Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[ArchAngel]

Also now that Codex likes what the cool kids like do we need to find another Codex like site that hates Pathfinder games :D

 

[The_Mask]

Lol Farming Simulator 22 is one of the best selling game.. WTF?!

Clearly becoming a king or other mythical creatures are not what people really want. It's the simple life. The life of a simple farmer, is what the people trully desire!

Make it happen Owlcat. And this time, the bugs will actually make sense!

 

[mediocrepoet]

Also now that Codex likes what the cool kids like do we need to find another Codex like site that hates Pathfinder games :D

No. Fortunately for you, that site is also the Codex.

 

[ArchAngel]

Also now that Codex likes what the cool kids like do we need to find another Codex like site that hates Pathfinder games :D

No. Fortunately for you, that site is also the Codex.

We need to go back to the old days of Everything is SHIT! (except FO1 and PST)
I guess all the old people got jabbed and died from heart attacks and only young unvaxxed Purebloods are left.

 

[ga♥]

Everything is still shit, this and Kingmaker are pretty much the only exception to the rule, sadly.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Azata is so much better than Demon gameplay wise.

All Demon's spell are worthless, you have limited Rage and pretty good teleport but compared to Azata? Immunity to almost everything, AOE healing , Bards songs (kinda), Really good summons, insane Spell penetration , Threats etc. And Aivu is BUSTED after Mythic rank 6. That dispell and breath are crazy good.

Owlcat really gave Azata more love. Storywise, it's pretty similar but i enjoyed how i had to gain respect and do a freaking riot as Azata but overall Demon has more going for it.

Overall, i think i had more fun with Azata Kineticist than Eldritch Scion Demon.

Someone has a cool build for Angel ? And is Trickester any good?

 

[Delterius]

Also now that Codex likes what the cool kids like do we need to find another Codex like site that hates Pathfinder games :D

the only unusual thing is that the codex enjoyed the game when it came out

the law of amn states: thou shalt hate all releases, then thou shalt count to years five or six, and then thou shalt re-consider them True and Good and a Bastion of Civilization forevermore

 

[Yosharian]

I have a martial Trickster-Legend build

 

[Humbaba]

Currently running a second playthrough with Halfling Deliverer with Longspear focus which I plan to go Angel/Legend with and so far the little bastard is doing loads of damage hiding behind Seelah and poking people in the liver. Don't have a pre-planned build though or anything.

 

[Haplo]

I have an Angel charger build, if interested.
Main advantage is possibility to charge-pounce every round with swift action Travel Domain Dimension Hop.
But also gets plenty bonus damage from Abolish Guile, Sunmarked, Divine Power, Eaglesoul and so on.

 

[Delterius]

And is Trickester any good?

only thing trickster doesn't do particularly well is DC casting. its golden in every other way.

 

[gurugeorge]

Also now that Codex likes what the cool kids like do we need to find another Codex like site that hates Pathfinder games :D

I think you have to tryhard to nitpick the game on relative trivialities to dislike it. None of the classics are perfect, and this isn't perfect, but setting that and the occasional bugginess aside (since we can be reasonably confident, by track record, that it will be sorted), this game, like PF:K is mostly on a par with the Black Isle/BioWare/Troika, etc., classics, pretty obviously.

The woke stuff is the only plook on its nose, but you can more or less not stare (e.g. in my case, by blithely ignoring things like the faggoty overtures my character could have made to Sosiel), and as I've said many times, even there, as with PF:K, it's subtler than it looks at first glance, and isn't concerned with pushing a faggots-and-stronk-womyn über alles message (as modern Western stuff so tiresomely is) so much as it's a couple of decades behind in the, "let's just be nice to people and inclusive of the Other" narrative of the 80s and 90s, and is more concerned with the characters as characters (some of whom just happen to be faggots, degenerates and perverts). It's simply not bad enough to spoil one's enjoyment of the occasionally challenging gameplay, the well-developed C&C, the juicy build porn and the sense of immersion in a large-scale virtual world.

 

[ArchAngel]

And is Trickester any good?

only thing trickster doesn't do particularly well is DC casting. its golden in every other way.

