Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[LannTheStupid]

Just firewall it, disable your NIC, or run it on a completely offline machine if you're so worried.

I praise your effort and patience to try "I can fix you" on an intellectually challenged person.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Just firewall it, disable your NIC, or run it on a completely offline machine if you're so worried.

I praise your effort and patience to try "I can fix you" on an intellectually challenged person.

Quit trying to butter me up, everyone knows you're the right hand of Putin. As soon as my data is analyzed from the Wrath trojan horse, you're going to stuff me in a sack and grind me into Soylent Green to feed the Russian army in Ukraine.

 

[Lady Error]

From what I read of it, it sounds like people are upset about their bug reporting / diagnostic stuff. Is that what you had in mind, or is there something more specific you're talking about?

"The TL;DR is that the game requires you to allow Owlcat Games the ability to download third-party software onto your computer. This external software is permitted to scrape your machine for data, including hardware specs and other installed apps. The data is supposedly anonymized, but is geolocated. The scraped information is then permitted to be used for marketing purposes with any of Owlcat's marketing partners.

I believe this is called "spyware" and unfortunately, it seems as though Owlcat snuck this in. From what I can gather, a small update occurred shortly before the Inevitable Update which added this text to the EULA; it was not present before. For a game which had already been on the market several months, this is very shady behavior. Most current (and new, for that matter) users are just going to click through the EULA without reading it.

So, unfortunately, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is (in my opinion) retroactively made spyware by one of the most recent updates, and I strongly recommend folks avoid it until Owlcat removes the text and offending code from their EULA and game. (For what it's worth, Kingmaker doesn't seem to have the same problem.)"

From the top review on GOG: https://af.gog.com/en/game/pathfinder_wrath_of_the_righteous?as=1649904300

 

[Chippy]

Owlcat want to find out how many Codexers are secretly furries.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Owlcat want to find out how many Codexers are secretly furries.

 

[LannTheStupid]

So maybe the data gathered from the game will help guiding the Kalibrs on Western cities? If so, the game truly deserves the title "Wrath of the Righteous."

 

[Orud]

"The TL;DR is that the game requires you to allow Owlcat Games the ability to download third-party software onto your computer. This external software is permitted to scrape your machine for data, including hardware specs and other installed apps. The data is supposedly anonymized, but is geolocated. The scraped information is then permitted to be used for marketing purposes with any of Owlcat's marketing partners.

I believe this is called "spyware" and unfortunately, it seems as though Owlcat snuck this in. From what I can gather, a small update occurred shortly before the Inevitable Update which added this text to the EULA; it was not present before. For a game which had already been on the market several months, this is very shady behavior. Most current (and new, for that matter) users are just going to click through the EULA without reading it.

So, unfortunately, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is (in my opinion) retroactively made spyware by one of the most recent updates, and I strongly recommend folks avoid it until Owlcat removes the text and offending code from their EULA and game. (For what it's worth, Kingmaker doesn't seem to have the same problem.)"

From the top review on GOG: https://af.gog.com/en/game/pathfinder_wrath_of_the_righteous?as=1649904300

Yeah, so turn off data metrics to share your play experience (including save-games) in the options and, when you encounter a bug or crash, choose not to submit system data. Like, what did you think you were sending them if you enable all that?

And before you go, "that's not all they're submitting!!!!!", got any proof of that? The reviews are extremely light on details and only one other review points to the evil privacy agreement at https://owlcat.games/privacy... which is about their site.

 

[Chippy]

Owlcat want to find out how many Codexers are secretly furries.

View attachment 35964

Pathfinder 3: Kingdom of the Furry.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Pathfinder 3: Kingdom of the Furry.

Tian Xia exists on Golarion, and China has to be pleased -- maybe more than by a pet dragon.

 

[Rhobar121]

Pathfinder 3: Kingdom of the Furry.

Tian Xia exists on Golarion, and China has to be pleased -- maybe more than by a pet dragon.

