Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[CthuluIsSpy]

So here's what I'm thinking -
Since this is a game about going on crusade, I'm going to assume fanaticism is going to be appropriate. Which means some warhammer level of purging.
So, with that in mind :

Champion of the Faith archetype,
Deity : Asmodeus (for the mace, also edgy devil boi)
Spec into Hellknight Signifier, join Order of the Godclaw
Take Aeon Path, then Devil path

Commit war crimes along the way.



That should make a sufficiently edgy boi whilst still being somewhat logical thematically.
I wanted to go Zon Kuthon but Godclaw doesn't cover him and if I'm playing a crusading fanatical warrior priest I might as well go Godclaw.

 

[Mauman]

Deity : Asmodeus (for the mace, also edgy demon boi)

....
Any self-respecting follower of Asmodeus would lodge that mace up your rectum for calling him a demon.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Deity : Asmodeus (for the mace, also edgy demon boi)

....
Any self-respecting follower of Asmodeus would lodge that mace up your rectum for calling him a demon.

That's fair, I meant Devil.

 

[Gargaune]

Forgotten, switched to different tools, requiring more data to troubleshoot, changed legal situation, etc... . Your guess is as good as mine and I haven't seen anyone make an effort to find out.
As for why they don't come out and explain it, as if any answer (including saying that they'll remove it) won't just add more oil to the fire. You can blame the reliable overreaction of gamers for this.

That's not the way this works, you paid for the game under a set of terms and then those terms changed unilaterally, without you being offered an option to opt out or refund. The EULA model affords the developer the option, unfair as it is, but if they choose to take advantage of it, it's not an "overreaction" for potential customers to criticise it and not want to do business anymore.

Edit: I'm also not sure why you're suggesting that "addressing or removing it" would make the PR situation worse. Addressing it, maybe, since there's no way to put a nice spin on it, but I have a hard time picturing any part of the customer base going "nooo, we like the datamining, keep it in!"

That goes both ways, why are you scared they'll "add they'll own my cat" to the EULA when you know they won't/can't sue you for still having cats anyway.

And all this FUD for meaningless posturing about this one game? When you're not clearing your cookies while hopping between websites, use a smartphone or a modern OS (IOS or Windows >7), then your ass-cheeks are already being spread data gathering wise.

Don't fuck around over a cat metaphor, we're talking about perfectly feasible items here, in this instance adding the option to collect and sell user data to marketers, shit like that. As for why I take this position relative to WotR in particular, it's simply because I've been made aware of it thanks to that one customer who had the patience to go through the EULA. I'm well aware that Google can probably chart all our bowel movements, but that doesn't mean you can't minimise that exposure when opportunity arises, especially given the dismal practice of throwing the datamining in after release.

"Competitive market?" Really?

Yep. The thing about isometric cRPGs in particular is that they're a fairly mature format, and have been for a while, which means old titles aren't all that deprecated. So you're not just competing with new products coming out but also a hoard of classics. Especially at the rate I complete games, I can look at anything from Solasta or Black Geyser to Arcanum or any of the other old RPGs I missed out on.

I know the Codex likes to bitch about the scarcity of cRPGs these days, and the field ain't exactly plentiful, sure, but it ain't that barren either. And it's just videogames, at the end of the day, I was interested in WotR, but it's not quite an essential purchase.

 

[Average Manatee]

Don't ask about what's going on if you multiclass your characters to this

 

[Desiderius]

Well, first 2 Acts are stellar.
Act 3 changes the pacing, is different, but packed to the brim with content, so I'd say its still excellent, just different.
Act 4 changes the pacing again. Is pretty original. Has its quirks, isn't perfect, but I'd still rate it pretty high.
In Act 5 things go downhill fast.

I'd love act 2 to pieces if it wasn't for drezen. I like all the other maps, but drezen drains the soul out of me. The citadel is a cool dungeon but I would love it more if it there was a tempo break between it and the siege map.
I really love act1,3 and 4 though.

For me Drezen is the highlight of the game...

I would argue Ivory Labyrinth in Chapter 3 is one. Room and encounter design is still pretty nice topped off with a fun boss.

But yeah when your game peaked around half-way there are a lot of issue with your game

Wintersun is one of best maps ever. Up there with Old Sycamore.

 

[Haplo]

So here's what I'm thinking -
Since this is a game about going on crusade, I'm going to assume fanaticism is going to be appropriate. Which means some warhammer level of purging.
So, with that in mind :

Champion of the Faith archetype,
Deity : Asmodeus (for the mace, also edgy devil boi)
Spec into Hellknight Signifier, join Order of the Godclaw
Take Aeon Path, then Devil path

Commit war crimes along the way.



