KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Releasing in 3 months... lol.

Pretty nothing is finalized and many featured mechanics are missing so, technically speaking, this is still an Alpha and, in fact, they never claimed to have reached the Beta milestone. To really finish the game, as presented during FIG campaign (apart, sadly, the ugly artistic turndown), they still need at least a whole year from now.

Fortunately Epic provides that.

 

[Togukawa]

Pretty nothing is finalized and many featured mechanics are missing so, technically speaking, this is still an Alpha and, in fact, they never claimed to have reached the Beta milestone. To really finish the game, as presented during FIG campaign (apart, sadly, the ugly artistic turndown), they still need at least a whole year from now.

Fortunately Epic provides that.

Hah. Now all they need is talent.

 

[Shog-goth]

Fortunately Epic provides that.

I don't think it's luck. Snapshot deliberately accepted the deal because, otherwise, they know they'd be screwed with this incomplete mess of a game and no more time/money left.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

has this bombed yet?

 

[lightbane]

blood flies everywhere as bullet after bullet hits without any reaction, and then when the shooting stops, the enemy flinches.

Ah, that funny and embarrassing bug from the original NU-XCOM that was quickly fixed with mods and later patches IIRC, and then fixed completely for Nucom2.
However, PP failed to learn that, as expected.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

eventually with mods like longwar type stuff etc this will be a very nice game IMO, probably at least a year or more away though. Hopefully someone will mod back in the more apocalyptic looking armor and art style into phoenix point. The futuristic motorcycle rider style guys with little pads everywhere look awful. The first time I saw a link to it I thought it was a joke and somebody had photo-shopped a bunch of extra pads all over to make it look ridiculous. I can't believe they actually chose that style on purpose.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

The fact that Unstable Voltage is still a belligerent little shit towards backers perfectly encapsulates the dev's complete disregard for the backers who gave them an advance loan. I can't believe after all these delays, art changes, mechanical simplification and managerial incompetence this arsehole still has the gall to treat backers like annoying hanger ons.

 

[Infinitron]

In this video, we explore some of the key differences in mechanics between XCOM and Phoenix Point. This episode - Taking Shots, the Realistic Ballistics System.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

In this video, we explore some of the key differences in mechanics between XCOM and Phoenix Point

One of them is worth buying?

 

[Alienman]

In this video, we explore some of the key differences in mechanics between XCOM and Phoenix Point. This episode - Taking Shots, the Realistic Ballistics System.

So hitting is based on dice rolls, either you miss or hit, no %. How does stats work then? Do you get more favorable rolls or something when you soldier improves? Does the circle get smaller?

 

[_Arhaeus_]

I don't want to flatter ourselves, but our death animations look way better than those of Phoenixpoint. And after all the money they injected in the project.

 

[Agame]

has this bombed yet?

I just thank god it looks identical in every way to Nu-XCOM, otherwise I am sure no one would play it. Imagine trying to make a game that succeeds on its on merits?

 

[passerby]

So hitting is based on dice rolls, either you miss or hit, no %. How does stats work then? Do you get more favorable rolls or something when you soldier improves?

No, you circlejerking idiot without comprehension skill. I'm surprised they didn't dumb it down yet, but it still works as advertised from the beginning.

Random bullet spread is based on weapon and character stats. Circle radius represents the spread and you can freely aim from the first person perspective and UI will highlight the body part aimed at. Each bullet is traced until it hits something and damage is localised per body part.
It's as realistic as you can get and the UI for all this is surprisingly clear and works smooth. Even graphics from the playable distance looks decent. I'd love JA game with shooting like this, not crazy about aliens, but I'm mildly interested in the game again.

Does the circle get smaller?

Yes.

 

[Alienman]

I have not seen the circle change in anyway from the gameplay I have watched. Big gun, big circle etc. And the game is already dumbed down to suit the peanut brain sized Epic cock slurpers like yourself.

Edit:

I see you change your message to put yourself in better light. Common practice here on this thread.
Not to self, quote everyone.

 

[passerby]

I see you change your message to put yourself in better light. Common practice here on this thread.
Not to self, quote everyone.

I've fixed some typos/grammar and tamed down edginess by changing "retard" to "idiot" and singled out last question from your quote to answer Yes. Such a change to the message.
I've also done these expansive edits while you were writing your post, my last edit timestamp is before your response.

 

[Grotesque]

No, you circlejerking idiot without comprehension skill.

Slow the fuck down you cretin!
You can convey information without sounding like a frustrated unfucked housewife.

EDIT: I've toned down the edginess by replacing imbecile with cretin.
What a difference!?

 

[passerby]

No, you circlejerking idiot without comprehension skill.

Slow the fuck down you cretin!
You can convey information without sounding like a frustrated unfucked housewife.

Agree, it was unnecessary, this is why I've started to edit the message.

EDIT: I've toned down the edginess by replacing imbecile with cretin.
What a difference!?

Actually it was retard and idiot is a bit tonned down, imo. I even considered getting rid of the whole sentence, but then I've spotted notification with retarded rating from Alienman, red his response and decided to left it Can we end this beautiful display of autism now ?

 

[Alienman]

Hey, you started it. I was just questioning stuff in the video, I didn't know it would upset at least two of you that much. I still believe % would be much better than a circle that looks the same regardless of skill, and where each shot is either a hit or a miss based on a random dice roll.

