Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[skaraher]

Is last Sarkorian any good or is it a cringefest ? I'm preparing to run a Lawful Good angel character, don't know if I will be going Shaman or Cleric.

 

[Yosharian]

Using Daeran high Charisma+Persuasion so he can be a Dazzling Display machine, good or bad idea?

This is a perfectly viable strat. I used it.

Mind you my Daeran was a Skald, and he didn't have that godawful curse.

 

[Desiderius]

In Vanilla Freedom of Movement cancels the Curse. Nature Second Mystery gives him a Mount to take care of moving so he can use his Standard while Staggered.

Mythic Dazzling lets you use it at different speed but Frightful Presence eventually applies AoE Shaken anyway with no skill check. Mythic Channeling is pretty good on Daeran since its CHR-based. Could combine the two.

If you make Daeran a Mythic Dazzler you could splash Thug after hitting 9th level spells to upgrade the Dazzling to Fear.

As Haplo says simply Demoralizing bosses is high value until Frightful kicks in. Use the Seashell from Brimorak House in Market Square to up his Intimidation by five.

Daeran is short on Feats (DD needs two while Demoralize doesn’t need any) so Spell Focus Evo (both + Mythic) and Spell Pen (both + Mythic) are higher priority if you want him to cast at all, and he’s a full caster with Archon’s so that probably his best use.

Prayer needs the Spell Pen, Archon’s the Focus, and other Evo control spells like Ear-Piercing Scream, Sound Burst, and Arrow of Law, and Searing Light are useful.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah I think there was boots you can put on Daeran.

 

[Desiderius]

Or just cast Freedom. TTT fixes this.

 

[frajaq]

oh yeah I know Frightful Aspect is a thing later on. However the last run I played with Daeran I noticed there were some "dead turns" with him where I couldn't do much on his turn, so thats why I asked about Dazzling

 

[Average Manatee]

Only two instances where I'd really value spending a turn to inflict shaken is:

- Vs. a specific very tough boss enemy (either you want to nerf their offense or hit them easier along with shatter defenses). Single target works here, no need for dazzling.
- As an AoE save debuffer for weird. By the time you have weird you also have frightful.

So I'm skeptical that its a good use of feats on a character that is somewhat feat starved. But I'm assuming you are investing in building up Daeran as some kind of martial character, obviously that's where most of my feats go.

 

[Yosharian]

oh yeah I know Frightful Aspect is a thing later on. However the last run I played with Daeran I noticed there were some "dead turns" with him where I couldn't do much on his turn, so thats why I asked about Dazzling

Yes and once you have FA, your Dazzler shifts roles to become the dedicated dispeller

 

[frajaq]

Only two instances where I'd really value spending a turn to inflict shaken is:

- Vs. a specific very tough boss enemy (either you want to nerf their offense or hit them easier along with shatter defenses). Single target works here, no need for dazzling.
- As an AoE save debuffer for weird. By the time you have weird you also have frightful.

So I'm skeptical that its a good use of feats on a character that is somewhat feat starved. But I'm assuming you are investing in building up Daeran as some kind of martial character, obviously that's where most of my feats go.

what makes Daeran feat starved? been mostly using him for Healing/Buffs/Restoration. I know theres some Fire Spells items but im mostly thinking of using Ember for that

 

[Average Manatee]

what makes Daeran feat starved? been mostly using him for Healing/Buffs/Restoration. I know theres some Fire Spells items but im mostly thinking of using Ember for that

Finesse, Outflank, Weapon Focus, Fencing Grace, Improved Critical, Power Attack, Lunge, Combat Reflexes use up all his available feats for me.

 

[Desiderius]

oh yeah I know Frightful Aspect is a thing later on. However the last run I played with Daeran I noticed there were some "dead turns" with him where I couldn't do much on his turn, so thats why I asked about Dazzling

Demoralize used strategically is good action econ for him into the midgame and strategically sometimes after that if you don’t have someone else handling it. Eventually he gets his caster feats and enough casts to do that whenever it matters and that’s what full progression classes are best at.