That should make a sufficiently edgy boi whilst still being somewhat logical thematically.
I wanted to go Zon Kuthon but Godclaw doesn't cover him and if I'm playing a crusading fanatical warrior priest I might as well go Godclaw.

I like your game plan in theory.
Although personally I'd hesitate before nerfing my character by going on an inferior late-game path.
Like Cyberarmy wrote, Aeon itself can be very much a "Judge Dread" type character. And late game Aeon is insanely strong (though it starts slow).
For Aeon - and particularly non-inquistitor Aeon - I recommend installing TableTop Tweaks mod - including the Mythic Reworks module. Otherwise the Aeon Bane is a very limited resource for non-inquisitors.

Mechanics-wise, Warpriest is one of the classes that really reward staying (mostly) pure.
Your weapon damage, Smite damage, Blessing effects all scale based on class levels.
So going for HK Signifier would be a purely RP choice, resulting in a weaker character overall.
There's a mod that adds the missing Catechesis Signifier class feature - that could at least allow to continue progressing Domains on an inquisitor / cleric or Mysteries on an Oracle. But I doubt it works for Warpriest Blessings, much less CotF Smite.

Although now that I think about it, there is a bit of anti-synergy with your class and path choice. Both Aeon and Warpriest invividually have crowded Swift Action economy (Aeon Bane, Swift Action regular and Aeon Mythic Spells, Fervor Swift Action Spells, Swift Blessings, Smite). Adding the 2 together means you will be unable to use half of your best features in most fights (and by the time your battle-ready, most battles will be mostly over).
Also, it may not be a huge issue, but there will be a large overlap between your class and Mythic Path spellbooks. Although spells from Mythic spellbook will be gained much later and will scale much slower.

As much as it pains me to write this, as I love BOTH your class and path choice, I recommend that you either change the class - maybe to a Judgement-less inquisitor (to avoid overcrowding Swift Actions) - like a Sanctified Slayer OR the Mythic Path (lich would have a different vibe - and to realize its full potential you should be a full arcane caster and merge the spellbooks for hyper-speed spell and Caster Level progression - but its definately not lacking).
Alternatively do some martial Godclaw Hellknight character, obligatory with Fearsomeness Discipline to make the enemies scared shitless when you engage them.

 

[Yosharian]

Judge Dread

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

So here's what I'm thinking -
Since this is a game about going on crusade, I'm going to assume fanaticism is going to be appropriate. Which means some warhammer level of purging.
So, with that in mind :

Champion of the Faith archetype,
Deity : Asmodeus (for the mace, also edgy devil boi)
Spec into Hellknight Signifier, join Order of the Godclaw
Take Aeon Path, then Devil path

Commit war crimes along the way.



That should make a sufficiently edgy boi whilst still being somewhat logical thematically.
I wanted to go Zon Kuthon but Godclaw doesn't cover him and if I'm playing a crusading fanatical warrior priest I might as well go Godclaw.

I like your game plan in theory.
Although personally I'd hesitate before nerfing my character by going on an inferior late-game path.
Like Cyberarmy wrote, Aeon itself can be very much a "Judge Dread" type character. And late game Aeon is insanely strong (though it starts slow).
For Aeon - and particularly non-inquistitor Aeon - I recommend installing TableTop Tweaks mod - including the Mythic Reworks module. Otherwise the Aeon Bane is a very limited resource for non-inquisitors.

Mechanics-wise, Warpriest is one of the classes that really reward staying (mostly) pure.
Your weapon damage, Smite damage, Blessing effects all scale based on class levels.
So going for HK Signifier would be a purely RP choice, resulting in a weaker character overall.
There's a mod that adds the missing Catechesis Signifier class feature - that could at least allow to continue progressing Domains on an inquisitor / cleric or Mysteries on an Oracle. But I doubt it works for Warpriest Blessings, much less CotF Smite.

Although now that I think about it, there is a bit of anti-synergy with your class and path choice. Both Aeon and Warpriest invividually have crowded Swift Action economy (Aeon Bane, Swift Action regular and Aeon Mythic Spells, Fervor Swift Action Spells, Swift Blessings, Smite). Adding the 2 together means you will be unable to use half of your best features in most fights (and by the time your battle-ready, most battles will be mostly over).
Also, it may not be a huge issue, but there will be a large overlap between your class and Mythic Path spellbooks. Although spells from Mythic spellbook will be gained much later and will scale much slower.

