Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Sarathiour]

I would argue that a bug that affects less than 100 players should never be fixed

Nice to know that chapter 5 is never going to be fixed.

 

[Desiderius]

These aren’t “bugs” lol. Most of these classes have never worked at all. Incense Synthesizer didn’t even have tooltips on its non-existent abilities at release. They found the resources to add the tooltips, but not the abilities.

Don’t give us Vaporware then act like we’re the ones out of line for noticing.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Halfling Cav has a lot going for it but gives up main class feature of Cav Order for its own custom abilities. Danger Ward at level 2 is supposed to let you reroll failed saves AoE which is a game-changing ability and main motivation to play class.

Instead it re-rolls *all* saves and gives you disadvantage! It’s like they’re intentionally fucking things up.

Lol, some of the bugs in Wrath are really funny/amusing. Although I'm speaking from a position of someone who has p. much given up on the game

 

[Desiderius]

They heavily marketed race-specific archetypes then half of them weren’t ready at release (Danger Ward did nothing), then the Coders (who don’t play) belatedly got their hands on it and hilarity ensued.

I haven’t given up on it - the ideas behind those archetypes are all brilliant, I’m just furious at the suits who are rushing out new games and refusing to either pay good coders or take advantage of the talented fans to translate those ideas into reality.

 

[PrK]

I would argue that a bug that affects less than 100 players should never be fixed, unless it is critical (like CtD or corrupting saves) or touches some iconic feature like mounted combat in WotR. A bug that affects less than 10 players should not even be validated, even if it is a critical one. It's about statistics and priorities.

A bug that makes a class archetype not work as intended and affects 1 out of 100 players is infinitely more important to be fixed than one affecting say a reward from a side quest that all players will encounter simply because while the latter is less than a percent of the game, the first one makes the whole experience of playing it worse.
If Owlcat has different priorities it just shows they are incompetent cucks.

 

[Average Manatee]

After the EE drops, are there still more DLCs coming?

Yes, three more in second season pass.

Looks like it's time to replay this in 2025.

Wait for the EE to get an EE version.

 

[Desiderius]

A bug that makes a class archetype not work as intended and affects 1 out of 100 players is infinitely more important to be fixed

The point is that it would fairly rapidly become more than 1 out of 100 if it were working properly since it seems almost the point of the ruleset to own powergamers and minmaxxers (especially those stuck in 3.5) with oddball classes/archetypes (or just traditional RP classes like Bard/Skald/Alch) and people enjoy discovering those and learning how to properly take advantage of their abilities, both to own the shitty build guides/memeclowns and just the general joy of discovery/mastery.

It's also the heart of replayability. If you want people to buy your DLCs (and especially the buildfag ones like this one!) it's kind of important to make sure the new classes they want to try actually work.

 

[Acrux]

Oh boy I can change the color of my armor WOW WOW WOW

And new inventory search that a mod already does (and likely does better - just like the turn based mod for Kingmaker). Can't wait for EE

 

[Desiderius]

It's stuff like this:

Interesting itemization

that keeps me wanting to play. Way too much vendor trash, but the occasional gems are great.

Also all the unique abilities of different archetypes:

Gonna be hard to give up Dirge Bard

When they work every playthrough is a totally unique experience.

Then again when the bugs benefit the player:

No, this Elemental Engine doesn't have 12 Burn

it can make everything else kind of trivial.

Winter Witch on the other hand is a nice mix of anooying spells missing (Animal Growth?), unique utility (loving Agony Hex in this DLC with 60 ft range), and good Meta Rays to take advantage of Ray Crit Tailwind:

The Elk belongs to the Kinnie from TTT Nature's Ally

Don't even have Bolster yet.

Nomad likewise doesn't get the Spirited Charge brokenness but is very solid all-around contributor. Sets up well for Mobility-based Mounted Feats since it gets Point-Blank Master for free and gets ranged Feats from Combat Style:

TTT has a Feat at 12 BAB that lets you prevent 2 attacks per round

If you make a mounted Aasimar you can get a feat that gives you a Celestial Mount. The DR/Evil is nice in this DLC and with a LOT of work you can even make the Smite relevant:

Got one Mirror on a drop and bought the other one. Crusader is nuts with Mirror.

Crusader merged with Angel now moving to Rays at lvl 13, Winter Witch has meta-Snowballs, Preservationist Alch has Bombs, and Elemental Engine has Blasts, all with 17-20 crit range. Rounded out by Nomad and Dirge Bard.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Good points. The second is less of an issue if you play Turn Based and use the Delay Turn to act just before the boss.

If you've got enough Spell Pen on an Inquisitor to do that you're a better player than I am. That's the main issue. And you don't have enough slots in DLC to use it on non-bosses since it's low rest.

Allied Spellcaster teamwork feat should really help with that, if I play a base inquisitor I pretty much always grab it, there are only so many decent teamwork feats to get. After that, the inquisitor just needs to stand around 3-4 party members/pets to get really decent boost to spell penetration.