I am doing Trickster Ranger/Fighter with 2 scimitars and a Puma companion until I can get to end of Ac4 and unlock Legend. I am not yet far into the Trickster levels (only Mythic lvl 2) but from what I googled, compared to most other Mythics, Trickster seems more like a support character. Maybe his full power gets unlocked by Mythic 8 or something (Act 5) when it does not matter much as you are in last 10% of the game. Trickster seems like a good pick for a support/skill monkey character.

For my pre Legend run I plan to use his Persuasion tricks to get free Intimidate on everyone (this does not work any many enemies that are immune to fear), Perception gives you ability to see though illusions and shit and Acrobatics seems interesting if you plan to move a lot but I am two weapon fighting. At least you can get a movespeed boost from it. Other than that, Knowledge (World) seems a bit useful and Knowledge (arcana) if you can be the one identifying stuff which means you need to not level up that skill with anyone else.

If you are not doing a skill monkey character you will lose out on many of the Mythic Trick abilities as they check your skill vs enemy abilities/attacks to give you the bonuses. Seems like a Mythic path made specifically for Bards and Rogues.

 

[Humbaba]

I think you have to tryhard to nitpick the game on relative trivialities to dislike it. None of the classics are perfect, and this isn't perfect, but setting that and the occasional bugginess aside (since we can be reasonably confident, by track record, that it will be sorted), this game, like PF:K is mostly on a par with the Black Isle/BioWare/Troika, etc., classics, pretty obviously.

The woke stuff is the only plook on its nose, but you can more or less not stare (e.g. in my case, by blithely ignoring things like the faggoty overtures my character could have made to Sosiel), and as I've said many times, even there, as with PF:K, it's subtler than it looks at first glance, and isn't concerned with pushing a faggots-and-stronk-womyn über alles message (as modern Western stuff so tiresomely is) so much as it's a couple of decades behind in the, "let's just be nice to people and inclusive of the Other" narrative of the 80s and 90s, and is more concerned with the characters as characters (some of whom just happen to be faggots, degenerates and perverts). It's simply not bad enough to spoil one's enjoyment of the occasionally challenging gameplay, the well-developed C&C, the juicy build porn and the sense of immersion in a large-scale virtual world.

This, plus the wokeness is very superficial and the degeneracy is often justified well enough. Like it makes complete sense for Daeran to be a gross bisexual because being a hedonistic decadent fuck is his character. Wenduag swinging both ways coupled with her power fetish is also completely in character seeing as she is a literal troglodyte who would have a weird concept of sexuality.

 

[ga♥]

You don't need to be the one identifying items for knowledge arcana, anyone can.

 

[Haplo]

Charging Angel build.

The build idea is to take advantage of the awesome Angel defensive and offensive buffs, as well as the busted Sword of Heavens Abolish Guile upgrade alongside Spirited Charge doubling all your damage on a Charge - and Mythic Charge + Boots of Stampede providing even more damage.
We use Travel Domain with Domain Zealot to be able to Swift teleport trough the battlefield to find optimal positions for charging - even every round, when so desired.

Race: Kitsune, obviously.

Stats:
Strenght: 15 + 5
Dexterity: 12
Constitution: 12
Intelligence: 16 (I like skill points, YMMV)
Wisdom: 15
Charisma: 7

Background: Acolyte.

Level Progression:
Level 1: Cleric (Erastil) Power Attack
Level 2: Cleric
Level 3: Cleric Exotic Proficiency: Fauchard
Level 4: Cleric [Animal Companion]
Level 5: Monk – Sohei Boon Companion, Spirited Charge (!)
Level 6: Monk – Sohei Indomitable Mount, [Evasion]
Level 7: Gendarme (Cockatrice) Outflank, Weapon Focus: Fauchard
Level 8: Cleric
Level 9: Gendarme Shatter Defenses, [Dazzling Display]
Level 10: Cleric
Level 11: Cleric Improved Critical: Fauchard
Level 12: Cleric
Level 13: Gendarme Vulpine Pounce (!), Cleave, [Cavalier's Charge]
Level 14: Monk – Sohei
Level 15: Monk – Sohei Metamagic: Extend
Level 16: Monk – Sohei
Level 17: Monk – Sohei Skill Focus: World/Arcana, Combat Reflexes / Imp. Initiative
Level 18: Loremaster Secret: Great Cleaving Finish (could also pick some spell.... but not sure which).
Level 19: Whatever (but preferably a pet class - Mad Dog could be good if no longer Lawfull alignment - I went with more Cleric) Cleaving Finish
Level 20: Whatever

Raise Mobility for the pets defenses via Indomitable Mount and Athletics for Charge damage proc with Boots of Stampede. Plus skillchecks.