Literally the worst setting I've ever seen

 

[Skorpion]

So does it still have the spyware in the current version? It's on sale for $12 on GOG.

I like how you asked this question knowing full well the answer (that you think) anyway. Feeling bored or lonely?

 

[volklore]

What makes blightmaw immune to sneak attacks ?
Went through his sheet three times and all I can think about in Improved Uncanny Doge. However IUD clearly states that this doesn't deny sneak attacks for rogues that have at least 4 more rogue levels than the target. My character was rogue 5 and blightmaw doesn't have any rogue levels.

EDIT : nvm seems like owlcat description is incomplete. Blightmaw is barb 12 and got IUD from barb and according to the description of IUD in the tabletop ruleset, barb levels count as rogue levels for this purpose.

 

[PrK]

From what I read of it, it sounds like people are upset about their bug reporting / diagnostic stuff. Is that what you had in mind, or is there something more specific you're talking about?

"The TL;DR is that the game requires you to allow Owlcat Games the ability to download third-party software onto your computer. This external software is permitted to scrape your machine for data, including hardware specs and other installed apps. The data is supposedly anonymized, but is geolocated. The scraped information is then permitted to be used for marketing purposes with any of Owlcat's marketing partners.

I believe this is called "spyware" and unfortunately, it seems as though Owlcat snuck this in. From what I can gather, a small update occurred shortly before the Inevitable Update which added this text to the EULA; it was not present before. For a game which had already been on the market several months, this is very shady behavior. Most current (and new, for that matter) users are just going to click through the EULA without reading it.

So, unfortunately, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is (in my opinion) retroactively made spyware by one of the most recent updates, and I strongly recommend folks avoid it until Owlcat removes the text and offending code from their EULA and game. (For what it's worth, Kingmaker doesn't seem to have the same problem.)"

From the top review on GOG: https://af.gog.com/en/game/pathfinder_wrath_of_the_righteous?as=1649904300

Well we have a dev here (Owlcat_Eyler) that can hopefully clear this up, especially the post-purchase insert of obviously abusive EULA clauses part that leaves piracy as the most effective remedy.

 

[Cpt. Dallas]

The inventory interface is not suited at all to the tile/domino puzzles they've chosen. You can't see the board and your inventory at the same time. Something drag and drop would be much better.

 

[Lady Error]

So does it still have the spyware in the current version? It's on sale for $12 on GOG.

I like how you asked this question knowing full well the answer (that you think) anyway. Feeling bored or lonely?

Feeling attacked that someone points out a flaw in what you like? How am I supposed to know whether they listened to complaints, such as the top review on GOG?

 

[Gargaune]

Well we have a dev here (@Owlcat_Eyler) that can hopefully clear this up, especially the post-purchase insert of obviously abusive EULA clauses part that leaves piracy as the most effective remedy.

Tag all you want, you won't get an answer - the first task of any PR job is to engage with your target audience, the second is to not engage when you can't spin your way out of serious criticism, and there's no way to spin changing the EULA and ramming spyware down your throat post-purchase into the industry standard "and that's a good thing!"

I loved PFKM and I was sure I was gonna get WotR after it, but Owlcat got a little greedy at launch and I decided to wait for a moderate sale. By the time that came around, however, they pulled this EULA/datamining bullshit and poof, WotR and all future Owlcat products landed on my no-sale list, because I can no longer trust they won't alter the deal to say they own my cat. I don't even have a cat, but what's to stop them from saying "[...] and any cat you shall acquire hereafter?" Since lawmakers and regulators are firmly in the IT industry's pockets, all we have with developers is a gentlemen's agreement not to be complete jerkoffs, and once that trust's gone...

 

[LannTheStupid]

I wonder if that top GOG review is part of a Polish smear campaign against a former Russian game development studio.

I also wonder if this Codex user is an agent involved in the dissemination of this campaign.

