Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Jaedar]

Man Vescavor's Confusion aura bugs the fuck out of mounted characters. Can't even skip their turn if they roll some results

That sounds new, although there have always been occasions where the turn based mode freezes and you need to switch to rtwp for a second or two to unstuck it.

That method only works here if you also unpause, so it doesn't seem like the "usual" TB bug. Also it happens way to frequently and only with confused, mounted characters.

Hmm, for me it always required a bit of unpausing (that's what I meant by a second or two). But I wouldn't be surprised if owlcat messed something up even more, iirc there was some vescavor/tb stuck fix in EE.

 

[Grunker]

Thanks for the dragon shape tip Desiderius - while it didn't help me in Gargoyle fight, I'm not sure I could have beat the Queen without it.

 

[Grunker]

Man Vescavor's Confusion aura bugs the fuck out of mounted characters. Can't even skip their turn if they roll some results

That sounds new, although there have always been occasions where the turn based mode freezes and you need to switch to rtwp for a second or two to unstuck it.

That method only works here if you also unpause, so it doesn't seem like the "usual" TB bug. Also it happens way to frequently and only with confused, mounted characters.

Hmm, for me it always required a bit of unpausing (that's what I meant by a second or two). But I wouldn't be surprised if owlcat messed something up even more, iirc there was some vescavor/tb stuck fix in EE.

Normal bug doesn't require unpausing for me (and happens extremely rarely)

 

[Desiderius]

As for dispelling strike

I can never imagine them actually working with these kind of DCs.

Wat

For painful strike that sickens the target must pass a DC fortitude of 20ish or smth? I think it also scales with INT but in my case I don't have any.
Dispelling strike scales off levels - maybe its DC is viable on hard? But I read somewhere that it can also dispel debuffs, no idea if it's true, I'll try to test.

Well, I have tested dispelling buffs from Gallu Stormcallers in Threshold and it was remarkable how low the DCs were. I can't recall which difficulty it was on when I tested it, but they were as low as 12

Before that they’re mostly (all?) in the 30s, or were. It’s also a CL check, not a DC check, with CL on your side = character level for Dispelling Strike.

Advantage effects should apply to that check, but don’t.

Crippling Strike is probably a little too slow - if you’re hitting enough to make it worth it stuff should already be dead. The value of Advanced Slayer Talents is in things like Opportunist, Slippery Mind, Improved Uncanny, and the Skill stuff that changes the way the game plays out. TTT adds take ten effects for blocks of skills (maybe in vanilla?) and some other stuff.

 

[Desiderius]

re: rp reasons

there’s only the computer and me, and neither of us care

And yet here you are.

the “rp reasons” would actually be reflected mechanically

Lol, they are for the most part. It’s just that the poor powergamers haven’t figured it out yet. They’re slowly coming around.

 

[ga♥]

Advanced Quarry + Studied + Sneaks > Weapon Training + Gloves, especially if you already have another Fighter. Mut's basically +2 AB but hurts Will Saves (already a weakness) and Perception checks.

Improved quarry gives +4 insight on attack rolls.
Mutagen gives +2 to AB (or +2 dmg), but then you have weapon training +2, and greater weapon focus another +1.
Also, you get access to weapon specialization that gives +2 dmg, and the gloves as you said that increase weapon training.

Quarry has no mythic upgrade, while weapon focus and weapon specialization do.
If you get both you get another +2 AB and potentially +5 dmg at Mythic 10.

You leave on the table 3d6 sneak attacks and +2 AB/DMG from studied target and the advanced rogue talents that are not that great for ranged anyway.

 

[Yosharian]

Advanced Quarry + Studied + Sneaks > Weapon Training + Gloves, especially if you already have another Fighter. Mut's basically +2 AB but hurts Will Saves (already a weakness) and Perception checks.

Improved quarry gives +4 insight on attack rolls.
Mutagen gives +2 to AB (or +2 dmg), but then you have weapon training +2, and greater weapon focus another +1.
Also, you get access to weapon specialization that gives +2 dmg, and the gloves as you said that increase weapon training.

Quarry has no mythic upgrade, while weapon focus and weapon specialization do.
If you get both you get another +2 AB and potentially +5 dmg at Mythic 10.

You leave on the table 3d6 sneak attacks and +2 AB/DMG from studied target and the advanced rogue talents that are not that great for ranged anyway.