 

[Desiderius]

And new inventory search that a mod already does (and likely does better - just like the turn based mod for Kingmaker). Can't wait for EE

They pretty much just implemented that mod for Wrath. Should encourage them to do more of that. Seems like they've done some of it with TTT as well.

Allied Spellcaster teamwork feat should really help with that, if I play a base inquisitor I pretty much always grab it, there are only so many decent teamwork feats to get. After that, the inquisitor just needs to stand around 3-4 party members/pets to get really decent boost to spell penetration.

Well if you don't give away your Judgements there's also the Spell Pen Judgement (scales lvl/3), but not sure if it's worth the opportunity cost. Inq can get a little Swift-clogged already.

 

[Desiderius]

Preservationist finally getting there:



Though I guess you could just pick up Extend Meta on a different Alch archetype or buy enough Diamond Dust to spam Stoneskin, Communal. 5th level of Alch spellbook is kind of a joke. The last Bottled Ally *really* gets there but you don't get that until level 17 and Alch 6th level spells are actually pretty good. 9th lvl Angel spell that gives everyone all the buffs for an hour (you get it at lvl 13/M4 on merged Angel) makes some of the Alch Infusions obsolete (as do the various Ward spells Angel gets, so if you're playing an Angel might be able to leave Alch on the bench.

 

[Tsubutai]

Robe of Seven Sins is an absurdly busted item in the main campaign - combined with other CL-boosting items, it lets any character with greater enduring spells and a CL of 20 extend their Illusion, Transmutation, and Evocation rounds/level buffs to 24 hours. Combine that with the extra XP from the Isles getting you to level 20 very early in Act 5 and you can just run around with 24-hr greater invisibility, displacement, divine power, and haste even without spellbook merging.

 

[Desiderius]

Robe of Seven Sins is an absurdly busted item in the main campaign - combined with other CL-boosting items, it lets any character with greater enduring spells and a CL of 20 extend their Illusion, Transmutation, and Evocation rounds/level buffs to 24 hours. Combine that with the extra XP from the Isles getting you to level 20 very early in Act 5 and you can just run around with 24-hr greater invisibility, displacement, divine power, and haste even without spellbook merging.

Two Mythic abilities is a massive opportunity cost for something you don’t even need by the time you get it. Really don’t get the obsession with Enduring. Wrath is a high rest environment. Of course it's convenient (especially with recharging casts with Heal from Hand in Nexus so never have to rest at all if you don't want to) but so is Bubble Buff or just not playing in the first place. If I'm playing the game I want to plan my spells to memorize/select and rest to recharge them along with Brewing/Scribing.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Robe of Seven Sins is an absurdly busted item in the main campaign - combined with other CL-boosting items, it lets any character with greater enduring spells and a CL of 20 extend their Illusion, Transmutation, and Evocation rounds/level buffs to 24 hours. Combine that with the extra XP from the Isles getting you to level 20 very early in Act 5 and you can just run around with 24-hr greater invisibility, displacement, divine power, and haste even without spellbook merging.

But if you do spellbook merge and have the robe, you can probably start getting all that before the end of chapter 4.

 

[Lambach]

It seems that Enhanced Edition adds what needs to be added.

Ye, but it feels like they're tapping themselves on the shoulder for the equivalent of something as basic as not shitting themselves in public. This is some really basic QoL stuff that should've been there from the start.

 

[ArchAngel]

It seems that Enhanced Edition adds what needs to be added.

Ye, but it feels like they're tapping themselves on the shoulder for the equivalent of something as basic as not shitting themselves in public. This is some really basic QoL stuff that should've been there from the start.

Hopefully that is only a small part of improvements they added. For one we need hotkeys for opening spell, ability, items menus without using mods.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Oh, soon Enchanced edition comes up, finaly I will try this game and mods will not be broken...

After the EE drops, are there still more DLCs coming?

Yes, three more in second season pass.

Oh for fuck sake...

 

[Parabalus]

Robe of Seven Sins is an absurdly busted item in the main campaign - combined with other CL-boosting items, it lets any character with greater enduring spells and a CL of 20 extend their Illusion, Transmutation, and Evocation rounds/level buffs to 24 hours. Combine that with the extra XP from the Isles getting you to level 20 very early in Act 5 and you can just run around with 24-hr greater invisibility, displacement, divine power, and haste even without spellbook merging.

Two Mythic abilities is a massive opportunity cost for something you don’t even need by the time you get it. Really don’t get the obsession with Enduring. Wrath is a high rest environment. Of course it's convenient (especially with recharging casts with Heal from Hand in Nexus so never have to rest at all if you don't want to) but so is Bubble Buff or just not playing in the first place. If I'm playing the game I want to plan my spells to memorize/select and rest to recharge them along with Brewing/Scribing.

But resting is admitting defeat. Ideally you rest just on the world map, never in dungeons.

 

[Desiderius]

Robe of Seven Sins is an absurdly busted item in the main campaign - combined with other CL-boosting items, it lets any character with greater enduring spells and a CL of 20 extend their Illusion, Transmutation, and Evocation rounds/level buffs to 24 hours. Combine that with the extra XP from the Isles getting you to level 20 very early in Act 5 and you can just run around with 24-hr greater invisibility, displacement, divine power, and haste even without spellbook merging.