Mythic abilities:
1 Mythic Charge (!)
2 Improved Critical Mythic / Mythic Power Attack
3 Impossible Domain: Travel (!)
4 Domain Zealot (!); Abolish Guile SoH upgrade (!)
5 Enduring Spells; Piercing Rays Halo upgrade
6 Improved Critical Mythic / Mythic Power Attack; Everlasting Flame SoH upgrade
7 Greater Enduring Spells; Solar Winds Halo upgrade
8 Mythical Beast/Last Stand/Mythic Improved Initiative/Leading Strikes/Ever Ready; I took Overwhelming Flames SoH upgrade, though I guess Speed of Light is cool also
9 Mythical Beast/Last Stand/Leading Strikes/Ever Ready; Unfailing Beacon Halo upgrade



Weapon: Fauchard. I think Finnean is the best option (but not vs undead or constructs) - as it will let you use Power Attack without worrying about accuracy loss. Mighty Blow of Good is decent.

Other notable equipment: Boots of Stampede (for another proc on Charge - alongside Mythic Charge). Hammer of the Masterpiece. Half of the Pair amulets. Shy Lily's Helmet. Clemency of Shadows Ring, Ring of Imminent Demise. Fencer's Gift gloves. Timely Assistance belt.

Animal Companion: I like leopard a lot. Thank you for the recommendation, Desiderius
Note that as a Kitsune, you need Reduce Person to ride it (possible at level 5).
The idea is to use Frightful Aspect buff (or possibly Legendary Proportions, if for some reason you don't need the Shaken effect) and then cast Reduce Person, which will let you keep most of the positive effects, but will reduce the size of your model (and your weapon too). Also comes with a slight Str debuff, but what can you do.
The smaller your companion is, the less of a nuisance on the front line. And more importantly, the closer to the enemy it will be able to activate a Charge and the less it will be bodyblocked or stuck in geometry. And his early high AC is just great. Later he doesn't need Barding, so has more feat flexibility too.

If you find the need to use Reduce Person a nuisance, go with another, preferably somewhat tanky and not too bulky, companion.

Here are the proposed feats for leopard:
1. Weapon Finesse
2. Fury's Fall
3. Dodge
4. Outflank
5. Improved Unarmed
6. Crane Style
7. Crane Wing
8. Weapon Focus
9. Dazzling Display
10. Shatter Defences

Bully to support the free Trips on with Fury's Fall. It will also need 3 Int for Ouflank and Improved Unarmed Style for Crane Style, so either add 1 point to Int ASAP or have it wear an Int tiara (Bookworm's Headband is nice for the Compulsion immunity).

A nice idea, particularly if you have more animal companions in your party, is to either have an Oracle with Nature Mystery and Friend to Animals Revelation - or dip 1 level oracle on a high Charisma character (like Ember, maybe Seelah) for that Revelation. It will greatly boost the saving throws of your pets.

Note: the pics below mostly come from earlier revisions of the build.

Spoiler

Edit:
6.06.2022: Updated the build to current game version. Lost some AB and a lot of critting power (without Loremaster able to select Trickster feats, greataxe spec with Mutation Warrior), but gained reach with fauchards, significant damage from Mythic Power Attack, Improved Cleaving Finish. Also moved away from horse to smaller pets, with leopard being my favorite.

 

[ArchAngel]

You don't need to be the one identifying items for knowledge arcana, anyone can.

That is not what the description says, are you sure? So you don't actually need to put any points into Knowledge Arcana?

 

[ArchAngel]

So, Charging Angel, if interested:
Race: Kitsune, obviously.

