Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Average Manatee]

I know, its great. There's a surprising number of enemies that you can instantly kill too. I think I killed a few bosses and mythic enemies with it.
I think you can kill Xanthir with it, but I'm not sure. I'm sure I used it on him but I can't remember if it didn't get past his saves or if he was immune. It's kind of jank either way because of his 4 phases where he just comes back to life with full health like 3 times.

If it ever fails, check if you can dispel whatever is giving them immunity. Most of the time you can. I'm not sure about Xanthir specifically though, normally Swarms are immune to mind affecting spells (Serpentine Bloodline can bypass this). There's an item in Drezen that can help you succeed on dispel checks if you haven't gotten it already.

Minor cheese/exploit:

Spoiler

The take-20 effect from using that item lasts permanently until you use a dispel, so you can have it up on, say, 3 people with greater dispel, then after one of them dispels use it again and have 4 uses in one battle. Very good usage of any caster's turn if the boss isn't susceptible to whatever they are packing. Or just hand a quicken rod around to everyone with level 6 spells. Will often knock off like 10 AB/AC + haste and all their immunities and illusion shit everyone and their mother packs in this game

 

[Desiderius]

Don't Druids use wisdom for their spells though? Why not invest more into Lann's wisdom so he can be an effective druid and zen archer?
You do get a free stat point every few levels and there's a lot of wisdom boosting gear.

Because it's easy to boost both. I usually keep the stat boost enchants (like Cat's Grace) up (especially once the Mass ones are unlocked) for key stats on each toon. TTT/Dark Codex has the Idealize Arcane Discovery that ups those by two at lvl ten for the Brown Fur Transmuter-type boost. Eventually you can find items that give similar bonuses but you might want one with an effect on it so go with the buff instead.

The free stat points are used to round off Lann's stats since he starts with odd ones. INT gives him 10 additional skill pts etc...

Enlarge does cost him 1 AB until Legendary becomes available but that's not worth a whole level. As I said I eventually picked it up for Point Blank Master but the Druid levels are more valuable until then. I eventually respecced him to Nomad because he's not beating Unfair saves as a Druid but that wouldn't be the case on lower difficulties and Druid has several unique spells. Drovier speed aura is great for slow classes like Mutation Warrior.

 

[Average Manatee]

btw, funny thing/trick: If you have corrupt magic from Lich, which dispels everything and gives -1 AB and -1 saving throws per buff dispelled, a lot of bosses actually become easier the higher the difficulty level is because a lot of their increased power comes from getting more buffs and therefore end up with startlingly low stats after using corrupt magic. I don't have my lich save to check but IIRC Areelu ended up with a will save under 20 on unfair. lmao sucker.

 

[scytheavatar]

Again, why ZA 2 instead of 3? Did you make a typo? On the third level, the Zen Archer starts using Wisdom instead of Dexterity for the accuracy of a bow.

Because Lann's WIS and DEX are identical. Need ZA2 for Precise.

Using WIS you can increase Lann's size without decreasing his accuracy. Otherwise, he will suffer -1 (I think) due to DEX penalty for the large size.

Is that 1 attack really worth delaying your Druid progression? Not just spells but also getting to level 14 where you get Aspect of the Wolf.

 

[Average Manatee]

Is that 1 attack really worth delaying your Druid progression? Not just spells but also getting to level 14 where you get Aspect of the Wolf.

No lol. If you're changing class to a spellcaster you want all the progression unless you have a much better excuse than that. There's definitely an argument to be made that Druid has one of the worse spell lists for a level 9 caster, but I still wouldn't even go to ZA2.

Drovier is great, make sure everyone who wants phys stats takes Master Shapeshifter immediately for a huge power spike once you hit mythic ranks.

 

[Desiderius]

It's ok but +2 is hardly huge. Get the class-specific Mythics first.

ZA2 gives him Precise Shot which he really needs along with Weapon Focus. Druid is pretty starved for Feats and getting Precise without needing Point Blank prereq is nice. I guess you could eventually just cast with Druid and shoot enemy casters and archers to avoid the malus then he wouldn't need Precise at all, but I like it for Snowball as well.

Clashing Rocks is Long Range and no SR like most Conjuration Spells. Druid wants Conjuration Focus for Summoning Feats so it's a decent spell. Nature's Ally are better Summons than Wiz/Cleric get. Foresight is always nice to have access to.