Making him decent at attacking comes at too high of a cost to his casting unless you want to do it for RP. Of course with Nature Second Mystery his Pet/Mount can do good damage attacking. Once he gets Frightful he can fight competently himself even STR-based but by then you’ve got a gazillion casts.

Reach weapon + AoOs *while* casting/intimidating is something I’ve done with Tristian/Sosiel but there aren’t any mobs in Wrath with enough HPs to need it.

 

[Desiderius]

Only two instances where I'd really value spending a turn to inflict shaken is:

- Vs. a specific very tough boss enemy (either you want to nerf their offense or hit them easier along with shatter defenses). Single target works here, no need for dazzling.
- As an AoE save debuffer for weird. By the time you have weird you also have frightful.

So I'm skeptical that its a good use of feats on a character that is somewhat feat starved. But I'm assuming you are investing in building up Daeran as some kind of martial character, obviously that's where most of my feats go.

what makes Daeran feat starved? been mostly using him for Healing/Buffs/Restoration. I know theres some Fire Spells items but im mostly thinking of using Ember for that

Because Archon’s and Prayer are both great spells and you’re looking at four feats + 2 Mythics to get the most out of them, his class gets no bonus feats, and he’s burned the feats he started with on idiot-proofing himself (and/or setting himself up to be the game’s best Channeler with Mythic Channeling if you like damage racing/owning Undead).

As a spontaneous caster he has enough casts for buffs and offensive casting and the caster Feats unlock good Sonic/Divine spells like Ear-Piercing, Sound Burst, Arrow of Law, Searing Light, Order’s Wrath, Holy Smite, Arbitrament, and eventually just Hellfire/Stormbolts.

There’s a Divine-only Maximize Rod in Drezen Temple to get the most damage out of those but their main use is to control enemy casters either by attacking Fortitude with Stuns or doing enough damage in RTwP to break Concentration.

Wrath/Smite are AoE damage + debuff/daze that come with Selectivity based on Alignment of team, as does Arbitrament. Divine/Sonic damage gets around Resists/Immunities but you can also take Waves Second Mystery along with Ascendant Cold to do Cold nuking. There’s a relic rod to turn Stormbolts damage into maximized Unholy if you want, and/or Daeran can supplement his spells with the various items that add spells for spontaneous casters.

 

[Haplo]

Only two instances where I'd really value spending a turn to inflict shaken is:

- Vs. a specific very tough boss enemy (either you want to nerf their offense or hit them easier along with shatter defenses). Single target works here, no need for dazzling.
- As an AoE save debuffer for weird. By the time you have weird you also have frightful.

So I'm skeptical that its a good use of feats on a character that is somewhat feat starved. But I'm assuming you are investing in building up Daeran as some kind of martial character, obviously that's where most of my feats go.

Actually I use Demoralize on Daeran A LOT early game. He does it almost every round.

My favorite tactics for higher difficulties is: Daeran Demoralizes -> Camelia Hexes to debuff Saving Throws with Evil Eye -> Ember Hexes with Slumber -> Coup de Grace with a x3 weapon.

Can use it trough most of Act 2 too. Although I tend to switch to Sosiel when he becomes available.

 

[Saravan]

This game’s combat is so fucking overrated.

 

[Nikanuur]

This game’s combat is so fucking overrated.

Hmm, I actually believe the combat, builds and some groundbreaking moments mostly summ up the positives of this game. So it begs a question: what is a good combat according to you? In which game you saw it?

 

[Saravan]

This game’s combat is so fucking overrated.

Hmm, I actually believe the combat, builds and some groundbreaking moments mostly summ up the positives of this game. So it begs a question: what is a good combat according to you? In which game you saw it?

- Unique items drop like candy.
- Encounter spam. Even too much for RtwP design.
- Positioning don’t really matter beyond basic tactics.
- Barely any use of terrain or environment.
- Prebuff spam.
- Most choices to solve encounters are made before combat begins rather than during.
- Stat bloat difficulty.
- Faux class/subclass diversity (e.g. slayer).
- Gay companions.