Level Progression:
Level 1: Monk – Sohei (Erastil): Combat Expertise, Spirited Charge
Level 2: Gendarme (Cockatrice): Weapon Focus
Level 3: Cleric: Boon Companion
Level 4: Cleric
Level 5: Cleric: Outflank
Level 6: Gendarme: Dazzling Display
Level 7: Cleric: Shatter Defenses
Level 8: Cleric
Level 9: Cleric: Trip
Level 10: Cleric
Level 11: Cleric: Improved Critical
Level 12: Mutation Warrior: Pummeling Style
Level 13: Mutation Warrior: Vulpine Pounce, Pummeling Bully
Level 14: Mutation Warrior
Level 15: Mutation Warrior: Metamagic: Extend, Greater Trip
Level 16: Mutation Warrior
Level 17: Gendarme Skill Focus: World OR Arcana, Weapon Specialization
Level 18: Loremaster Rogue Secret: Opportunist OR Combat Secret: Great Cleaving Finish
Level 19: Monk - Sohei: Fury's Fall, Indomitable Mount
Level 20: Monk - Sohei

Mythic abilities:
1. Mythic Charge
2. Impossible Domain: Travel
3. Domain Zealot
4. Improved Critical Mythic + Abolish X.. Guile?
5. Enduring Spells
6. Greater Enduring Spells + Everlasting Flame
7. Ever Ready
8. Mythic Weapon Spec/Mythic Trip
9. Mythical Beast/Last Stand/Leading Strikes
10. Mythic Weapon Spec/Mythic Trip

Weapon: Big, bad two-hander. My recommendations are greataxes or falchions.

Make sure to pick Outflank on your horse at level 7.

This looks like a lot of lost BAB. Also so many classes that don't level up your companion... No power attack from what I can see which is the biggest damage bonus with a two handed build (with Mythic Power Attack). Especially if you got a high crit weapon where power attack damage gets multiplied.
And why Kitsune? Its bonuses are bad for warrior types. Also animals cannot pick up Outflank unless you raise their Intelligence to 3. So mention that in your guide.

 

[Delterius]

Trickster seems more like a support character.

it was probably intended as such at one point in time. Trickster seems to have once been designed as the 'bag of tricks' mythic with a great deal of focus put on having lots of nifty perks you can choose from. but it's not like tricksters can max every skill and benefit from most tricks. opportunity cost is the issue. the way mythic progression was done your choice of mythic trick at rank 4 is what defines your experience. the other improved tricks and the greater tricks both come online too late. the final greater trick is a non entity. there's only one fight left when that comes into play.

as such one mythic trick stands out from the rest: perception 2. being able to crit so often is already great. being able to make your entire party crit half of the time is insane. increasing the crit multiplier of both weapons and ranged touch attack spells is all you need to one shot everything and anything in this game in a single round. cue the crowning achievement of being able to roll all 20s for 6 rounds 3 times per day via the Trick Fate spell and you couldn't ask for more personal power. worse: the fact that perception 2 runs on feats means you want to grab it as early as possible. there's just no other option to be had at mythic rank 4 unless you're doing a very specific mobility 2 build or want to do something different. perception 2 is also the only trickster power that synergizes with spellcasting.

to make matters worse some of the tricks are just not as useful as they sound. stealth's invisibility is breached by true sight. persuasion's paralysis and coup de grace has too low of a DC to matter over time. world 3's feat requirement bypass doesn't actually let you poach class abilities like so many people like to think and its much less useful in your main character than it is for party members. umd 2's infinite wands are severely limited because wands are shit for spell penetration so all you can do is cast buffs with them. and so on.

of course you can do niche things as well. trickery trick 2 is the best dispel in the game. religion 2 and 3 can give you cleric powers or a shitton of extra domains. you can be a kineticist that is immune to all elemental damage. or have an animal companion, community's guarded hearth, glory's touch of broken, and liberation's freedom of movement aura on a sorcerer. but that is what you're going for overall. not mere portions of your abilities. not powers in your repertoire.

at the end of the day trickster is the sword saint, greater vital strike and ray spammer mythic for maximum single target damage. you can probably deal 4k+ damage a round with it.