Two Mythic abilities is a massive opportunity cost for something you don’t even need by the time you get it. Really don’t get the obsession with Enduring. Wrath is a high rest environment. Of course it's convenient (especially with recharging casts with Heal from Hand in Nexus so never have to rest at all if you don't want to) but so is Bubble Buff or just not playing in the first place. If I'm playing the game I want to plan my spells to memorize/select and rest to recharge them along with Brewing/Scribing.

But resting is admitting defeat. Ideally you rest just on the world map, never in dungeons.

Game’s hard enough without adding unnecessary stipulations. Rest was bad in P:K because time wasn’t on your side. In Wrath it is.

Use it.

Don’t worry about “cheese” or other nonsense (feel for my younger brothers here scarred for life from growing up during the faceroll phone game craze - if Wrath and Old World are any indication we’re headed back to coin-op difficulty levels so cheese will be the last thing on your minds) since corruption keeps rest spam in check.

VTomb locked you in. Can you name the Dungeons in Wrath that do likewise? No shame in stretching out your dungeoneering with multiple forays as Gygax intended.

 

[Desiderius]

On-lvl (or close to on-lvl) rnd/lvl spells are for tough fights. If you need them always on you’re either nerfing yourself by taking Enduring over a Mythic that’s a good fit for your class and/or playing at a difficulty lvl you’re not ready for yet.

 

[Tsubutai]

Robe of Seven Sins is an absurdly busted item in the main campaign - combined with other CL-boosting items, it lets any character with greater enduring spells and a CL of 20 extend their Illusion, Transmutation, and Evocation rounds/level buffs to 24 hours. Combine that with the extra XP from the Isles getting you to level 20 very early in Act 5 and you can just run around with 24-hr greater invisibility, displacement, divine power, and haste even without spellbook merging.

Two Mythic abilities is a massive opportunity cost for something you don’t even need by the time you get it. Really don’t get the obsession with Enduring. Wrath is a high rest environment. Of course it's convenient (especially with recharging casts with Heal from Hand in Nexus so never have to rest at all if you don't want to) but so is Bubble Buff or just not playing in the first place. If I'm playing the game I want to plan my spells to memorize/select and rest to recharge them along with Brewing/Scribing.

The Hand refreshing all spells and abilities has been fixed for some time, now he just heals. Yes, you *can* rest a lot in Wrath's dungeons, but I find it very immersion-breaking to do so - it just seems silly to have a cookout and then tuck in for a nap mid-way through a demon lord's private torture dungeon or whatever. Since I prefer to minimize rests, taking enduring frees up a lot of spell slots that would otherwise have to be spent on duplicate casts of min/level things like Shield, Reduce/Enlarge Person, and attribute buffs in the early game, and duplicate casts of rounds/level stuff like Haste in the late game.

As for not adding unnecessary stipulations... I'm currently doing an unfair run with lots of self-imposed restrictions (no mercs, no pets, no merging, all companions single-classed in their starting classes), so adding "no snoozing in the dungeon" to the list is just more fuel for the fire.

 

[Average Manatee]

Resting in 95% of dungeons is fucking stupid. It'd be like someone setting up camp in one of the rooms in your house for 8 hours and you just leaving them alone (after they killed 2 of your family members btw). Only place it makes sense in is some kind of tomb or similar situation populated by mindless animated undead/automatons/etc that literally do nothing except guard the room they are in. Any party that tries to rest should otherwise be greeted by an alpha strike of every enemy in the dungeon opening up a fight with their strongest abilities in the first round to utterly wipe the party out. Or worse (just barricade the doors and fill the room with burning oil)

 

[Desiderius]

What kind of nonsense have you phaggots whipped yourselves into this time? If they knew you were there you wouldn’t be able to bumrush every fight. Finding safe places to rest has been a key dungeoneering skill as long as D&D has been around. That’s obviously intended since they put corruption reducing nodes in secluded places that are well-suited for avoiding attention or defense if it comes to that. It’s why you post sentries with high Perception when you rest and a character with high Stealth to disguise the party.

What game are you even playing? Average Manatee was right that my anal rest avoidance in P:K was a drop in the bucket compared to the months of time it takes to rank up advisors/claim regions and whatnot. You guys didn’t just get stuck in that rut you’ve made a perverse virtue out of it.

 

[Stoned Ape]

I tend to take Enduring + Greater Enduring instead of Abundant(+improved and greater) on Daeran + a PC sorcerer or Oracle and thus saving a mythic ability for second bloodline/mystery. They tend to run low on resources around the time that my prepared casters need to rest after burning through their abundant spells anyway. Usually the first rest is 9 hours so their enduring spells are all still up and they have a complete spellbook to cast from when they wake up while the non-enduring casters have to refresh their buffs.

Also, having Enduring Haste on my Legend/Lich just made the bigger dungeons in act 5 far less tedious to trudge through.