Improved Quarry is level 19 to be fair

 

[user]

OK, instead of respeccing Camellia and Ember I decided to just push Cackle a bit ahead in the order, and Hexes are much more fun and useful with that early (I had somehow missed that it was a Move action). So guess I'm keeping them as is for now.

I guess I'll be using Nenio to scribe Greater Invis scroll in camp as a patch.

If you spam cackle to extend the hex duration out of combat, Toybox has an option in its main tab for it to extend hexes for 10 minutes (only when OoC).

 

[ArchAngel]

Still nobody offered advice on good divine magic focused melee that can also support with divine spells and that is not main character (so only access to companion Mythic powers).
Alternative would be a very good divine blaster or summoner that will have a lot of spells.
My main as it looks now will be Lich Sylvan Sorcerer so it will cover pet, skeleton companion and offensive spells.

 

[Desiderius]

Advanced Quarry + Studied + Sneaks > Weapon Training + Gloves, especially if you already have another Fighter. Mut's basically +2 AB but hurts Will Saves (already a weakness) and Perception checks.

Improved quarry gives +4 insight on attack rolls.
Mutagen gives +2 to AB (or +2 dmg), but then you have weapon training +2, and greater weapon focus another +1.
Also, you get access to weapon specialization that gives +2 dmg, and the gloves as you said that increase weapon training.

Quarry has no mythic upgrade, while weapon focus and weapon specialization do.
If you get both you get another +2 AB and potentially +5 dmg at Mythic 10.

You leave on the table 3d6 sneak attacks and +2 AB/DMG from studied target and the advanced rogue talents that are not that great for ranged anyway.

Mythic upgrade lol. Somehow still missing the concept of opportunity cost. Still not getting this. “I can make this almost relevant with a Mythic” is… not a good thing. Mythics are valuable.

Had forgotten Improved Quarry is Insight so no stack with Inspiring Command and True Strike for instance. And yeah the Mut is up front while Improved Quarry is the endgame design I usually give people shit about.

Makes sense. I’m just a sucker for how much easier Free Action is to use in RTwP than Swift, but you’re getting a solid boost from those Fighter levels no doubt.

 

[Desiderius]

Still nobody offered advice on good divine magic focused warrior that can also support with divine spells and that is not main character (so only access to companion Mythic powers).
Alternative would be a very good divine blaster or summoner that will have a lot of spells.
My main as it looks now will be Lich Sylvan Sorcerer so it will cover pet, skeleton companion and offensive spells.

Purifier has a class-specific Cloak in AreeSu’s Lab.

 

[ArchAngel]

Still nobody offered advice on good divine magic focused warrior that can also support with divine spells and that is not main character (so only access to companion Mythic powers).
Alternative would be a very good divine blaster or summoner that will have a lot of spells.
My main as it looks now will be Lich Sylvan Sorcerer so it will cover pet, skeleton companion and offensive spells.

Purifier has a class-specific Cloak in AreeSu’s Lab.

I am not doing the campaign, this character cannot depend on specific unique items.

 

[gurugeorge]

https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/builds/Melee_Lich_Legend#Caster_Oracle

Same pile of shit like any Neoseeker build)

What's wrong with neoseeker builds? I never used them mind you, but the guide was the best place to look up info on the various mythics during early launch, and possibly still is. Also a decent way to quickly check with archetypes are worth a damn.

They're generally allergic to rp sensibilities, they're pure min-max builds for highest difficulty, to they tend to be Frankenstein's monsters from the rp point of view.

Here we go with more 'pure classes are better than multiclass builds for ARR PEE REASONS' bullshit

I'm not particularly waving the flag for either point of view. Though my personal preference leans towards a fairly consistent rp character on the whole, I've often experimented with munchkins just to see what's up, and it is after all a game that anyone can play however they like.

It just depends on the weighting with which you play these sorts of games. I don't think anybody's completely free of rp thoughts and concerns, after all there is a level at which you're living a story through your avatar, and it feels good when you have some sort of backstory in the back of your mind - it informs the choices you make in dialogues, for one thing. And it's smoother and easier if that backstory is consistent and makes sense in terms of the virtual world. But you can play games "mechanistically" too (in terms of "beating the game"), and I've often done that in the past as well. It's not like there's some huge, world-shattering dichotomy here, it's just weightings in terms of personal preferences, and those can change at different times even for the same person.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

zen archer increases its damage dice independent of the weapon, so you could equip shortbows and be as good as if you had a long bow.