 

[Average Manatee]

Doesn't need ZA2 if you just drop the bow and give him a melee weapon. As you say, Ranged is a bit feat heavy while basic two hander melee doesn't need much support. Could use those feats to build him as a switch nuker.

 

[Desiderius]

That loses Flurry. People trying way too hard here. Druid does *not* want to be in melee (unless it’s Wild Shaping which Drovier loses).

One of the biggest weaknesses of the Druid class is that it usually can’t even equip a Crossbow (unlike even Wizard) which sux because with fast progression it does want to hang back and cast.

The ZA level and Lann’s stats not only gives him as Druid Longbow proficiency it starts him out with double the usual attacks and he does good damage with them due to high STR and being able to use Composite unlike other casters stuck ploinking with an xBow.

Flurry means not needing Rapid so that saves a Feat anyway. Since Druid is a 3/4 class he can be a decent archer until he gets to the point where he has enough casts to just cast full-time.

Not great but not bad on Unfair (still have the good buffs and Summons), but really good on lower difficulties.

 

[Xamenos]

Been a while. I'm thinking of giving this another shot over the summer. Is the game done? As in, all DLC out, most patching done, Owlcat moving on to developing the next game? Or should I delay what's almost certainly going to be my only complete playthrough?

 

[Haplo]

No, neither DLCs nor patching are done.
That said, game's in a pretty good shape and it's not like you need all DLC content.

Data mining suggests new archetypes coming... but it's not like the game is lacking.

 

[Xamenos]

Still? Good for them, it must have been a huge seller. What DLC are we still expecting? I can live without new archetypes, even the base game had enough to satisfy my build autism, but will they be adding more actual content too?

 

[scytheavatar]

Been a while. I'm thinking of giving this another shot over the summer. Is the game done? As in, all DLC out, most patching done, Owlcat moving on to developing the next game? Or should I delay what's almost certainly going to be my only complete playthrough?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...pg-from-owlcat-games-beta-on-june-1st.143159/

Owlcat is already developing their next game, which should be out early next year. It seems at the meantime they are determined to run WOTR like it is Path of Exile and constantly give it updates, we will see how far they can go with it.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Xamenos you do realize why Kingmaker is "done" and no development goes into it? WotR is not in the same situation, so I hope they will continue improving the game.

The third Season Pass, though, might be too much.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

No, neither DLCs nor patching are done.
That said, game's in a pretty good shape and it's not like you need all DLC content.

Data mining suggests new archetypes coming... but it's not like the game is lacking.

I hope one of the patches give HKS Divine Casting scaling.
I mean, it explicitly says in the fluff that clerics join HKS orders, so them not retaining divine caster levels is kind of silly and limits your build options.

 

[Desiderius]

Xamenos you do realize why Kingmaker is "done" and no development goes into it? WotR is not in the same situation, so I hope they will continue improving the game.

The third Season Pass, though, might be too much.

Wrath Trader is the third season pass.

 

[Parabalus]

Flurry means not needing Rapid so that saves a Feat anyway.

Didn't they used to stack? When was that changed?

 

[Parabalus]

Insistent Summons, Demon mythic - can you do the 90 DC Intimidate check? How much XP would that get you?

 

[Average Manatee]

That loses Flurry. People trying way too hard here. Druid does *not* want to be in melee (unless it’s Wild Shaping which Drovier loses).

Why not?

3/4ths AB class, can ride their pet, has 17 str/17 dex, 21/21 after you account for master shapeshifting. That's great stats for any melee character. The fact that you already have the pet means that space is going to be taken up on the frontline whether you're ranged or not, and the primary benefit of ranged (full attack every round regardless of where the enemy is) no longer exists since a pet lets you move halfway across the map and still take your full round attack. Let him and his pet take advantage of outflank, 1.5x strength damage + better strength AB, better crits, and AoOs whenever his pet trips things.

 

[Desiderius]

Flurry means not needing Rapid so that saves a Feat anyway.

Didn't they used to stack? When was that changed?

Stacks for Sohei, likely a bug. Sohei doesn't get PBM so my sense is that the Mount is intended for positioning and defense rather than melee so they let them stack to make up for it. Makes sense for what it represents (mobile Horse Archers).

