, then Death Ward, Resto, Freedom, Spell Resist, and Heal from Mythic Brewing if you want. Good to have on tap without burning slots. Brewing just checks Alch Kit and Spellbook so could Brew Heal pots well before lvl 16.

It is bad damage just 4d6, better to kill them.

Do you guys all play solo or something? The point is the can’t attack part.

 

[Desiderius]

Shambling mound form had two major problems when I tried it with a druid; it was fat so took up too much space and it moved like a slug.

Alch has Expeditious Retreat. The whole point is the Alch for Infused Spells and Pots (and Trickery) then it can also Grapple with benefit of Mutagen (by the time you get Mound you’ve got Greater) and Polymorph Mythic etc.

CMBs are a different ballgame than “just kill stuff.” You can land the Slam with True Strike then get the benefit off all the CMB bonuses (and bypass Armor etc) for the Grapple. Against a dangerous attacker its akin to a save or die.

Well I guess you could do that to occupy a boss... or you could be an Inquisitor with some Spell Penetration, spamming Swift Littany of Eloquence and still actually attacking/doing whatever.

Mind-affecting for starters. Broken by damage for another. And requiring more Penetration than you're likely to have on an Inquisitor for bosses. CMBs: no SR, no Save, no Armor

But of course you can do both if you want. You have six guys.

Guess you could do D:OS-style stunlock tag in TB by firing it off the Litany last before the Fascinated character's turn comes up but that seems kind of trivializing even if it works. Like D:OS.

I do currently have 9 Litanies sitting in inventory from drops so maybe that's an intended play pattern with UMD?

 

[LannTheStupid]

 

[LannTheStupid]

It seems that Enhanced Edition adds what needs to be added.

 

[ArchAngel]

Metamorph Alch into Shambling Mound looks like it could be... interesting. Mighty Fists is stacking with Magic Fang, Greater for some reason.

You get a free Grapple check with the Slam attack (with inherent +4 on the check) then once you've got something Grappled it can't attack, only attempt to escape (vs your CMD, with penalty to DEX and Entangled).

Unfortunately it can cast (?!?) but Entangled does trigger Concentration check, and you can't attack (you do automatic 4d6 per turn) while Grappling. Would be curious what else you could do. Just fighting with Feral Mutagen is pretty good until you pick up Mound shape, or you could fight as Wolf/Leopard and try to get CMB up for Trips.

Could be interesting. You get an improved version of Protect Vitals for free so you can just take Infusion, Feral (and Wings) and the Potion enhancers as you level (don't need Bombs), saving Feats for other things.

In addition to Delay Poison/Stat Boosts/Heroism can Brew Rage potion, then Death Ward, Resto, Freedom, Spell Resist, and Heal from Mythic Brewing if you want. Good to have on tap without burning slots. Brewing just checks Alch Kit and Spellbook so could Brew Heal pots well before lvl 16.

It is bad damage just 4d6, better to kill them.

Do you guys all play solo or something? The point is the can’t attack part.

He cannot attack if he is dead as well. Also these attacks never work vs real dangerous enemies like bosses. Pure damage is only thing that matters.

 

[Haplo]

Shambling mound form had two major problems when I tried it with a druid; it was fat so took up too much space and it moved like a slug.

Alch has Expeditious Retreat. The whole point is the Alch for Infused Spells and Pots (and Trickery) then it can also Grapple with benefit of Mutagen (by the time you get Mound you’ve got Greater) and Polymorph Mythic etc.

CMBs are a different ballgame than “just kill stuff.” You can land the Slam with True Strike then get the benefit off all the CMB bonuses (and bypass Armor etc) for the Grapple. Against a dangerous attacker its akin to a save or die.

Well I guess you could do that to occupy a boss... or you could be an Inquisitor with some Spell Penetration, spamming Swift Littany of Eloquence and still actually attacking/doing whatever.

Mind-affecting for starters. Broken by damage for another. But of course you can do both if you want. You have six guys.

Good points. The second is less of an issue if you play Turn Based and use the Delay Turn to act just before the boss.