 

[ArchAngel]

Trickster seems more like a support character.

it was probably intended as such at one point in time. Trickster seems to have once been designed as the 'bag of tricks' mythic with a great deal of focus put on having lots of nifty perks you can choose from. but it's not like tricksters can max every skill and benefit from most tricks. opportunity cost is the issue. the way mythic progression was done your choice of mythic trick at rank 4 is what defines your experience. the other improved tricks and the greater tricks both come online too late. the final greater trick is a non entity. there's only one fight left when that comes into play.

as such one mythic trick stands out from the rest: perception 2. being able to crit so often is already great. being able to make your entire party crit half of the time is insane. increasing the crit multiplier of both weapons and ranged touch attack spells is all you need to one shot everything and anything in this game in a single round. cue the crowning achievement of being able to roll all 20s for 6 rounds 3 times per day via the Trick Fate spell and you couldn't ask for more personal power. worse: the fact that perception 2 runs on feats means you want to grab it as early as possible. there's just no other option to be had at mythic rank 4 unless you're doing a very specific mobility 2 build or want to do something different. perception 2 is also the only trickster power that synergizes with spellcasting.

to make matters worse some of the tricks are just not as useful as they sound. stealth's invisibility is breached by true sight. persuasion's paralysis and coup de grace has too low of a DC to matter over time. world 3's feat requirement bypass doesn't actually let you poach class abilities like so many people like to think and its much less useful in your main character than it is for party members. umd 2's infinite wands are severely limited because wands are shit for spell penetration so all you can do is cast buffs with them. and so on.

of course you can do niche things as well. trickery trick 2 is the best dispel in the game. religion 2 and 3 can give you cleric powers or a shitton of extra domains. you can be a kineticist that is immune to all elemental damage. or have an animal companion, community's guarded hearth, glory's touch of broken, and liberation's freedom of movement aura on a sorcerer. but that is what you're going for overall. not mere portions of your abilities. not powers in your repertoire.

at the end of the day trickster is the sword saint, greater vital strike and ray spammer mythic for maximum single target damage. you can probably deal 4k+ damage a round with it.

So rank 2 Perception gives you access to those Improved Improved Critical feats.. I was wondering how you get those. I guess you need to pick those with your regular feats and most characters are already feat starved. Maybe Knowledge (world) rank 2 is better, as it should be a free boost and game tends to give you 1 on d20 pretty often. This also basically give everyone another 5% crit chance, hit chance and the rest.
And Knowledge Arcane rank 2 will give you better weapons/items early in the game which is not bad for time you get rank 4 mythic.

 

[Delterius]

Maybe Knowledge (world) rank 2 is better

its not better because the two tricks strictly add to each other and you want perception 2 as early as possible. if you want to deal lots of damage, you want perception 2. plus perception 2 comes with completely normal spell and greater crit multipliers.

 

[Haplo]

So, Charging Angel, if interested:
Race: Kitsune, obviously.

Level Progression:
Level 1: Monk – Sohei (Erastil): Combat Expertise, Spirited Charge
Level 2: Gendarme (Cockatrice): Weapon Focus
Level 3: Cleric: Boon Companion
Level 4: Cleric
Level 5: Cleric: Outflank
Level 6: Gendarme: Dazzling Display
Level 7: Cleric: Shatter Defenses
Level 8: Cleric
Level 9: Cleric: Trip
Level 10: Cleric
Level 11: Cleric: Improved Critical
Level 12: Mutation Warrior: Pummeling Style
Level 13: Mutation Warrior: Vulpine Pounce, Pummeling Bully
Level 14: Mutation Warrior
Level 15: Mutation Warrior: Metamagic: Extend, Greater Trip
Level 16: Mutation Warrior
Level 17: Gendarme Skill Focus: World OR Arcana, Weapon Specialization
Level 18: Loremaster Rogue Secret: Opportunist OR Combat Secret: Great Cleaving Finish
Level 19: Monk - Sohei: Fury's Fall, Indomitable Mount
Level 20: Monk - Sohei

Mythic abilities:
1. Mythic Charge
2. Impossible Domain: Travel
3. Domain Zealot
4. Improved Critical Mythic + Abolish X.. Guile?
5. Enduring Spells
6. Greater Enduring Spells + Everlasting Flame
7. Ever Ready
8. Mythic Weapon Spec/Mythic Trip
9. Mythical Beast/Last Stand/Leading Strikes
10. Mythic Weapon Spec/Mythic Trip

Weapon: Big, bad two-hander. My recommendations are greataxes or falchions.