Actually going through the Retcon Raider play-though again, I don't see any aiming skill indication at all. Seems only weapons, helmets and perks increase your aim.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

, I don't see any aiming skill indication at all. Seems only weapons, helmets and perks increase your aim.

What aiming skill?
Soldiers have only stats for strength, willpower and speed.

 

[Alienman]

That what I mean, I thought it had a aiming skill, since people were talking about improving the aim, but it's only perks...

 

[ArchAngel]

Hey, you started it. I was just questioning stuff in the video, I didn't know it would upset at least two of you that much. I still believe % would be much better than a circle that looks the same regardless of skill, and where each shot is either a hit or a miss based on a random dice roll.

Actually going through the Retcon Raider play-though again, I don't see any aiming skill indication at all. Seems only weapons, helmets and perks increase your aim.

Current version of the game does not have accuracy stat but finished game should have it.
And attacks are not % rolls. Each bullet will travel somewhere inside the blue circle and has 50% chance to travel to somewhere inside the yellow circle. Each bullet has its own calculation and can hit anything in between the gun and the direction it is traveling in. it is not like nuXcom but like UFO.

 

[ArchAngel]

And the game is certainly not dumbed down. It does not have aimed, snap shot, auto shot but it has body part targeting and you can disable body parts and any weapons in them. It also has a stamina stat like UFO as well as willpower stat. Only difference is that you can use willpower to boost how much you can move or attack in one round. So you can even say that it does have snap shot but you need to use your limited resource of willpower to do it instead of reducing your aim like in UFO.

Just like in UFO characters shot start bleeding and losing life unless medkits are used.

Only decline so far is that you cannot drop down to one knee but that is a minor thing (and that happens automatically if you stand next to low cover so that you can use that cover with more effect).

 

[Grotesque]

Current version of the game does not have accuracy stat but finished game should have it.

Then it is weird that not even once was mentioned that the circle area is dependant on the accuracy rating of the soldier. I would've thought that if you aim to make a video on the differences of the aiming mechanics compared to xcom, that would be on the list.



And now for some math time and how "honest" the game pretends to be.

For the shots to have a 50% probabilistic chance to "land" in the yellow circle, the yellow circle area should have 50% of the bigger blue circle.
After some measurements and basic calculations, on the right is how big the yellow circle should really be.

If they can't get even this easy stuff right, what confidence should I have they get the complex systems right behind true RNG or that what they advertise is indeed true at the math level?

 

[ArchAngel]

Current version of the game does not have accuracy stat but finished game should have it.

Then it is weird that not even once was mentioned that the circle area is dependant on the accuracy rating of the soldier. I would've thought that if you aim to make a video on the differences of the aiming mechanics compared to xcom, that would be on the list.



And now for some math time and how "honest" the game pretends to be.

For the shots to have a 50% probabilistic chance to "land" in the yellow circle, the yellow circle area should have 50% of the bigger blue circle.
After some measurements and basic calculations, on the right is how big the yellow circle should really be.

If they can't get even this easy stuff right, what confidence should I have they get the complex systems right behind true RNG or that what they advertise is indeed true at the math level?

It does not have to work like that. That depends on weapon. Maybe the weapon has a real problem shooting straight, in that case 50% will not be perfect 50% but more wide. Or it is very precise weapon and then 50% will be smaller circle.

 

[passerby]

If they can't get even this easy stuff right, what confidence should I have they get the complex systems right behind true RNG or that what they advertise is indeed true at the math level?

Circles represent intersection of bullet spread cones and the screen surface.

They use an unrealistic model where angles at which bullets are shot are spread evenly within the cone, hence diameter for 100% is exactly 2x bigger then for 50%.
Truly realistic model would have a nonlinear distribution taken from empiric data ( Gaussian ? ), where most shots are concentarted closer to the center but there are some outliers around ( random muscle shakes, distractions, bullets with out of tollerance parameters, etc. ).
So realistic model would have even smaller 50% circle not bigger. Then each subsequent shot in the burst mode should have the center of the probability cone randomly kicked around, but the devs don't aim at being a military sim anyway.

What you posted on the other hand is just bullshit with no basis in physics, or math, because diameters are proportional to bullet spread cone angles, not surface areas.
Your picture just represents a failure at understanding and abstracting a high school level physics problem into mathemathics.

This model would shine the most in a realistic 3d environment, with free movement and unit stances.
In super abstract environment alligned to a cube grid, with chest high cover boxes, it's a bit of an overkill, but it's an easy and accurate way of implementing aiming at and hitting individual body parts I guess and they wanted this feature to stand out from other xcom clones.

Random note: The way they first play shooting animations and bullet hits and separately getting hit and damage numbers later is so awkward. They should calculate everything under the hood first and then display it simultaneously.

It does not have to work like that. That depends on weapon. Maybe the weapon has a real problem shooting straight, in that case 50% will not be perfect 50% but more wide. Or it is very precise weapon and then 50% will be smaller circle.

Rather single shots should be more concentrated, while burst and auto modes should be less concentrated to abstract gun being kicked around. Gun accuracy should just scale the circles.

My guess is they will just have an even distribution for all weapons and fire modes, while weapon and eventually unit stats will just scale the circle.
It's a casual game, with no ambition of being a military sim and the only reason they have this at all, is because they wanted individual body parts hitting to stand out from other nuXCOM clones.
No matter the motivation and whether it really adds much in this particullar game, it's still more accurate then any other XCOM clone.