As much as it pains me to write this, as I love BOTH your class and path choice, I recommend that you either change the class - maybe to a Judgement-less inquisitor (to avoid overcrowding Swift Actions) - like a Sanctified Slayer OR the Mythic Path (lich would have a different vibe - and to realize its full potential you should be a full arcane caster and merge the spellbooks for hyper-speed spell and Caster Level progression - but its definately not lacking).
Alternatively do some martial Godclaw Hellknight character, obligatory with Fearsomeness Discipline to make the enemies scared shitless when you engage them.

Hmm that's a pity.
Inquisitor could work thematically, though I would like to go for Judge or Faith Hunter for that fanatic feel.

I guess Cruoromancer into Hellknight Signifier into Lich would be pretty edgy, but it lacks Deus Vult.

 

[Haplo]

So here's what I'm thinking -
Since this is a game about going on crusade, I'm going to assume fanaticism is going to be appropriate. Which means some warhammer level of purging.
So, with that in mind :

Champion of the Faith archetype,
Deity : Asmodeus (for the mace, also edgy devil boi)
Spec into Hellknight Signifier, join Order of the Godclaw
Take Aeon Path, then Devil path

Commit war crimes along the way.



That should make a sufficiently edgy boi whilst still being somewhat logical thematically.
I wanted to go Zon Kuthon but Godclaw doesn't cover him and if I'm playing a crusading fanatical warrior priest I might as well go Godclaw.

I like your game plan in theory.
Although personally I'd hesitate before nerfing my character by going on an inferior late-game path.
Like Cyberarmy wrote, Aeon itself can be very much a "Judge Dread" type character. And late game Aeon is insanely strong (though it starts slow).
For Aeon - and particularly non-inquistitor Aeon - I recommend installing TableTop Tweaks mod - including the Mythic Reworks module. Otherwise the Aeon Bane is a very limited resource for non-inquisitors.

Mechanics-wise, Warpriest is one of the classes that really reward staying (mostly) pure.
Your weapon damage, Smite damage, Blessing effects all scale based on class levels.
So going for HK Signifier would be a purely RP choice, resulting in a weaker character overall.
There's a mod that adds the missing Catechesis Signifier class feature - that could at least allow to continue progressing Domains on an inquisitor / cleric or Mysteries on an Oracle. But I doubt it works for Warpriest Blessings, much less CotF Smite.

Although now that I think about it, there is a bit of anti-synergy with your class and path choice. Both Aeon and Warpriest invividually have crowded Swift Action economy (Aeon Bane, Swift Action regular and Aeon Mythic Spells, Fervor Swift Action Spells, Swift Blessings, Smite). Adding the 2 together means you will be unable to use half of your best features in most fights (and by the time your battle-ready, most battles will be mostly over).
Also, it may not be a huge issue, but there will be a large overlap between your class and Mythic Path spellbooks. Although spells from Mythic spellbook will be gained much later and will scale much slower.

As much as it pains me to write this, as I love BOTH your class and path choice, I recommend that you either change the class - maybe to a Judgement-less inquisitor (to avoid overcrowding Swift Actions) - like a Sanctified Slayer OR the Mythic Path (lich would have a different vibe - and to realize its full potential you should be a full arcane caster and merge the spellbooks for hyper-speed spell and Caster Level progression - but its definately not lacking).
Alternatively do some martial Godclaw Hellknight character, obligatory with Fearsomeness Discipline to make the enemies scared shitless when you engage them.

Hmm that's a pity.
Inquisitor could work thematically, though I would like to go for Judge or Faith Hunter for that fanatic feel.

Well, Swift Action-wise, Judge is terrible even *without* accounting for bonus Aeon Swift Actions. Its a cool class in theory, but terrible in execution (at least without mods to change its action economy).
And Faith Hunter is... sorta ok, as an inquisitor? But doesn't help with the Action Economy over regular inquisitors in the slightest: keeps Swift Judgements, adds Swift Smites to the mix.
And looses Domain Powers, which are some of the strongest inquisitor abilities with Domain Zealot available.
Would be fine for non-Aeon, but for Aeon I recommend either Sacred Huntsmaster or Sanctified Slayer - with emphasis on the latter (trades Judgements for passive Sneak Attacks and Studied Target bonuses - applied passively when you land a sneak).

Or go with some martial Hellknight multiclass perhaps? Gets Smite Chaos, Fearsomeness is an OP ability vs many enemies (if you can live with them running away - but as the radius on that is very small, you can usually contain it/apply where you want it), Godclaw can get some pretty nice Domain powers, armor, eventually weapon Axiomatic enchantments. Not a powergaming choice, but not bad either.
The Mythic Path will eventually provide some nice spellcasting options (Aeon spellbok is great - and includes most of Inquisitor standard spells), although its progression is a bit slow.