Make sure to pick Outflank on your horse at level 7.

This looks like a lot of lost BAB. Also so many classes that don't level up your companion... No power attack from what I can see which is the biggest damage bonus with a two handed build (with Mythic Power Attack). Especially if you got a high crit weapon where power attack damage gets multiplied.
And why Kitsune? Its bonuses are bad for warrior types. Also animals cannot pick up Outflank unless you raise their Intelligence to 3. So mention that in your guide.

Thank you for your comments.

The build does loose 3 BAB. Could reduce it to 2 without Loremaster (and have a level 20 mount as well), but IMO the special feats Loremaster can give you (even Trickster unique feats - maybe a bug!) are neat and likely worth it. Also 1 more caster level sooner means earlier access to some OP spells.
It compensates a little with Weapon Training with Gloves (+3), extra 1-2 FullBAB attacks (Sohei Flurry + possibly Ki extra attack), bonus Full BAB AoO attacks on most enemies from Trip (honestly I don't remember a lot of enemies that wouldn't be tripped so far - but I do use Brown Fur Transmuter buff support - including Gorilla Aspect). And of course with cleric/angel buffs. Plenty of Divine Powers + Divine Favors, Freightening Aspects, some Eaglesouls eventually or maybe also Avenger's Blessings. Also Guarded Hearth when really needed.

Cleric with Animal Domain does level the AC, but theoretically with stunted progression. However with Boon Companion the build should still achieve a level 19 mount (20 if no Loremaster but another mount class). Animal companion levelling is wonky. My character currently is level 15, with 8 levels in cleric and 4 in Mutation Warrior and his horse is also level 15.

Power Attack was not taken intentionally. I prefer to hit more the enemies that pose a challenge, rather then make fewer bigger hits. I find that particularly further iterative attacks don't have a lot of AB advantage. Also using Power Attack would nerf the CMB for Trip attempts.

Kitsune was taken for Vulpine Pounce, obviously. Having 7-9 Spirited Charge attacks (with 7-8 Mythic Charge triggers) rocks! Theoretically can be emulated with a Skald, but I prefer the freedom of having pounce always active and not needing to be in song range. Also to open combat with a charge/attack flat-footed enemies. Plus I use Dirge of Doom until Freightening Aspect comes online (which is late).

I amended the Int info for Outflank on AC.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Trickster seems more like a support character.

At the end of the day trickster is the sword saint, greater vital strike and ray spammer mythic for maximum single target damage. you can probably deal 4k+ damage a round with it.

I am of this conclusion as well. I wouldn't say they are a bad choice for pure caster though. Completely Normal Spell and Favorite Metamagic have some outstanding combinations. A trickster can make a spell Persistent and Selective and have it still hold the same spell slot. That and a second full wizard book (magic device 3), coupled with Abundant spells will give the player 4x the spell slot PLUS the trickster book. Using Completely Normal Spell, that will give an endgame character like 32 level 9 spell slots not counting INT bonuses. Thats crazy!

 

[Delterius]

Trickster seems more like a support character.

At the end of the day trickster is the sword saint, greater vital strike and ray spammer mythic for maximum single target damage. you can probably deal 4k+ damage a round with it.

I am of this conclusion as well. I wouldn't say they are a bad choice for pure caster though. Completely Normal Spell and Favorite Metamagic have some outstanding combinations. A trickster can make a spell Persistent and Selective and have it still hold the same spell slot. That and a second full wizard book (magic device 3), coupled with Abundant spells will give the player 4x the spell slot PLUS the trickster book. Using Completely Normal Spell, that will give an endgame character like 32 level 9 spell slots not counting INT bonuses. Thats crazy!

Sure, it's just that you're better off filling those slots with Maxi-Bols-Powered Hellfire Rays and such rather than going for something like a Phantasmal Killer build. Trickster used to be actually terrible for spellcasters, but that was before CNS was even a thing, or improved critical rays made sense.

I kinda wish Perception 2's feats weren't a trick. Or that mythic progression was a bit faster. That way I'd consider picking something like a Trickery Dispel rather than going for the earliest possible Perception 2 trick.