 

[Skorpion]

So does it still have the spyware in the current version? It's on sale for $12 on GOG.

I like how you asked this question knowing full well the answer (that you think) anyway. Feeling bored or lonely?

Feeling attacked that someone points out a flaw in what you like? How am I supposed to know whether they listened to complaints, such as the top review on GOG?

This makes as much sense as asking questions youve already assumed the answer to. How about you just state your opinions like a normal brain instead of talking in circles?

 

[LannTheStupid]

mediocrepoet "The truth is out there" (C).

 

[Infinitron]

PC Gamer finally plays the first act: https://www.pcgamer.com/the-first-a...-i-didnt-mind-playing-through-it-three-times/

The first act of this impenetrable RPG was so good, I didn't mind playing through it three times​

Wrath of the Righteous' first act is tense and supremely challenging.

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous(opens in new tab) is a funky game, creaking under the weight of all its systems, subclasses, sidequests, and God, that name(opens in new tab). It's also the game that saw me through first catching Covid, and retroactively my personal game of the year for 2021. Wrath of the Righteous also just makes a phenomenal first impression. Well, second impression.

Your first real gameplay with WotR (I'm filing a grievance if I have to keep writing it out) is cramped dungeon crawling in some caverns under the city of Kenabres. It's pretty standard CRPG tutorial/prologue fare, elevated here by WotR's punishing difficulty and tactically rich encounters. Once you're above ground though? Act one is juicy.

You're stuck in a city under siege by demons, with your only safe haven a fortified tavern in the thick of it. The powers that be saddle you with a couple main objectives like uncovering the enemy's plans or rescuing a plot-important individual, but you've also got a bevy of optional objectives like saving townsfolk or recruiting companions to pursue. Important areas to hit are sprinkled through a Baldur's Gate-y world map of the city rendered in stunning detail⁠—your party's represented as a chess piece sliding around a parchment map in real time, with this audible rasp as you scrape your way over alleys rendered in ink.

Here's the twist though: moving through the map and resting to heal up after encounters takes time, and within a few in-game days of starting act one, your tavern base will come under attack(opens in new tab) by demons. Not only is this a supremely long, challenging, and inventive encounter with almost tower defense-style gameplay transposed to Pathfinder rules, but a lot of those optional objectives I mentioned earlier get fundamentally altered or fail entirely if you save them for after the siege.

I wound up playing up to this point from the beginning three times my first playthrough. The first, I took my time and luxuriated, liberally resting to refresh my health and spells⁠—the CRPG's equivalent of quick saving every five seconds in case you're spotted in an immersive sim. I was barely able to make any progress on my quests, and wound up coming into the midterm megafight woefully underleveled. After thirty minutes of turn-based battling, I was down half my party but close to the end, or so I figured. That's when a big old miniboss of a hell-minotaur showed up and cleaved through the rest of my guys.

Second round: I made it all the way through to the other side, but some of the quests I missed were kinda load-bearing for the companion and build choices I wanted to make. This seriously cheesed me off at the time, but now I think of it fondly⁠—it's a rare game that has the guts to say "fuck you, deal with it" when you miss something or mess up, and I love a hardcore, unforgiving game. Anyway, I started my Groundhog Day loop over one more time and absolutely beasted through Kenabres under siege, nailed every quest and level up I was aiming for, and showed that hell-minotaur what for.

The rest of Wrath of the Righteous is great as well, but the tense, low-level, high-stakes gameplay of the first act especially speaks to me. It's hard to do low-level d20 combat right, but Owlcat nailed it like few others⁠—after 2003 or so most RPGs want to rush you past the early levels so you can get all your juicy powers and stop whiffing attack rolls, and only old favorites like the original Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and the Temple of Elemental Evil, or obscure gems like the excellent Swordflight (opens in new tab)campaign for Neverwinter Nights come to mind as really luxuriating in and celebrating low-level RPG combat.