I guess Cruoromancer into Hellknight Signifier into Lich would be pretty edgy, but it lacks Deus Vult.

Could do this with a Charisma caster and try to fit normal HK in there with Smite Chaos. Not many levels, maybe just one (or 3 for Fearsomeness Discipline), but still... With Abundant Smites Mythic Ability and page from the Duality book, should be enough to Smite a few heathens per rest.
Nearly obligatory 10 Eldritch Knight, of course

 

[Yosharian]

HK 10 isn't that bad, you get a very good Smite and some nice toys such as free Axiomatic at level 10.

Take the Order of the Nail for AB/DMG bonuses.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I considered going just Hellknight, but I would have to ideally go as a fighter first to be able to use Heavy Armor, and I remember how boring my fighter party members were to use in Kingmaker.
It's why I wanted to try going for a divine caster this time (I played an Alchemist in Kingmaker already, and that's a ranged squishy spell caster thing), but with a hellknight signifier for some extra edge and thematically speaking the hellknights would get involved in a crusade against demons.
My issue with the Sacred Huntsmaster and Sanctified Slayer is that they are more ranger / rogue characters, and I was hoping for more of a "direct" approach.

How are cleric crusaders? What's their swift action economy like?

 

[volklore]

Hk signifier is a bit redundant with divine casters since they already can cast in armor without any penalty. It's a class that seems made for arcane casters that want to cast in heavy armor.
Cleric crusader is quite a good class. You do get a 1 level penalty to spell progression that's kinda hidden in the UI. But not many reason to pick signifier for it as you can get your HA proficiency through your bonus feats anyway. Only swift that could interfere with your aeon stuff is if you pick domain zealot (swift action domains).
Those inquisitors don't have to be rangers though pick a martial weapon (you can use backgrounds to get certain martial prof for free) you could even splash 1 level of signifier if you want HA proficiency and the RP flair without impacting the character too much.
Funnily enough I like aeon alchemist a lot, no swift action competition and Bane bombs are pretty dope boss killers (you don't get the extra dmg but everything else applies) although very limited resource.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Hk signifier is a bit redundant with divine casters since they already can cast in armor without any penalty. It's a class that seems made for arcane casters that want to cast in heavy armor.

Not exactly. Most Divine Casters are capped out at Medium Armour. Warpriests and Demonbane Clerics can use Heavy, but most seem to be limited to medium.

 

[Haplo]

Hk signifier is a bit redundant with divine casters since they already can cast in armor without any penalty. It's a class that seems made for arcane casters that want to cast in heavy armor.

Not exactly. Most Divine Casters are capped out at Medium Armour. Warpriests and Demonbane Clerics can use Heavy, but most seem to be limited to medium.

All can use Heavy without casting penalties. Most do not have the Proficiency, but can pick it as a feat or get it from multiclassing (new revision Sosiel picks Heavy Proficiency as a feat).

And yeah, without Catechesis, Hellknight Signifier is a bit pointless for Divine Casters. Even with that, its a tough sell.
I mean on Arcane casters its generally a dip class also (up to 3 levels to use Mithral Fullplate without Spell Failure).

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Well crap, might as well go pure Crusader or Demonbane, if Warpriest isn't good with Aeon then.
I mean, Demonbane sounds pretty edgy.
What about Demonbane into Hellknight? Hellknight doesn't prevent casting, right?

 

[Haplo]

Well crap, might as well go pure Crusader or Demonbane, if Warpriest isn't good with Aeon then.
I mean, Demonbane sounds pretty edgy.

Hm, I guess it does.
Again, what you trade away (one Domain, and 1 spellslot per spell level) isn't really worth what you gain (trivial Heavy Armor Profi, some Teamwork feats or some *very* limited combat feats in case of Crusader).

Plus with cleric you're moving further into buffing/support territory. There the Aeon standard spell redundancy can be felt even more I think. You're missing out on nifty combat bonuses that Warpriests or Inquisitors get (weapon enchantments, smites, Blessings/Domains, Bane, Initiative bonuses, Studied Target & Sneak bonuses).

With a Cleric I'd be very tempted to go with the Angel Mythic Path (Retribution Angel) and do the mighty Divine Spellbook merge for hyper-boosted spell access and Caster Level progression.

 

[volklore]

Pure Crusader is not bad. You still get a bunch of combat feats and depending on the deity he wants to pick, 1 lost domain isn't always a dealbreaker (asmodeus has not best base domains too). Inquistor/warpriest are strictly better for a martial focused char but on core, crusader aeon should do pretty decent.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, Demonbane and Crusader seem to be more combat focused than your typical cleric build, so it might be compatible with Hellknight.