 

[Desiderius]

That loses Flurry. People trying way too hard here. Druid does *not* want to be in melee (unless it’s Wild Shaping which Drovier loses).

Why not?

3/4ths AB class, can ride their pet, has 17 str/17 dex, 21/21 after you account for master shapeshifting. That's great stats for any melee character. The fact that you already have the pet means that space is going to be taken up on the frontline whether you're ranged or not, and the primary benefit of ranged (full attack every round regardless of where the enemy is) no longer exists since a pet lets you move halfway across the map and still take your full round attack. Let him and his pet take advantage of outflank, 1.5x strength damage, better crits, and AoOs whenever his pet trips things.

Because Flurry doubles his attacks from level one. By the time it's useful for him to ride instead of pew pewing at range you can afford the third ZA lvl for PBM if you want to attack or are better off hanging back at range if you want to cast. Pet will do work whether mounted or not.

There are Druid archetypes that could do ok with Mounted Melee, but not ones that start the game with two attacks and Longbow proficiency from a ZA level. Hypothetically sure you could just save needing the Snap Shot Feats by going melee but if I were going to do that I'd just do a full respec (with respec mod*). I hate wasting levels/Feats taking Companions a completely different direction from which they were designed both because that almost always suxxors and also because I enjoy the challenge of working within the initial restrictions while appreciating how they set some limits on the infinite options that otherwise would in fact be overwhelming.

I did end up using vanilla respec to take him ZA1/Nomad which worked better for an attacker since his spells weren't beating Unfair saves as a Druid. Regular Nomad does use melee weps for awhile until it's ranged skillz kick in, but with Lann he went unmounted for awhile.

* - Greybor makes an interesting Two-weapon Fighter if you have access to that archetype via mod

a pet lets you move halfway across the map and still take your full round attack

In TTT you can only do this at the end of a Feat chain and lvl 14 at the earliest.

 

[Average Manatee]

Maybe in the short term flurry is better (though I'd highly value a +2 flanking bonus and AoOs on Hard/Unfair), but by Act 2-3 the melee build is definitely ahead IMO. Plus, you're against wasting flurry, but you're intending to waste a whole extra level of spell progression and pet level on ZA. You have to account for that. Having 19 pet levels is enough that I wouldn't worry about boon companion, but 18 pet levels means you might feel the need to spend an extra feet fixing that.

 

[Parabalus]

Flurry means not needing Rapid so that saves a Feat anyway.

Didn't they used to stack? When was that changed?

Stacks for Sohei, likely a bug. Sohei doesn't get PBM so my sense is that the Mount is intended for positioning and defense rather than melee so they let them stack to make up for it. Makes sense for what it represents (mobile Horse Archers).

It used to stack for Zen Archers too, made them decent.

 

[Desiderius]

Maybe in the short term flurry is better (though I'd highly value a +2 flanking bonus and AoOs on Hard/Unfair), but by Act 2-3 the melee build is definitely ahead IMO. Plus, you're against wasting flurry, but you're intending to waste a whole extra level of spell progression and pet level on ZA. You have to account for that. Having 19 pet levels is enough that I wouldn't worry about boon companion, but 18 pet levels means you might feel the need to spend an extra feet fixing that.

Pets are OP already. I think I did pick up Boon somewhere as well tho. ZA3/Drovier only mounted up later since it wanted several other Feats before Snap Shot. Nice thing about Conj is it doesn't need Spell Pen.

So I guess he was wasting his Combat Reflexes for a long time. The ZA1/Nomad was much more effective in combat. Skipping Precise for ZA1/Drovier caster might be good at non-Unfair difficulties, but I'm not equipping melee weapons on a Zen Archer.

 

[Desiderius]

Zen Archers are awesome, especially since Perfect Strike gets three rolls at lvl ten now. Bless Weapon crit fishing at that level with Cleaving Shot is prettty good whatever the AC you're up against.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Insistent Summons, Demon mythic - can you do the 90 DC Intimidate check? How much XP would that get you?

Yes, by save-scumming. You need to go for the option with the Will saving throw. Every save can be successful on 20 or fail on 1, no matter the values; skill checks, on the other hand, are just comparing numbers. I think I had enough patience up to about 70 DC (or was it 50?) and got around 12k EXP.