Wish there was a modern ToEE. Rogue Trader is designed with TB in mind so that’s positive at least.

Edit: btw, I didn’t post in this thread, the gay mods moved the post.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

This game’s combat is so fucking overrated.

1000 builds for one flavour chaotic combat.

 

[Desiderius]

This game’s combat is so fucking overrated.

Hmm, I actually believe the combat, builds and some groundbreaking moments mostly summ up the positives of this game. So it begs a question: what is a good combat according to you? In which game you saw it?

- Unique items drop like candy.
- Encounter spam. Even too much for RtwP design.
- Positioning don’t really matter beyond basic tactics.
- Barely any use of terrain or environment.
- Prebuff spam.
- Most choices to solve encounters are made before combat begins rather than during.
- Stat bloat difficulty.
- Faux class/subclass diversity (e.g. slayer).
- Gay companions.

Wish there was a modern ToEE. Rogue Trader is designed with TB in mind so that’s positive at least.

Edit: btw, I didn’t post in this thread, the gay mods moved the post.

So many ways to say you suck at it.

Maybe at your age this isn’t the game for you.

 

[Desiderius]

This game’s combat is so fucking overrated.

1000 builds for one flavour chaotic combat.

If it’s chaotic you’re doing it (very) wrong.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

This game’s combat is so fucking overrated.

1000 builds for one flavour chaotic combat.

If it’s chaotic you’re doing it (very) wrong.

Pathfinder mechanic, just like its source, is based on dice throws. With a lot of options it must generate chaos, especially in real time (like in BG1 and 2).

 

[Desiderius]

This game’s combat is so fucking overrated.

1000 builds for one flavour chaotic combat.

If it’s chaotic you’re doing it (very) wrong.

Pathfinder mechanic, just like its source, is based on dice throws. With a lot of options it must generate chaos, especially in real time (like in BG1 and 2).

Only if you suck.

 

[Haplo]

- Unique items drop like candy.

I wish....

Not many truely unique items in the game.
And the Devs actually nerfed one of the very few unique weapons.

 

[Saravan]

This game’s combat is so fucking overrated.

Hmm, I actually believe the combat, builds and some groundbreaking moments mostly summ up the positives of this game. So it begs a question: what is a good combat according to you? In which game you saw it?

- Unique items drop like candy.
- Encounter spam. Even too much for RtwP design.
- Positioning don’t really matter beyond basic tactics.
- Barely any use of terrain or environment.
- Prebuff spam.
- Most choices to solve encounters are made before combat begins rather than during.
- Stat bloat difficulty.
- Faux class/subclass diversity (e.g. slayer).
- Gay companions.

Wish there was a modern ToEE. Rogue Trader is designed with TB in mind so that’s positive at least.

Edit: btw, I didn’t post in this thread, the gay mods moved the post.

So many ways to say you suck at it.

Maybe at your age this isn’t the game for you.

This is the exact argument you made almost 2 years ago and it’s still just as retarded. What’s wrong with the combat has nothing to do with difficulty.

Anyways I didn’t post in this thread to begin with it, apologies for disturbing your jerk off session with Haplo.

 

[Desiderius]

This game’s combat is so fucking overrated.

Hmm, I actually believe the combat, builds and some groundbreaking moments mostly summ up the positives of this game. So it begs a question: what is a good combat according to you? In which game you saw it?

- Unique items drop like candy.
- Encounter spam. Even too much for RtwP design.
- Positioning don’t really matter beyond basic tactics.
- Barely any use of terrain or environment.
- Prebuff spam.
- Most choices to solve encounters are made before combat begins rather than during.
- Stat bloat difficulty.
- Faux class/subclass diversity (e.g. slayer).
- Gay companions.

Wish there was a modern ToEE. Rogue Trader is designed with TB in mind so that’s positive at least.