 

[Yosharian]

It's why I wanted to try going for a divine caster this time (I played an Alchemist in Kingmaker already, and that's a ranged squishy spell caster thing), but with a hellknight signifier for some extra edge and thematically speaking the hellknights would get involved in a crusade against demons.

Fair enough, HKS is just underwhelming though.

Have you considered Oracle or is that not Lawful enough for you? Battle Oracle is extremely powerful and you can take the Hellbound curse for that LE theme - it's actually one of the most powerful curses, too.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I actually no idea what an Oracle was. I'll have a look at it.

 

[Haplo]

I considered going just Hellknight, but I would have to ideally go as a fighter first to be able to use Heavy Armor, and I remember how boring my fighter party members were to use in Kingmaker.
It's why I wanted to try going for a divine caster this time (I played an Alchemist in Kingmaker already, and that's a ranged squishy spell caster thing), but with a hellknight signifier for some extra edge and thematically speaking the hellknights would get involved in a crusade against demons.
My issue with the Sacred Huntsmaster and Sanctified Slayer is that they are more ranger / rogue characters, and I was hoping for more of a "direct" approach.

Sanctified Slayer could make a fine sword & board character. Its an inquisitor / Slayer hybrid. And Slayers are arguably some of the best shield bashers.

Also, how do you feel about mounts?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I considered going just Hellknight, but I would have to ideally go as a fighter first to be able to use Heavy Armor, and I remember how boring my fighter party members were to use in Kingmaker.
It's why I wanted to try going for a divine caster this time (I played an Alchemist in Kingmaker already, and that's a ranged squishy spell caster thing), but with a hellknight signifier for some extra edge and thematically speaking the hellknights would get involved in a crusade against demons.
My issue with the Sacred Huntsmaster and Sanctified Slayer is that they are more ranger / rogue characters, and I was hoping for more of a "direct" approach.

Sanctified Slayer could make a fine sword & board character. Its an inquisitor / Slayer hybrid. And Slayers are arguably some of the best shield bashers.

Also, how do you feel about mounts?

I don't know anything about them, other that they are in the game.

 

[Haplo]

I considered going just Hellknight, but I would have to ideally go as a fighter first to be able to use Heavy Armor, and I remember how boring my fighter party members were to use in Kingmaker.
It's why I wanted to try going for a divine caster this time (I played an Alchemist in Kingmaker already, and that's a ranged squishy spell caster thing), but with a hellknight signifier for some extra edge and thematically speaking the hellknights would get involved in a crusade against demons.
My issue with the Sacred Huntsmaster and Sanctified Slayer is that they are more ranger / rogue characters, and I was hoping for more of a "direct" approach.

Sanctified Slayer could make a fine sword & board character. Its an inquisitor / Slayer hybrid. And Slayers are arguably some of the best shield bashers.

Also, how do you feel about mounts?

I don't know anything about them, other that they are in the game.

They change the combat dynamics A LOT.
Generally all normal attacks target the mount, rather then the rider (AoOs target both, rider first). Cleaves can go either way.
So you can mostly ignore defenses on rider and go full offense - while defensively buffing the pet (they are very strong in Wrath).

Also in vanilla you get to full attack after mounted movement...

Some of them are also quite strong offensively. And many can Trip when attacking, bringing great single-target CC support.

Then there are the Charges/Mounted Charges - that are capable of ridiculous damage when stacking various charge-related damage bonuses. But its another story.

Out of the classes you've considered so far: Warpriests don't get mounts, Inquisitors and clerics do (from Animal Domain - or directly in case of Sacred Huntsmaster), Hellknights don't, Oracles with Nature Mystery do (limited choice).

There's also a nifty trick for multiclassing (say a Hellknight) to get a full-level mount: pick 10 levels in Sacred Huntsmaster and still pick Impossible Domain: Animal - your SH levels will count (nearly) double for AC level purposes.
TableTop Tweaks mod has other ways to get a pet, for example 4th level Cavaliers/Gendarmes can pick Horse Master feat to keep a full-levelled mount.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Hmm a crusading mounted inquisitor sounds badarse.
Can I still melee effectively with a Sacred Huntsmaster, pick heavy armour and dualclass into hellknight? Or maybe hellknight signifer just to the free proficiency, though the lack of a key ability is a downside.
Dunno why Owlcat forgot to put that in.

Can I do Law Domain as a Sacred Huntmaster and still do the cheese strat?