 

[Haplo]

It seems that Enhanced Edition adds what needs to be added.

Frankly I'm more interested in what it takes away.... (fixes)

 

[Desiderius]

cannot attack if he is dead as well. Also these attacks never work vs real dangerous enemies like bosses. Pure damage is only thing that matters.

Do I need to post the Disarming Riftcarver pic again? The one where I stupidly turned off half my abilities by equipping a Shield and still got there by 20?

CMBs bypass Armor, SR, and are no Save but the most important thing is they allow you to leverage spikes like True Strike to take out a dangerous enemy in one attack. You might be able to do that with damage on a dedicated Rowdy of some sort but the Alch comes with True Strike, already wants Extend Meta for its buffs (which also gets the TS on the CMB), gets all the buffs to CMB from Greater Mut, Polymorph Mythic etc, and doesn't have the Feats or BAB for VS.

Debuffing AB (which the game gives you a lot of ways to do) also debuffs CMD (a big point in favor of CMs), and a Grappled character even loses some of its AC due to DEX malus and Entangle, making it easier for rest of team to hit. Sucks that they can cast (with Concentration check) since that's the main use of Grapple in the KotCs but there may be a way to affect that check as well like Disruptive Fighter.

Good points. The second is less of an issue if you play Turn Based and use the Delay Turn to act just before the boss.

If you've got enough Spell Pen on an Inquisitor to do that you're a better player than I am. That's the main issue. And you don't have enough slots in DLC to use it on non-bosses since it's low rest.

 

[Desiderius]

It seems that Enhanced Edition adds what needs to be added.

Frankly I'm more interested in what it takes away.... (fixes)

As usual they're blowing their resources on cosmetics instead of getting basic functionality fixed. It's like they're intentionally trolling anyone who actually plays all the classes they create (and the non-caster generals) instead of just the memes. Clear the devs themselves don't, which is kind of strange if you think about it.

 

[Parabalus]

After the EE drops, are there still more DLCs coming?

 

[LannTheStupid]

getting basic functionality fixed.

plays all the classes they create (and the non-caster generals)

I see a contradiction here. Do you?

 

[Aarwolf]

After the EE drops, are there still more DLCs coming?

Yes, three more in second season pass.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Hecking armor color change?!? I'm finally ready to move past chapter 3.

 

[Parabalus]

After the EE drops, are there still more DLCs coming?

Yes, three more in second season pass.

Looks like it's time to replay this in 2025.

 

[Desiderius]

Classes should work. That’s the deal you made with your customers.

Sham bug reporting systems are an insult. And that includes the OC forums where the leading players made a list of non-functional abilities in both Alpha (just before Beta) and Beta (just before release) that were completely ignored. Most things on that list *still* don’t work.

 

[ArchAngel]

Classes should work. That’s the deal you made with your customers.

Sham bug reporting systems are an insult. And that includes the OC forums where the leading players made a list of non-functional abilities in both Alpha (just before Beta) and Beta (just before release) that were completely ignored. Most things on that list *still* don’t work.

They are probably not a priority and they got too many priorities.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I would argue that a bug that affects less than 100 players should never be fixed, unless it is critical (like CtD or corrupting saves) or touches some iconic feature like mounted combat in WotR. A bug that affects less than 10 players should not even be validated, even if it is a critical one. It's about statistics and priorities.

Desiderius You can contact one of the modders and commission your personal bug fixes as a mod. Or wait for some "community bug fix".

 

[Desiderius]

This isn’t niche stuff. They gave the Ranger General the Core Ability “Hunt” - unlimited use AoE AC debuff - to make it more competitive with Caster General.

It originally debuffed *your AB* (or buffed enemy AC, can’t remember) then they said they fixed it and now it does nothing. How is that level of incompetence even possible?

Halfling Cav has a lot going for it but gives up main class feature of Cav Order for its own custom abilities. Danger Ward at level 2 is supposed to let you reroll failed saves AoE which is a game-changing ability and main motivation to play class.

Instead it re-rolls *all* saves and gives you disadvantage! It’s like they’re intentionally fucking things up.