Yeah actually that's what I'm doing, at first it seemed like ki arrows didn't even work, as the character sheet still shows 1d6, but the combat log accurately reflects the 1d8. That means my MC doesn't have to compete with Lann for longbows. Hopefully there are actually some good composite shortbows lol...

For added "fun" I have equipped the rest of the party with bows, and let Seelah tank in defensive fighting stance. It's certainly not optimal but it lets me comfortably play in RTWP and the battles tend to finish in reasonable amounts of time, so I enjoy that. In tougher fights I'll pause and use abilities and spells and whatnot, so it plays kinda like BG. For some reason I just really love seeing the enemies getting blown up by a mess of arrows lol... it should get even better with haste and more attacks per round.

I imagine with camilla being an elf, she should be able to be somewhat decent with bows. Woljif with his sneak attack dice also works ok for ranged, and sometimes I'll swap him back to his daggers if I feel like he can contribute more damage. Lann obviously excels at ranged as-is, and then Nenio mostly just misses a lot with a light crossbow, but obviously she's mainly there for the buffs/spells. Any other good ranged companions I should use? I could afford to drop Woljif honestly, he's kinda redundant with camilla taking trickery duty, although he's useful for throwing grease on the ground and such as well.

Does outflank work with snap shot to allow AOO on crits within snap shot range? I'm guessing probably not, but it would be nice lol. Same question with seize the moment. Also, in general, does it make sense to take both outflank and seize the moment? Outflank just seems better, especially if it actually works in concert with snap shot.

As far as the RP discussion, I guess I generally try to keep a fairly consistent character with dialog choices, and I like the portrait to kind of match the character to a degree (Although there aren't nearly enough portraits to choose from) but I wouldn't even give a second thought to the idea of multiclassing being wrong. Although in this game, with all your characters leveling up together it gets a bit overwhelming trying to look at all the different classes every level up, so I tend to just stick with the same one. The feat choices alone are overwhelming enough for me, lol.

 

[Haplo]

Outflank does proc AoOs on crits with Snap Shot.
I don't think taking both it and Seize the Moment makes sense. Others swear by it.

 

[Desiderius]

Seize the Moment is the one that works with Ranged, since it just says Threaten instead of Flanking (which Ranged can't do). Some say that Outflank is still giving AoOs on Ranged but it doesn't give the added flanking bonus so I skip it on Ranged toons. Seize has heavy Feat Tax so good for things like Fighter's Tactics or Tactician.

There are good Shortbows throughout the game (first good +3* is Shortbow) tho Eye for an Eye may still be bugged. There's a +4 early ch4 that gives Haste to both rider and mount (Keshik Bow - inspiration for Sohei I think). Can mount up on Bismuth at that point even without otherwise having a pet.

* - can get vanilla +3 Long if you short circuit ch1 sidequest

Outflank does proc AoOs on crits with Snap Shot.
I don't think taking both it and Seize the Moment makes sense. Others swear by it.

This is a bug (the ability says Flanking and Ranged can't Flank - doesn't get flanking bonus). Lann starting with Combat Reflexes is probably intended as prereq for Seize. Just wish they'd eliminate Rapid prereq for Improved Snap or bypass that prereq for ZA.

Daidre is right that Snap doesn't proc much even on AoOs generated by the Mount without Enlarge/Improved Snap and to get Improved he has to burn a useless Feat on Rapid, defeating some of the benefit of the class. It's the old zero range problem from P:K Blindfight - persistent problem in the code. Basically have to have overlapping circles which is hard to get with Mount.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Sounds like he doesn't have Arushalalalae yet.

 

[Humbaba]

More deity reactivity: If you worship Gyronna and have Ember in your party when you meet Hulrun at the marketplace, you can curse him with blindness, after which he turns hostile.

Pretty cool from the devs to put a disproportionate amount of effort into this, I don't know any other rpg where deity selection matters as much as here. Seems like most deities come up at least once somewhere in the game and have a mechanical effect in gameplay. Though I picked Nethys once and I don't think that ever mattered, so he might be and exception.