Edit: btw, I didn’t post in this thread, the gay mods moved the post.

So many ways to say you suck at it.

Maybe at your age this isn’t the game for you.

This is the exact argument you made almost 2 years ago and it’s still just as retarded. What’s wrong with the combat has nothing to do with difficulty.

Anyways I didn’t post in this thread to begin with it, apologies for disturbing your jerk off session with Haplo.

And you’re still wrong as anyone who has mastered the game knows. Don’t presume to pass judgment on a game you haven’t bothered to learn how to play.

This isn’t a journo site.

 

[Desiderius]

This game’s combat is so fucking overrated.

Hmm, I actually believe the combat, builds and some groundbreaking moments mostly summ up the positives of this game. So it begs a question: what is a good combat according to you? In which game you saw it?

- Unique items drop like candy.
- Encounter spam. Even too much for RtwP design.
- Positioning don’t really matter beyond basic tactics.
- Barely any use of terrain or environment.
- Prebuff spam.
- Most choices to solve encounters are made before combat begins rather than during.
- Stat bloat difficulty.
- Faux class/subclass diversity (e.g. slayer).
- Gay companions.

Wish there was a modern ToEE. Rogue Trader is designed with TB in mind so that’s positive at least.

Edit: btw, I didn’t post in this thread, the gay mods moved the post.

So many ways to say you suck at it.

Maybe at your age this isn’t the game for you.

This is the exact argument you made almost 2 years ago and it’s still just as retarded. What’s wrong with the combat has nothing to do with difficulty.

Anyways I didn’t post in this thread to begin with it, apologies for disturbing your jerk off session with Haplo.

- unique items are gated behind the (knee-jerk) hated Crusade management and still aren’t nearly as unique as, say, Deadfire

- the game gets too long, but at the intended level of difficulty non-boss encounters are intended to be painlessly managed with sufficient pre-planning as to relative resource use. If you burn your resources on pretty pictures of big crits instead of resilience and end up with re-loaditis that’s on you

- positioning and making use of the abilities you have to take advantage of it is a huge part of getting to where those fights are a breeze rather than a slog. You have the same abilities Shadow Votaries have to gain that advantage. Use them!

- there are classes that make extensive use of terrain. Have you played Forester? Maybe if you were making use of Favored Terrain bonuses on the companion that comes with them you wouldn’t suck so much at positioning.

Of course like typical Russians the implementation doesn’t match the design so Favored Terrain bonuses don’t progress as they should so you may have a point here.

- Soyerism. Managing/learning buffs is fun. There are easy mods to automate the ones you want to use regularly, but the skill is in figuring out which ones you need when and how valuable those slots are for other things, as has always been the case for this type of game. If you fall for the armor/shields/martials suck meme that could be your problem. Using the item slots/abilities you have = less need for buffs.

- you solve them during by not sucking at killing shit that needs killed

- those splatbooks aren’t filled with tables of poetry. Quantification is baked into the genre. Additional abilities and number of enemies is also adjustable and can change the nature of the fights.

Players already neglect the abilities they have that work on other dimensions than the common stats, so it’s natural for devs to focus on those that players pay attention to for difficulty purposes to avoid the nerf mobs.

Natural but wrong. Bloat is an accurate but insufficient description for employing a wider scale to make room for the greater granularity that progressive difficulty levels require. As abilities are mastered the player’s own bonuses progress on that scale. MMO-ification of that process into one-dimensionality isn’t just a dev-side problem.

- there is nothing faux about it. Again, if you were using the positioning resources the game gives you then you’d be complaining a lot less about encounter spam and have an appreciation for what Slayer uniquely brings to the table. You’re not using half the class. If you’ve induced this general complaint it’s likely you are oblivious to most of them.

Name a class/archetype and I’ll give you a rundown of the unique niche they were designed to fill and in almost all cases manage to do so with the replayability due to different ways combat (and not just combat) plays out that they bring to the table.

- tge ghey also not just dev-side issue