The tavern siege set piece is this great moment of catharsis for all the timed questing you were just rushing to get in, and I think it's an all-timer CRPG combat encounter⁠—splitting up your party to cover the weaknesses in this perimeter then rushing to adapt as the situation changes, cursing out the gaggle of demon cultists that spawned right where you're most defenseless. I also love how Owlcat necessarily limits your resting with this first act's time crunch, turning it into a prolonged resource management challenge.

It's clear Owlcat realizes it hit on something special with this first act⁠—WotR's second DLC, Through the Ashes(opens in new tab), was a low level adventure with even more resource constraints set in Kenabres in parallel to the events of act one. Now I'm just hoping the studio can spark that same tense, exhilarating feeling in its upcoming Warhammer 40K CRPG, Rogue Trader(opens in new tab).

 

[Orud]

Tag all you want, you won't get an answer - the first task of any PR job is to engage with your target audience, the second is to not engage when you can't spin your way out of serious criticism, and there's no way to spin changing the EULA and ramming spyware down your throat post-purchase into the industry standard "and that's a good thing!"

I loved PFKM and I was sure I was gonna get WotR after it, but Owlcat got a little greedy at launch and I decided to wait for a moderate sale. By the time that came around, however, they pulled this EULA/datamining bullshit and poof, WotR and all future Owlcat products landed on my no-sale list, because I can no longer trust they won't alter the deal to say they own my cat. I don't even have a cat, but what's to stop them from saying "[...] and any cat you shall acquire hereafter?" Since lawmakers and regulators are firmly in the IT industry's pockets, all we have with developers is a gentlemen's agreement not to be complete jerkoffs, and once that trust's gone...

It's probably nothing more than a CYA (cover your ass) clause added to make sure their user-metrics (which you can disable) and bug-notification process (which you can choose not to submit) are covered.
The EULA is mostly to wipe your ass with anyway, nothing in there is enforceable. Even in the US it rarely gets any traction, cases like Nintendo's joy-con debacle are the exception rather than the norm.

If people are so damn scared of it, why hasn't anyone simply launched a wireshark and looked at what is uploaded by WoTR? Takes 30 seconds to download and install.
My guess is that you don't hear anything outside of the evil "EULA" contract because there's jack shit to worry about. And until anyone can (EASILY) prove it, this is the last thing I'll worry about.

 

[Max Damage]

I wasn't planning on getting WotR, but since it's not too expensive and got sweet 70% discount on GOG recently, I decided to give it a try, and prologue + first act were pretty damn good, so far the game is pretty much an improvement over Kingmaker in every way, especially encounter design and music. I would even say it's got best first act out of all RPGs I've ever played, including tactical ones.

 

[Rhobar121]

I wasn't planning on getting WotR, but since it's not too expensive and got sweet 70% discount on GOG recently, I decided to give it a try, and prologue + first act were pretty damn good, so far the game is pretty much an improvement over Kingmaker in every way, especially encounter design and music. I would even say it's got best first act out of all RPGs I've ever played, including tactical ones.

The first two acts are very good, then unfortunately the level goes down dramatically.

 

[Haplo]

Well, first 2 Acts are stellar.
Act 3 changes the pacing, is different, but packed to the brim with content, so I'd say its still excellent, just different.
Act 4 changes the pacing again. Is pretty original. Has its quirks, isn't perfect, but I'd still rate it pretty high.
In Act 5 things go downhill fast.

 

[Yosharian]

I completely agree with PCG's take (well that hurts to write) because Act 1 is contained within a relatively small space that allows the player to breathe but doesn't overwhelm them.

I began to find the game tedious as soon as I was exposed to the game's horrible world map filled with pointless and boring encounters, and padded out with that godawful HOMM minigame.

I liked Act 4 somewhat as it was a return to that same design from Act 1, but Act 4 has its own problems, principally the fucking horrible map navigation that gets old after about 30 seconds.