 

[Jaedar]

Though I picked Nethys once and I don't think that ever mattered, so he might be and exception.

I think Nethys worshippers gets a unique dialogue option with Areelu in Act 2, which potentially raises her disposition and makes a later condition easier to accomplish?

Pretty cool from the devs to put a disproportionate amount of effort into this, I don't know any other rpg where deity selection matters as much as here.

Yeah, it's cool. I really wish they'd make a 10-20 hour campaign that really focused on reactivity to choices like this. I might play through something like that once for each mythic, which I never would for the current 100+ hour campaign.

 

[Desiderius]

Wandering Marksman is another solid ranged option since Leopard is such a good early tank and Marksman buffs it with Animal Focus and scaling Dodge AC. The Marksman himself gets Aspect of Falcon* and Hurricane Bow so isn't awful but really misses ranged Teamwork Feats. Full Barkskins and both Ranger and Druid utility spells with faster progression than Ranger (Delay Poison at lvl 1 for DLC is nice). Unfortunately the Circumstance AB bonus also requires overlapping circles on pet to turn on. Decent MC if you want to leave Aru on the bench or for DLC where Leopard Tank is great.

* - Aspects are Polymorph effects so shld turn on the Mythic

 

[Humbaba]

Though I picked Nethys once and I don't think that ever mattered, so he might be and exception.

I think Nethys worshippers gets a unique dialogue option with Areelu in Act 2, which potentially raises her disposition and makes a later condition easier to accomplish?

That's true, you get a specific dialogue option at the end Drezen. But idk if it has an impact on her opinion towards you.

 

[Grunker]

More deity reactivity: If you worship Gyronna and have Ember in your party when you meet Hulrun at the marketplace, you can curse him with blindness, after which he turns hostile.

Pretty cool from the devs to put a disproportionate amount of effort into this, I don't know any other rpg where deity selection matters as much as here. Seems like most deities come up at least once somewhere in the game and have a mechanical effect in gameplay. Though I picked Nethys once and I don't think that ever mattered, so he might be and exception.

I hate atheism in fantasy because it makes no goddamned sense, but I'm playing one now because I didn't figure Demon made much sense if you went around paying homage to a God, and there's been a fairly impressive amount of reactivity. You can discuss it with Ember at length, and you're downright immune to Garrison Succubus' Dominate-attempt, which is p. cool

 

[Desiderius]

More deity reactivity: If you worship Gyronna and have Ember in your party when you meet Hulrun at the marketplace, you can curse him with blindness, after which he turns hostile.

Pretty cool from the devs to put a disproportionate amount of effort into this, I don't know any other rpg where deity selection matters as much as here. Seems like most deities come up at least once somewhere in the game and have a mechanical effect in gameplay. Though I picked Nethys once and I don't think that ever mattered, so he might be and exception.

I hate atheism in fantasy because it makes no goddamned sense, but I'm playing one now because I didn't figure Demon made much sense if you went around paying homage to a God, and there's been a fairly impressive amount of reactivity. You can discuss it with Ember at length, and you're downright immune to Garrison Succubus' Dominate-attempt, which is p. cool

Protection from Evil also prevents Dominate (you'll need this for certain fight in Drezen Citadel). Communal lasts long enough to get the job done.

Caylen gets big bonus for Tavern fight which is awesome, and Abadar for Darrazand. Fun to figure out which deity gets what.

 

[Jaedar]

I hate atheism in fantasy because it makes no goddamned sense, but I'm playing one now because I didn't figure Demon made much sense if you went around paying homage to a God, and there's been a fairly impressive amount of reactivity. You can discuss it with Ember at length, and you're downright immune to Garrison Succubus' Dominate-attempt, which is p. cool

I think atheism in this is more anti-theism than untheism, if you catch my meaning. The gods exist, but also the world is horrible, so fuck 'em!

But yeah, it is arguably a bit weird with how the abyss has no proper gods? Or at least none the game will let you pick. Then again, the idea that people only worship one god is already really weird in a polytheistic setting...

It never made much sense, is what I'm saying.

 

[Ghulgothas]

The God reactivity was one of this game's nice little surprises. Urgathoa & Lamashtu will call attention to choices & things needed for the Lich & Swarm path, respectively. And I think there was also a lot for Iomedae, but I can't remember anything specific since my last Angel playthtough was forever ago.